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-   -   What is the Poor Man's Rivendell? (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/631114-what-poor-mans-rivendell.html)

ddez 06-05-10 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetLou (Post 10892952)
That would depend on what you mean by bicycle. If you mean the complete bike, then the parts do come from all over. If you mean the frame, then that would not be true. Some of their frames are made overseas and some are made here. Their custom frames are made by Mark Nobilette and their more expensive frames are made by Waterford, in Wisconsin.

As for a poor man's Rivendell, I haven't found anything. I have not seen such relaxed geometries on any newer bike. For example, a 48 Sam Hilborne has a 71.5 seattube angle. The closest I've seen is my Miyata that has a something around a 72 degree angle. That is rare for bikes and especially rare for smaller frames. Today, it would be hard to find a 50cm bike with anything less than a 74.5 degree seattube angle. Specialized doesn't make anything less than a 75.5 seattube angle for their small bikes. This is just way too steep for my comfort. Even the Surly LHT 50cm frame with 26" wheels has a 74 degree angle.

I am much more comfortable on a Rivendell designed frame than anything else I've tried, a close second is my Miyata and Trek 520.

Actually the surly LHT 60 cm is 72.5 and the Trek520 is 73.5. The smaller frame LHT you mention is the same on the smaller 520.

ddez 06-05-10 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetLou (Post 10892952)
That would depend on what you mean by bicycle. If you mean the complete bike, then the parts do come from all over. If you mean the frame, then that would not be true. Some of their frames are made overseas and some are made here. Their custom frames are made by Mark Nobilette and their more expensive frames are made by Waterford, in Wisconsin.

As for a poor man's Rivendell, I haven't found anything. I have not seen such relaxed geometries on any newer bike. For example, a 48 Sam Hilborne has a 71.5 seattube angle. The closest I've seen is my Miyata that has a something around a 72 degree angle. That is rare for bikes and especially rare for smaller frames. Today, it would be hard to find a 50cm bike with anything less than a 74.5 degree seattube angle. Specialized doesn't make anything less than a 75.5 seattube angle for their small bikes. This is just way too steep for my comfort. Even the Surly LHT 50cm frame with 26" wheels has a 74 degree angle.

I am much more comfortable on a Rivendell designed frame than anything else I've tried, a close second is my Miyata and Trek 520.

Actually the surly LHT 60 cm is 72.5 and the Trek520 in larger size is 73.5. The smaller frame LHT you mention is the same as the smaller frame 520.
Im not looking to really correct you as much as just not having misinfo out there that people who dont check will pickup on.
The Miyata and the 520 are fine bikes but so is the LHT. And of course it goes without saying for the Riv's.

SweetLou 06-05-10 11:17 PM

ddez, you are not correcting me. Read what I wrote. I did not mention the 60cm bicycle. I mentioned the 50cm LHT. I don't know about the newer Trek 520's, I haven't checked. I am talking about my 520 in a 19" frame. It has a 72.7 degree seat tube angle. According to Surly, their 50cm frame has a 74 degree seat tube angle. http://surlybikes.com/frames/long_haul_trucker_frame/ You can disagree with me as much as you want, but the facts are there. The larger LHT's have a seat tube angle between 73 and 72 degrees. The smallest LHT frame has a seat tube angle of 75 degrees. They are not the same.

If you can find information about the LHT's seat tube angle that says they are the same with the small frames as with the taller frames, I would like to see it. I would have to wonder why Surly says otherwise though.

I think the LHT is a great bike in the larger sizes. I don't like it in my size.

ddez 06-05-10 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetLou (Post 10919046)
ddez, you are not correcting me. Read what I wrote. I did not mention the 60cm bicycle. I mentioned the 50cm LHT. I don't know about the newer Trek 520's, I haven't checked. I am talking about my 520 in a 19" frame. It has a 72.7 degree seat tube angle. According to Surly, their 50cm frame has a 74 degree seat tube angle. http://surlybikes.com/frames/long_haul_trucker_frame/ You can disagree with me as much as you want, but the facts are there. The larger LHT's have a seat tube angle between 73 and 72 degrees. The smallest LHT frame has a seat tube angle of 75 degrees. They are not the same.

If you can find information about the LHT's seat tube angle that says they are the same with the small frames as with the taller frames, I would like to see it. I would have to wonder why Surly says otherwise though.

I think the LHT is a great bike in the larger sizes. I don't like it in my size.

Now you are misunderstanding me,i did not say the degrees are all the same in all sizes in LHT. I was trying to point out the Trek and LHT are similar through all sizes. The LHT in all sizes is slightly more relaxed. In the case of the smallest LHT at 75 its 2 sizes smaller than Trek even makes so cant compare there.
Im guessing the newer Treks geometry have changed from old ones.
Anyway I guess no harm done,thats why they make so darned many different bikes i guess,each to his own or maybe to confuse.Lol.

