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Old 03-26-10, 07:06 PM   #51
sonatageek
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I am the friend and I was thinking about the possibility of retrofitting the light and using it and the fenders on a mixte frame that is waiting in the wings.

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Take that back about those fenders and lights, or else send them to me. I think they look pretty sweet, and it's hard to find lights that look half decent any more.
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Old 03-26-10, 07:11 PM   #52
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The Schwinn is as bought -- can't wait to see it in person.

This is the other vintage touring bike I have that I feel would also make a nice poor man's riv.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 03-26-10, 08:32 PM   #53
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test
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Old 03-27-10, 03:04 PM   #54
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Old 03-27-10, 04:54 PM   #55
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I don't consider the Surly a clone of Rivendell because the Surly is not lugged thus not as artistic. If your going to call the Surly a clone then hell you might as well call the Trek 520 an even cheaper clone! If you want the artistry and the old world workmanship and frame quality of a Rivendell and the Mercian would be the next logical choice. There may be less expensive handmade lugged high quality frames but you would be hard pressed to find one that exceeds the Mercian for the price with the exception being maybe Waterford. Unfortunately the current exchange rate for English pounds into dollars makes the bike a little more expensive then when I bought my Mercian 3 years ago.

If you go to the Rivendell site they do sell other "house" brands for less then the Rivendell and are close to the same quality. Waterford is another great frame that may also interest you, but neither the Waterford or the Rivendell house brands have the old world workmanship...but they are excellent frames.
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Old 03-27-10, 04:59 PM   #56
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I'm sorry, but there is no way on God's Earth that I would pay that kind of insane money for a retro-styled bike when I can buy a used vintage steel bike for a fraction of the price. Heck - I wouldn't trade you any of my older steel frames even up for a Rivendell and I certainly haven't paid that kind of money for any of them.

I respect Rivendell, but I think they're targeting people with so much money that they don't have to care about logic or value. I don't have those kinds of resources, and even if I did, I wouldn't be able to bring myself to buy a Rivendell. For that money, I'm going to spend just a bit more and get a custom built frame.
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Old 03-27-10, 10:44 PM   #57
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For that money, I'm going to spend just a bit more and get a custom built frame.
Actually I got a new custom handbuilt bike for less then the Rivendell from Mercian. I even got to choose the lugs which I wanted long spearpoint lugs, Rivendell just has their standard one style of lug. I even got to chose sloping or flat crown fork and I got flat which comes with Rivendell but no choice with Rivendell; I even got to chose the tubeset 853 while at Rivendell they mix and match but won't tell you what they chose or from whom because to them it's not important as long as it works? I even was able to have 4 sets of water bottle bosses that Rivendell could not do; chose my paint color that Rivendell could do but wanted extra if you chose a non standard color; added pump peg, chain peg, cable guides, lamp boss, chrome work and other stuff that none of which Rivendell will do.

So at least with Mercian you get a true and real custom made bike made to order for less then a Rivendell.
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Old 03-28-10, 09:03 AM   #58
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Awesome. I have a '91 that I bought this summer for $1.
214k miles. It's been to Maine, camping on the Housatonic and to Summer festivals, as well as running a hardcore 75mph
I95 commute when I can't ride my bike.




It's hard to justify putting big bucks into a bike when A. you're poor enough to be driving a $1 car, and B. in any situation where your bike will cost many times what your car did....

So here's my $40 Rivendell substitute.

I wouldn't call it poor I would call it spending wise. I bought mine to replace a 454 Suburban for general family hauling and bike hauling. I can stand all buy that T700 up in it without taking the wheel off. Bars are jut a little to tall to clear the roof. LOVE how it handles.
Sad part is eventually I need to find another vehicle to pull our 1959 Airstream once we get it restored Even with my Supercharged version it just doesn't have the motor to handle a 22ft camper. The 454 Burb was over kill and I sure don't miss the 8mpg city it gets on 10%ethanol gas is why we dumped it. The camper is light enough that some 6 cylinders vehicles could handle it. Might replace they 86 4Runner with a 93-97 Land Cruiser when the time comes. Course you can buy early 90's1/2 ton burbs all day long for $1500.

