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Old 11-25-13, 02:45 PM   #426
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As another member said...the Palo Alto is more the patient man's Riv than the poor man's Riv. I'm looking forward to building this up - still haven't decided on the bar style yet (last choice). I have both. I haven't liked stache' bars in the past, but I'm thinking I can make it work with a tall enough stem. I was going to go for a 1x build, but I'm leaning more triple crank now. I want a Tubus Airy for the rear, but those things are PRICEY.
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Old 11-26-13, 04:16 AM   #427
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If you're not careful, Waterfords can run you a pretty penny- they're very nice bikes. A friend of mine in the Bay Area lost track of his budget with a Waterford ST14 and it ended up costing him fully as much as a fully decked-out Riv (or a Breadwinner for that matter). He loves it, but it cost him almost as much as his Subaru (granted, he did buy the car used).
Actually if a person wanted a new bike they could get a better deal with Mercian...at least I did, I haven't looked at their prices lately, but with Mercian you can select the tubeset and every option you can think of for the frame.
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Old 11-26-13, 06:10 AM   #428
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Actually a new Hetchins is less expensive as well, if that's your thing.
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Old 11-26-13, 08:01 AM   #429
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Really? I wasn't aware... I've seen a few occasional Mercians hereabouts; they're very beautiful frames. Come to think of it, you can get a full range of options with Gunnar as well.

Although speaking of 'poor man's Rivs' and custom mods, I just received a note the other day from the builder that the modifications (modernizations, actually) on my vintage 650b Panasonic are finally completed. Now I've really got to decide what color(s) to have it painted!

BTW, those Palo Altos are real stunners.
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Old 11-26-13, 08:07 AM   #430
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My latest PMR (which applies to nearly all of my bikes) is an early model Gunnar Crosshairs that I plan to use mainly for commuting. I bought the frame and fork for a good price and swapped parts from another bike, a Gunnar Sport, because I prefer the canti brakes and clearance for larger tires on the cross frame. As a tribute to Rivendell, I installed some Ruffy Tuffy tires on it. Not sure if I am going to install permanent fenders or not since I have some SKS Raceblades that I can use as needed.
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Old 11-26-13, 08:32 AM   #431
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Aaron, you know you don't like upright bars. Why are you considering them here?
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Old 11-26-13, 09:23 AM   #432
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Aaron, you know you don't like upright bars. Why are you considering them here?
This is a great question...because I want to see if changing the fit and position of the bars will alter my view and because I'm a little bored. I think it MIGHT work with a longer stem that got the bars out a little further. I also realized that I generally have only used bars like that on bikes i haven't liked...it might be different on a frame and build that suits my preferences. I don't hate the uprights on my triplet and that bike hasn't really killed my back...but I also don't grind away with that bike. The concept here was as more of a city bike that I'd take it a little easier on.

I guess it's really sort of an experiment, and I can always switch to drops again if I don't like the result. I'll tell you Tom - I absolutely LOVE the dirt drop style bars...I think they might be my favorite. I like the angle of the hoods and I like having the drops flared...I find that I use the drops more with that style.
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Old 11-27-13, 03:48 PM   #433
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Very good reasoning, Aaron. It could be that you haven't set up upright bars in a way that work for you except on the triplet. I really do like semi-upright bars for city riding. I can look around more easily, and since I can look around more easily, I do look around more often.
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Old 11-29-13, 11:03 AM   #434
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Actually a new Hetchins is less expensive as well, if that's your thing.
Just how expensive are we talking here?


http://www.hetchins.com/mo-ultra-01.htm
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Old 11-29-13, 11:07 AM   #435
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It varies a little with exchange rates, and it's not remotely a similar product to a Riv. That said, I recall a new Magnum Opus running about 1500ish. I was heavily considering one, but decided to go with my Marnati instead.
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Old 11-29-13, 01:01 PM   #436
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I recently finished this build, my "poor-man's rivendell" - a late 70s/early 80s Palo Alto branded tourer made by Biemmezeta with columbus tubing in Italy. It still needs its racks, and possibly different handlebars, but I'm almost finished (are we ever finished?).

Wow, that is just beautiful. May I ask what tires those are?
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Old 11-29-13, 01:40 PM   #437
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Here's my version of the "PMR", a 1977 Centurion Semi-Professional:



And this one, in a different vein:

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Old 11-29-13, 04:39 PM   #438
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Wow, that is just beautiful. May I ask what tires those are?
Thanks! Those are actually the only true Rivendell on the bike... they are the Jack Brown greens. I've been very happy with them. They ride well, look great, and right now I'm able to keep them around 65psi to handle the icy roads.
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Old 12-11-13, 08:14 PM   #439
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The only problem is that I can't fit a fender between the tire and brake, and because the brakes are centre pull, the bridging brackets I've seen for split fenders might not work either. I've been trying to come up with an elegant workaround, but haven't really figured it out yet.
Can't just use a longer straddle cable, to give you more clearance?
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Old 12-11-13, 08:20 PM   #440
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I thought the bar made a lot of sense the first time I saw it and in fact, had envisioned something very similar in the past.