MotoMan 06-07-10 01:50 PM

Poor Man's Riv is a state of mind: the Riv fit. A bad fit on a pricey frame does not work. I bought a Nashbar Road "Frame" a few years ago for about $60 with sale/coupon. Even though it is not a Riv, I built it with a Riv fit in mind. The frame was the right size (not undersized), higher handlebars over saddle (dirt drop stem/mustache bars), 34/46 compact crank with 12-32 in back for ease up steep hills, and B17 for my butt comfort. The fit was like a Riv, and it is the most comfortable bike I have. Un Riv parts of the frame you sacrifice for the Poor Man Budget (one must make compromises): carbon fork (however, the headtube was 1 inch and I was able to get a threaded carbon fork), carbon seat post, aluminum frame, Neuvation wheels (upgrade from poor Nashbars budget wheels...), Nashbar cassette (no freewheel), tight frame so hard to fender, not eyelets for racks/fenders, Nashbar tires, short reach Nashbar brakes. Riv addon or like Riv addons: Ritchey compact crank from Riv with low Q (crank and wheels cost more then frame...). wide gearing, Baggins saddlebag, Brooks saddle, Silver Shifters bar end, friction shifting, NOS front Suntour FD ($10), Mustache bars, cloth bar tape, Shimano brake lever from Riv., traditional frame geometry. Overall, the bike is not harsh to ride despite the aluminum naysayers. Maybe it is the carbon parts smoothing the ride along with the fit. Of course, it Riv prophesy come true, I will be riding someday and the caron will suddenly snap and the aluminim will fatigue into a doomsday situation... What a way to go, at least I will die happy on my bike...

d2create 07-26-10 02:22 PM

What if you are poor because you own a Riv? :D
Ok, just kidding. But I'm only a graphic designer who appreciates a certain type of bicycle aesthetic, ride quality and principals. Not "rich", that's for sure.
This is my second Riv.

I'm just getting to this thread and I'll ignore most of the typical riv vs the world comments, except for one or two.

The OP was asking about a poor man's riv and there were a lot of good suggestions.
Here's some more inspirational pics you can wade through.
http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/

One thing I can say though is that I've built up a bunch of bikes at the same time that I've had either of my Rivendells, and none RIDE like my Rivs. Including a Steel Wool Tweed that was mentioned. I guess it's the mix of geometry and frame materials. But whatever it is, owning a riv for me is more than just about looks. Even though their hand-painted paint jobs are incredible. I don't think I've ever heard any Riv owner complain that they were disappointed in their purchase. What i HAVE seen is Riv owners end up buying a second. And a third.... and....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/...cb692466_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3005/...651c675a_z.jpg

Shawnrs 08-18-10 02:25 PM

Steel Wool Tweed
 
Look up, Steel Wool Bikes.

I have one set up as a SS. Rack mounts, Fender mounts, Disk brake mounts, Canti mounts (BOO!) eccentric bottom bracket...
A little heavy but a plush ride for my daily 20km odd commute, each way.

jr59 08-18-10 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kojak (Post 10571502)
i don't know about whether or not this is a "poor man's" version, but this guy has built up a surley lht and even homer had to do a second take.

Dig the delta cruiser tires in creme to finish off the look.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=143147


great bike!

swen0171 08-18-10 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnrs (Post 11311756)
Look up, Steel Wool Bikes.

I have one set up as a SS. Rack mounts, Fender mounts, Disk brake mounts, Canti mounts (BOO!) eccentric bottom bracket...
A little heavy but a plush ride for my daily 20km odd commute, each way.

Has anyone ever ridden a disk brake bike with road levers and drop bars that stops worth a s**t? Is is possible to adjust the brakes so there is not an inch of loose travel in the brake lever before they engage? I helped a friend put together a Salsa set up this way. I sent her to the bike shop for final adjustments because I couldn't get them to feel "right" to me. They came back exactly as I set them up.

Also they are ugly:)

fender1 08-18-10 06:20 PM

Here is an old Bridgestone 400 I built up w/ parts from Rivendell.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/bylar13/038.jpg

[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ar13/041-1.jpg[/IMG]

fender1 08-18-10 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swen0171 (Post 11312770)
Has anyone ever ridden a disk brake bike with road levers and drop bars that stops worth a s**t? Is is possible to adjust the brakes so there is not an inch of loose travel in the brake lever before they engage? I helped a friend put together a Salsa set up this way. I sent her to the bike shop for final adjustments because I couldn't get them to feel "right" to me. They came back exactly as I set them up.