My BIL is in New Haven. Works at Electric boat. We may try to go visit him this summer and I plan to bring a bike. I'll have to drop you a line and you can show me around the area.
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Old 03-28-10, 10:11 AM   #59
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http://www.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com/

http://www.bgcycles.com/BasicLoadedTouring.html
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Old 03-28-10, 11:24 AM   #60
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Try to find a 1980's era 12 speed bike and update it. My $170 1978 Trek 400d Elance has a modern Ultegra 20 speed drivetrain and modern Mavic Open Pro wheel-set.





On New Years day I found a very clean 1987 Trek 400d Elance on CL. The bike has a Reynolds 531 main triangle, 700c wheel-set, and room for 700x28 tires and fenders. This bike would make an ideal commuter and rain bike.

I've had an extra Ultegra 10 speed drivetrain sitting around for a while. This included the FD, RD, 11-25 cassette, a new 105 chain, along with a Sram 46 & 38t Cyclocross Crankset & BB. I also had a Mavic Open Pro W/ 36 spoke Dura Ace hub rear wheel I purchased on eBay last year. With most of a 2x10 upgrade on-hand, I converted the bike.

I found new Dura Ace 10 speed bar-end shifters from Nashbar for $50 and purchased a 32 spoke 105 hub for $15. I had the bike shop source a matching 32 spoke Open Pro rim & spokes, the new front wheel cost about $150 in total. The bike shop stripped the bike of all parts, applied Framesaver and rebuilt the bike for $225 in labor. I have about $750 in the bike at this point. Not cheap, but the result is excellent, IMO.

The bike is 22 lbs with the Brooks seat. Mechanically, the bike gets an A+. The frame is responsive, stable and fun to ride. Much smoother riding than a modern Aluminum bike. The drivetrain is quick shifting and the gear set with 46 & 38t chainrings and a 11-25 10 speed cassette has a tight range. I can travel at any speed from 10 to 33 mph and always maintain my target cadence of 85 to 100 rpm

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Old 03-29-10, 11:19 PM   #61
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i like the handsome devil http://www.handsomecycles.com/index.php?id=8

takes cues from the xo-1, i want one.

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Old 03-29-10, 11:30 PM   #62
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Barrett...I don't normally care much for Treks, but that's a beauty...and a very classy build.
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Old 03-31-10, 10:51 PM   #63
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Poor man's Rivendell = Early 70's Raleigh Reynolds 531 Frame. I have 3 1973 Raleigh Competitions and they all ride as well as comfortably (not as fast, mind you) as my Tom Kellogg Ti Spectrum.
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Old 04-01-10, 08:37 AM   #64
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I'm sorry, I just don't see why so many folks go ga-ga over the typical lugs. While I think that aesthetically they're often better TIG-welds, I really like the clean look of Fillet Brazing or internal lugs much more.

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Old 04-01-10, 09:29 AM   #65
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I'm sorry, I just don't see why so many folks go ga-ga over the typical lugs. While I think that aesthetically they're often better TIG-welds, I really like the clean look of Fillet Brazing or internal lugs much more.
+1

I love that clean look.
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Old 04-01-10, 02:21 PM   #66
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I'm sorry, I just don't see why so many folks go ga-ga over the typical lugs. While I think that aesthetically they're often better TIG-welds, I really like the clean look of Fillet Brazing or internal lugs much more.

I agree about some of the entry level bikes lugs or some of the roughly filed ones. There is something to very nicely filed lugs though that can be very very attractive.
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Old 04-01-10, 08:10 PM   #67
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I'm sorry, I just don't see why so many folks go ga-ga over the typical lugs. While I think that aesthetically they're often better TIG-welds, I really like the clean look of Fillet Brazing or internal lugs much more.

