1987cp

I would be very interested to know how its ride compares to an Atlantis - or more likely in my mind, a Sam Hillborne.

Nice build, looks a lot like my bike.


Reminds me, I'm not sure I have recent pictures of my Alyeska in toddler-toting mode ....

rekmeyata

It would be rare to find someone who has ridden both the Raleigh, Atlantis and or the Sam Hillborne, but according to the internet (not the Rivendell site reviews) the Atlantis seems to be favored over the Sam, but that's probably due to people who would go to Rivendell to get a bike have more disposable income and would lean more towards the more expensive Atlantis. Do keep in mind that the Sam pricing hasn't been updated since 2012 on the Rivendell site so I doubt seriously that is still the price. Having said all of that I seriously doubt the Atlantis is worth another $1000 more than the Sam. I also don't think the build kit that Rivendell offers is all that great, they use to have nicer build kits but I think they're struggling with over building and customers not wanting to pay more and losing sales so they toned down the build kit in an attempt to get more customers.

I also think that any quality vintage lugged steel touring bike will have a similar feel to what the Atlantis and Sam have, so if you being new or used doesn't matter to you then save a boatload of cash and get a vintage bike. You can always upgrade a vintage bike to suit your needs and still be far under the cost of a new bike. My main touring bike is an 85 Schwinn Le Tour Luxe that I ride in it's stock form because it was so well equipped from the factory there isn't any need to change anything except converting from downtube shifters to barend, but so far I haven't had the need to do that.

If you really prefer a new bike and lugged steel is not a big priority there is a the Kona Sutra which comes with a slightly better build kit than the Sam but with 700c wheels instead of 26, but comes fully ready to tour with racks front and rear plus fenders front and rear. The Kona fully equipped cost about as much as just the build kit for the Sam! But of course it doesn't have the wow look factor of the Sam. See: KONA BIKES | 2014 BIKES | ROAD: FREERANGE | SUTRA

Ozonation

A lot of people compare the Sam to a Surly LHT or other similar touring style bike, but I don't think that's actually all that accurate. Even when you compare the geometry of the Sam to others, it doesn't quite match.

When I picked up my Sam, the dealer (one of the few that actually carried Rivendell - not sure if he still does) indicated that the Sam would probably be good for "short tours" but not extended ones. Even one of my friends who's into racing thought he could go pretty fast on the Sam when he tried it out. The Sam is described by Rivendell as a "country bike" - go anywhere, do anything - within some reasonable limits. The closest I can describe it is some sort of a like a roadish style hybrid, with some gravel grinding and touring thrown in - I guess country bike is pretty accurate.

As for build kit quality... honestly, I don't have much to compare it to: all I can say is that it rides nice and smooth.

irwin7638

I haven't ridden an Atlantis but the weight and geometry of the Sam is different. The Sam is more like a lightweight Hunqapillar. That's why I bought one. I had an LHT, then when I had some "extra" money I upgraded the frame with the Hunqapillar. The Hunq handles a lot differently than the LHT and I love that so much I wanted a lighter, faster version, so I bought a Sam. The Sam is my choice for metric centuries, I just did one last weekend, did 64 miles with 4 hours in the saddle. I don't really try. A faster rider with ambition could easily push Sam over 20MPH. Comparing it to a hybrid is pretty accurate, it's fast enough to be fun, durable enough to ride on anything but single track, and comfortable enough to ride all day.

Marc

rekmeyata

I agree with this, neither the Atlantis, Sam or even the Rivendell are not really made for heavy long distance type of expedition touring, if you want that kind of bike you need to look at the Koga Miyata World Traveler, Bruce Gordon Rock N Roll Tour EX, or the Thorn Raven. However in todays world camping gear is getting lighter all the time, and to have a bike the caliper of the Koga Miyata, Bruce Gordon, or the Thorn is an overkill for a huge percentage of tourers, unless they simply want the best and price is no object. I still think though that for most people the Kona Sutra would serve any person wanting to tourer for an extended time perfectly fine.

m3rle

Here's another shot of my Poor Man's Riv

1990 StumpJumper Comp



1988 Novara Aspen (REI)

ItsTimeToBike

Agree - Stumpy 1990's era ad poor man's R'dale - nice work. I have my sights o one for that purpose as well.