Who makes that handlebar?

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Old 12-12-13, 06:14 AM   #441
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Who makes that handlebar?
Velo Orange. They just went on sale in the last week or two.
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Old 12-12-13, 08:25 AM   #442
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Velo Orange. They just went on sale in the last week or two.
And out of stock already!

Buy them here (or at your LBS) when they're back in stock. $60. They call it Casey's Crazy Bar. I'd love to try one. I imagined one myself, and now it exists.
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Old 12-12-13, 10:43 AM   #443
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And out of stock already!

Buy them here (or at your LBS) when they're back in stock. $60. They call it Casey's Crazy Bar. I'd love to try one. I imagined one myself, and now it exists.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the 45 degree sweep. I've tried Nitto Albatross bars, which are closer to 90 degree sweep, and absolutely hated them. A straight bar with no sweep is equally uncomfortable. The bar I keep going back to (even though it's black and all my other components are silver) has 10 degrees of sweep, which is pretty comfortable for me.
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Old 12-12-13, 11:07 AM   #444
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Corwin, I also hate 0 sweep, and I expect I would hate 90 sweep as you do. I've had 10 sweep and whatever North Roads are, and I liked them both. I suspect North Roads and these bars have similar sweep angles. So if you're like me, you and I would probably like them.
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Old 12-16-13, 10:14 AM   #445
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Can't just use a longer straddle cable, to give you more clearance?
Hmmm... never thought of that. I guess I'm reluctant to do much given the bike is so new. After the first major repair or when it's deemed sufficiently old, I'll start monkeying around with it more and more! I'm so vain...
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Old 12-16-13, 11:24 AM   #446
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Can't just use a longer straddle cable, to give you more clearance?
You can't just change the straddle cable to a longer cable just because you need clearance. That cable is there to give the brakes a certain degree of mechanical advantage so that the brakes can be applied fairly easily without losing braking efficiency. If you install a longer cable you "could" run into a problem with applying the brakes and not having any brakes unless you squeeze the brakes really hard, the result of the longer cable is called having too little mechanical advantage, and there is a very small margin in this respect one way or the other beyond what the original brake spec'd that cable size for.

I forget, but there is about 5 to 6 different lengths of these cables available, the most you could do is go up one size longer than the factory spec'd and then you would still have to road test the bike real well to make sure the bike will stop fast and the amount of force to do so is not objectionable.
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Old 12-16-13, 04:38 PM   #447
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You can't just change the straddle cable to a longer cable just because you need clearance. That cable is there to give the brakes a certain degree of mechanical advantage so that the brakes can be applied fairly easily without losing braking efficiency. If you install a longer cable you "could" run into a problem with applying the brakes and not having any brakes unless you squeeze the brakes really hard, the result of the longer cable is called having too little mechanical advantage, and there is a very small margin in this respect one way or the other beyond what the original brake spec'd that cable size for.

I forget, but there is about 5 to 6 different lengths of these cables available, the most you could do is go up one size longer than the factory spec'd and then you would still have to road test the bike real well to make sure the bike will stop fast and the amount of force to do so is not objectionable.
Other than the cable would be longer, nothing is changed. The brake sees the same force. The cable is longer so there could be a very small amount of cable stretch, but it is too small to be felt. You are lifting the brake handle the same amount. That upward force stays the same. The lever arm is still the same (center of brakes to the arm of brake). If it would give you enough clearance for the fender, go for it.

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Old 12-16-13, 05:05 PM   #448
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Other than the cable would be longer, nothing is changed. The brake sees the same force. The cable is longer so there could be a very small amount of cable stretch, but it is too small to be felt. You are lifting the brake handle the same amount. That upward force stays the same. The lever arm is still the same (center of brakes to the arm of brake). If it would give you enough clearance for the fender, go for it.
I'm sorry but from what I know about my brakes that isn't true, so I had to do some research to find the answer, I think I have it here: http://sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html And here: www.sutherlandsbicycle.com/Chapter11.pdf‎ (you have to look this up since I can't post a PDF file, but see chapter 11 page 11
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Old 12-16-13, 05:10 PM   #449
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Take a look at the Jones Loop Bar. Feels very natural, and offers several different hand positions.

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Old 12-16-13, 07:30 PM   #450
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That bike is extremely cool...love the bars, design - everything.
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