Personally I don't see why people get ga ga over such a plain looking way to assemble a frame vs lugs that expresses much more artsy craftsmanship look. But that's why we're all individuals with different taste.
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Old 04-03-10, 08:20 PM   #68
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I bought a Schwinn Super Sport DBX last year. I'd have loved to get the Rivendell Atlantis as my "country bike" but it was out of my price range. But I'm happy to have a commuter bike that will serve me just as well in the years to come.
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Old 04-04-10, 06:07 AM   #69
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Personally I don't see why people get ga ga over such a plain looking way to assemble a frame vs lugs that expresses much more artsy craftsmanship look. But that's why we're all individuals with different taste.
I don't really go ga-ga over any particular way of joining tubes, - but I do have my preference. I could also argue to do a good job using fillet brazing or internal lugs requires more craftsmanship than standard lugs. My real reason for the initial post though was to say that in my opinion fancy lugs aren't worth breaking that bank for if that's part of what makes a Riv appealing to you. It's just another way of joining two tubes together. It's one that we've been conditioned to associate with classic bikes because back in the day it was the cheap and easy way to do it. Some pretty non-remarkable bikes used the same method. If you're looking for artistic flourish then I think having a custom head badge made would save you a lot of money and make the bike truly unique.

Somewhere on the Rivendell site it talks about lugs vs TIG welds and says that the Riv lugs are designed by them and won't be found on any other bikes. So that in 40 years or whatever the bike can be still be identified as a Riv regardless of what happens to the paint or the head badge. To me that's trying to sell you based on the name rather than on the virtues of the bike itself.

Anyway, if it's not a big deal to you to drop a couple grand or more on a bike and you find a Riv appealing, by all means get one. They're nice bikes. But there are plenty of bikes that will serve you just as well for 1/2 the price. They may not have fancy lugs but in my opinion, lugs alone do not add much if any appeal to a Rivendell.

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Old 04-04-10, 05:28 PM   #70
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I don't really go ga-ga over any particular way of joining tubes, - but I do have my preference. I could also argue to do a good job using fillet brazing or internal lugs requires more craftsmanship than standard lugs. My real reason for the initial post though was to say that in my opinion fancy lugs aren't worth breaking that bank for if that's part of what makes a Riv appealing to you. It's just another way of joining two tubes together. It's one that we've been conditioned to associate with classic bikes because back in the day it was the cheap and easy way to do it. Some pretty non-remarkable bikes used the same method. If you're looking for artistic flourish then I think having a custom head badge made would save you a lot of money and make the bike truly unique.

Somewhere on the Rivendell site it talks about lugs vs TIG welds and says that the Riv lugs are designed by them and won't be found on any other bikes. So that in 40 years or whatever the bike can be still be identified as a Riv regardless of what happens to the paint or the head badge. To me that's trying to sell you based on the name rather than on the virtues of the bike itself.

Anyway, if it's not a big deal to you to drop a couple grand or more on a bike and you find a Riv appealing, by all means get one. They're nice bikes. But there are plenty of bikes that will serve you just as well for 1/2 the price. They may not have fancy lugs but in my opinion, lugs alone do not add much if any appeal to a Rivendell.
I think the key point here is that whether I like lugs or not, I can find a great bike for a heck of a lot cheaper than a Rivendell. I just bought a Velosolex L'Etoile for under $100...it's Reynolds 531, takes a 28mm tire and fenders (barely), has beautiful long point lugs and Nervex on the fork crown and a mix of Campagnolo, Suntour Superbe and Shimano Crane. Even if I spend the money to modernize it abd have the paint restored, I'm still going to end up with a bike that Peterson is emulating for a fraction of the cost.
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Old 04-04-10, 05:34 PM   #71
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I built my Surly Cross-Check in the Rivendell likeness after I saw a sweet Hillsborne
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Old 04-04-10, 06:25 PM   #72
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/shrug.

When you buy a Rivendell you're buying a quality bike, made in a civilized society by men making decent money. Also, they're pretty and they work well. They are good value for what you're getting, if these things are important to you. If they aren't, or you don't have the money, buy something welded in Taiwan. As to the quality of the bike, it doesn't matter so much really. The Taiwanese weld very well. Also, you have to like lugs. If you don't, you're buying the wrong bike. This is the kind of thing that should be so painfully obvious as to insult the reader to have to point out, but after reading some of these posts I guess someone has to. The benefits of lugs? There used to be a lot of benefits. But technology moved on, and now they're just pretty. That's it.