Ozonation

Marc... what fenders and what handle bar do you have on your Hunqapillar? I also have Big Bens on my Hunqapillar, but I found there was too little clearance for almost all fenders I tried. Also, did you have a second set of brake levers installed on your handlebars? I ended up getting Albatross bar on my Hunqapillar... not sure if I really want to stay with them, but they're growing on me...

And what's going on with the handlebar on your Sam? Cool! I'd love to see bigger pictures.

irwin7638

Those are SKS Velo 55 fenders on the Hunq and Bosco Bars on both bikes. I used the Bullmoose version on the Hunq. I'm sending you a PM.

Marc

RJM

Before I owned a Rivendell, I turned my 2000 Jamis Aurora into a poor man's Rivendell. I could get 32s on it with a set of fenders, canti brakes, mustache bar with dirt drop stem, brooks saddle, I used downtube silver shifters. All in all, it was a very nice riding bike but the wheels I was using (the original sora hub some cheap rimmed wheels that came with the Aurora) started breaking spokes and developed cracks. I still have the frame and have often thought of turning it into a nice commuter...maybe in the future.


I decided to buy a Riv and waited until the right deal came by. At this time Riv had "memberships," not sure if they do that anymore, but I would get emails with member deals in them and along came an 650b orange 48cm Sam Hillborne frameset with canti brake bosses for 800 bucks. I jumped at the deal and am glad I did.

The bike is awesome. Here is a recent picture, soon to be changed to a set of albatross bars. I used it for two years as a sort of "go fast" bike but now it permanently has racks and bags.

Medic Zero

I'm running Big Bens too (the 2.15" version), I went with 65mm wide SKS fenders and wouldn't want to go any smaller.

1987cp

Here's the poor boy's (or girl's) kiddie Riv - a cheapie from Sears' Free Spirit brand from the late '80s, complete with steel rims and cranks and the Falcon friction shifters you can still get new. I don't recall being aware of these when they were new, but then, I was 7 and my parents were confident my new Schwinn Predator was the bee's knees. I saw this on Fleabay and, never having been aware of anything quite like it, snapped it up almost instantly for my son, who seems to be loving it to bits. Despite the cosmetic dings, it arrived in rideable condition - mostly all it needs is a front derailer cable (which can wait) and front hub service (which probably shouldn't).

This may be the first bike where I've honestly worried about the possibility of someone stealing it ....

ItsTimeToBike

good for you for continuing the appreciation of touring to your son. Looks like it can carry some gear too.

1987cp

Thanks! I've never actually been on a bicycle tour - but touring bikes are great for running errands in town, which is how we get our cycling in.

Come to think of it, I just might have chosen one of these over my Predator if I'd been aware of the option at the time ... but they really wanted to get me a Schwinn, which I don't think was doing this sort of thing in 1987.

corwin1968

This may be the ultimate poor man's Rivendell for me. The RBW bike that really does it for me is the 26" version of the Atlantis and this particular size Stumpjumper and Rockhopper from the early 90's is a fairly close approximation. I just built up a Rockhopper that is one size smaller and I'm loving it. I would love to find the larger size, primarily just for aesthetic purposes. My current Rockhopper has a lot of seatpost and stem/riser handlebar showing.

Marc40a

I commute on an Aurora and just picked up a used Sam as well. May I ask what tires (paselas? 35mm?) and bar tape you're running on you're Sam in that pic?

I haven't put any racks or bags on mine yet, but I don't know how much longer I can hold out. They're so useful.

RJM

The tires are Fatty Rumpkins. I'm doing a bit more off road and fire trail riding with this bike now so the Fatty Rumpkins are kind of ideal for it. They seem to grip really well on the pavement and on the loose stuff but they are noticeably slower on the pavement than the Pari Motos I used to ride with. I think these are 42mm wide, if I remember correctly. I've thought about replacing these with Compass tires or Hetres.

The bartape is white Newbaums cloth tape that I have shellacked with amber shellack. The sam is a great bike, have fun with it.

cs1

I like the cruiser fenders on the second bike.

blakcloud

I can't answer for Marc but on my Sam, I have Gran Bois Hetres 42 mm with SKS Longboard fenders and everything fits fine (650b size).

m3rle

thanks. i like the chrome fenders on there too. they are from a 60's 3-speed as are the steel north road bars. running 26 x 1.5 tires.

icepick_trotsky 

What about the Velo Orange Polyvalent? It's lower trail, designed for 650B, and has room for some pretty large tires and fenders. I've thought about getting one until my Rivendell dreams come true.

corwin1968

I finally got to my ultimate poor man's Rivendell. After this, it's either going to be a 26" Surly LHT or custom frameset.