Comparing a nice new bike to a used bike that may or may not be nice is a bit dense, really. Anyone who has ever dealt with the used bike market knows that the prices are mostly nonsensical. You can spend $150 on a two year old WalMart bike or the same on a 531 framed Italian masterpiece. There are lots of reasons why this is, but none of them make a nice new bike worth any less.

And if you think Rivendell is trying to sell bikes based on the name, it's your reading comprehension that's lacking, not the bikes.
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Old 04-04-10, 07:54 PM   #73
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if you think Rivendell is trying to sell bikes based on the name, it's your reading comprehension that's lacking, not the bikes.
They are selling bikes based on the name. They discontinued the popular Bleriot model because some shops were offering it for below the MRSP - and Riv didn't want to tarnish their image with a "cheap" bike. So they canceled their deal with QBP (the distributor for the shops) and sat on top of the remaining stock, offering the remnants at "classy" prices.

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I got tired of too many dealers de-dignifying it as a loss leader, and so
I'm just pulling the plug on the whole Bleriot program.
De-dignifying? Like a bicycle is a person and can hold dignity? Silly, but I guess it makes him think his bicycles are more special...
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Old 04-05-10, 05:55 AM   #74
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And if you think Rivendell is trying to sell bikes based on the name, it's your reading comprehension that's lacking, not the bikes.
I was referring specifically to their reasons for using custom lugs. According to them, one reason they use lugs they designed themselves (or someone designed for them) is so that decades from now the bikes can still be uniquely identified as Rivendells. I wish I could find the section on their site that talks about TIG welds vs. Lugs but that's pretty much what it says. It doesn't say anything about their lugs being better or even prettier than what can be found off the rack.

The message they're trying to convey is that you're buying something long lasting and "special" but to me it's about branding. I don't see my interpretation as a reading comprehension problem so much as being able to read between the lines.

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Old 04-05-10, 07:41 AM   #75
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/shrug.

When you buy a Rivendell you're buying a quality bike, made in a civilized society by men making decent money. Also, they're pretty and they work well. They are good value for what you're getting, if these things are important to you. If they aren't, or you don't have the money, buy something welded in Taiwan. As to the quality of the bike, it doesn't matter so much really. The Taiwanese weld very well. Also, you have to like lugs. If you don't, you're buying the wrong bike. This is the kind of thing that should be so painfully obvious as to insult the reader to have to point out, but after reading some of these posts I guess someone has to. The benefits of lugs? There used to be a lot of benefits. But technology moved on, and now they're just pretty. That's it.

Comparing a nice new bike to a used bike that may or may not be nice is a bit dense, really. Anyone who has ever dealt with the used bike market knows that the prices are mostly nonsensical. You can spend $150 on a two year old WalMart bike or the same on a 531 framed Italian masterpiece. There are lots of reasons why this is, but none of them make a nice new bike worth any less.

And if you think Rivendell is trying to sell bikes based on the name, it's your reading comprehension that's lacking, not the bikes.
This post has an interesting point or two, but overall totally misses the mark...

There are lots of made in America custom frames that can be had for the same price as a Rivendell. Buying that way gives you a bike that you've specifically designed for you. Why would you buy a Rivendell? Please xplain to me how these are "pretty and good value" when I can have a bike designed for the same price with a paint scheme exactly as I choose it? Are his propietary lugs worth that much?

Would you voluntarily pay 20x standard pricing for a made in the US TV? I would not.

Regardless of how the used market fluctuates, the entire ethos that GP preaches is based on reproducing an older style of bike...why buy a new one? You can outfit and adjust a steel frame for new components (one of the advantages of steel is the ability to respace it) if you are at all patient and willing to look. If Rivendell's marketing preaches that steel lasts, the obvious follow through question is why buy new?

Based on Rivendell's own logic, there is no reason to buy a Rivendell when you can get an 80s touring bike for $500 or less and pay comparatively little to make it as new. The used market absolutely is related to the new market...and vice versa. It's you who is a bit dense if you think those markets don't relate to one another. There also aren't a lot of $150 Italian master pieces being sold.
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