This is a 700c Trek Multitrack that I've converted to 26" wheels. I suspect this is as close as you can get to an Atlantis (other than MAYBE a 26" LHT) without spending a bundle of money.

Top-tube 57 (Trek)/57 (Atlantis)
Head tube 71.5 (Trek)/72 (Atlantis)
Fork rake 41 (Trek)/40 (Atlantis)
Chainstays 43cm (Trek)/44cm (Atlantis)
BB drop 60mm (Trek)/48mm (Atlantis)

The key attributes that set my 730 apart from a typical vintage MTB is the shorter top-tube and the much lower bottom bracket (which is a big deal for Rivendell bikes). This particular combination is pretty much only found in specialized touring bikes like the Atlantis, Co-Motion Pangea, R&E UTB, Thorn and a few others. The 26" LHT is damn close to my size Atlantis in it's geometry. My big decision is whether to buy the LHT in near future or a Pangea or UTB in the more distant future.

Medic Zero

Great post!

What years do the 730's have that geometry?

And what brakes did you use?

corwin1968

Thanks!

Mine is a 1995 model and I think there were several years that had this geometry. The later 90's model Multitracks had chainstays lengthened to 44.5cm and the fork rake increased to 50mm, which gives them a road bike trail measurement (60mm with 55mm tires) versus the Atlantis' MTB trail measurement (68mm with 55mm tires). The 1995 Trek 720 and 700 even had different geometry from the 730 and 750, having much higher bottom brackets, with a lower one being the key to making my 730 feel so good.

Brakes, of course, are a major problem on a conversion like this. I struggled with different ideas on how to overcome it and finally ended up with a 1992 Rockhopper frameset (bought for a different purpose...not for a fork) that had the same length fork as my Trek and had a steerer tube that, even though it was longer, I was able to use it with about a cm of spacers. I stuck a simple V-brake on there and right now, the rear has no brake. Dimension makes 26" forks, both threaded and threadless, that could be used for this purpose as well.

If I decide to buy a LHT frameset, I'll just ride this bike like this for the few months it takes me to raise the funds. I'll probably never leave the subdivision, especially with colder weather getting here. If I decide to buy a Pangea or R&E UTB, I will consider having the cant studs on the rear moved so a 26" brake will work. It will probably take me a year or more to raise the funds for a custom frameset.

The key to making this work is to commit to really fat tires. In the initial stages of my 26" experiment, I wanted to buy the Compass 26" tires (upgraded Paselas) but I wouldn't be comfortable with the BB height of this bike with those tires. BB drop is surprisingly difficult to measure consistently and accurately but the most common direct measurement I've gotten is 60mm and the whole (radius + tire width) - BB height equaled 60mm. Even Rivendell 26" bikes have BB drops much less than that and Grant is known for preferring a lot of drop! The closest bike I've found is the Co-Motion Pangea, with 55mm of drop. They list a BB height of 26.8cm on that bike and I calculated that out to be with a 38mm tire. My BB height with 55mm Big Apples is in the mid-to-upper 27 cm range.

I've been riding this bike for close to a week and I feel like I'm part of the bike when I'm riding it. It's more like sitting in a car. Yesterday, I got back on my 700c bike, with 70mm of BB drop, which is standard for road bikes, and I felt like I was sitting on top of a house! It was a completely different and unpleasant feeling! I've been ambiguous about BB height, leaning toward it not making much difference, but after riding three MTB's with high BB's, my newer bike with a medium-to-lower BB height and this 730 with a low BB, I'm sold on the idea. Grant alludes to the fact that you are lower to the ground but it also changes your position relative to the handlebars and they end up being much higher with the same amount of stem showing. A low BB is now a must-have for me and is the primary reason the Pangea has jumped to the top of my list and I'm a bit ambivalent about the LHT with it's 48mm of drop.

Marc40a

Corwin, what size is your 730?

What size cranks are you running?