Also they are ugly:)

I have a Salsa La Cruz w/ Disc brakes & 105 10sp brifters. Brake set up in not an issue for me. In fact I prefer the disc brake set-up & feel to canti's anyday.

[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/bylar13/062.jpg[/IMG]

Cyclaholic 08-18-10 08:14 PM

Hey, beautiful as many bikes in this thread are, it's not all about shiny chrome and dainty paint jobs when it comes to old steel.

I rescued her from big rubbish night oblivion and rebirthed her with whatever I happened to have in the shed. She's definitely a workhorse not a showpony, but she earns her oats and never complains at the abuse and neglect she suffers, even in my hands.

I have no idea what this old girl's history is but her chipped paint and fading decals bear silent witness to a long and hard utilitarial life, and I respect that far too much to ever strip and re-paint her. Perhaps she suffered the elements on a back porch while hearing her owner cheering on his favorite TDF rider and admiring his mighty thoroughbred bike. But like the loyal steed that she is she got her master to work on time the very next morning, quietly leaning against the lamp post she was hurriedly chained to which left yet another mark on her paint, making sure she was ready to get him back home again in the evening in time for him to enjoy the next tour stage.

If only our old bikes could talk....

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...bum/ssaftr.jpg

gbcb 08-19-10 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2create (Post 11178578)
One thing I can say though is that I've built up a bunch of bikes at the same time that I've had either of my Rivendells, and none RIDE like my Rivs. Including a Steel Wool Tweed that was mentioned. I guess it's the mix of geometry and frame materials. But whatever it is, owning a riv for me is more than just about looks. Even though their hand-painted paint jobs are incredible. I don't think I've ever heard any Riv owner complain that they were disappointed in their purchase. What i HAVE seen is Riv owners end up buying a second. And a third.... and....

You know, I had almost overcome my Riv fetish when you started posted pictures of that dang AHH everywhere again. I used to have a picture of your Atlantis pinned to the wall of my cubicle at my old job (it's all about "open concept" here...)

One day, I'll have both a Rivendell and a Tobias Berg. One day.

chriswrong 08-19-10 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclaholic (Post 11313851)
Hey, beautiful as many bikes in this thread are, it's not all about shiny chrome and dainty paint jobs when it comes to old steel.

I rescued her from big rubbish night oblivion and rebirthed her with whatever I happened to have in the shed. She's definitely a workhorse not a showpony, but she earns her oats and never complains at the abuse and neglect she suffers, even in my hands.

I have no idea what this old girl's history is but her chipped paint and fading decals bear silent witness to a long and hard utilitarial life, and I respect that far too much to ever strip and re-paint her. Perhaps she suffered the elements on a back porch while hearing her owner cheering on his favorite TDF rider and admiring his mighty thoroughbred bike. But like the loyal steed that she is she got her master to work on time the very next morning, quietly leaning against the lamp post she was hurriedly chained to which left yet another mark on her paint, making sure she was ready to get him back home again in the evening in time for him to enjoy the next tour stage.

If only our old bikes could talk....

Speedwell Strada - a beautiful frame, looks like lugs and clearance for fenders to me, I'd have rescued her too if I could have! :thumb:

elbertus 08-19-10 09:16 PM

My poor mans riv is a 1991 Bridgestone RB-T picked up recently for $250. Got it from the original owner who says she rode it about 10-15 times before medical issues forced her to stop riding it. The bike is in near-new condition - trolling craigs list pays off for those who wait!

tarwheel 08-20-10 06:08 AM

This is an old thread but since it keeps reviving, I'll nominate another bike -- the Gunnar Sport. Although a little more expensive than Somas and Salsas, Gunnars are made in the USA by Waterford. The Sport has a great geometry like the old Japanese sport touring bikes that Rivendell loves to emulate. It has room for fenders and tires up to 32 mm as well as braze-ons for fenders, racks, water bottles, pump peg, etc. I am leaning toward getting a Gunnar Sport for my next commuter bike as the stock geometry is perfect for me and it has all of the features I want in a commuter.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/sport/

KonAaron Snake 08-20-10 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarwheel (Post 11321650)
This is an old thread but since it keeps reviving, I'll nominate another bike -- the Gunnar Sport. Although a little more expensive than Somas and Salsas, Gunnars are made in the USA by Waterford. The Sport has a great geometry like the old Japanese sport touring bikes that Rivendell loves to emulate. It has room for fenders and tires up to 32 mm as well as braze-ons for fenders, racks, water bottles, pump peg, etc. I am leaning toward getting a Gunnar Sport for my next commuter bike as the stock geometry is perfect for me and it has all of the features I want in a commuter.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/sport/

Is it really a poor man's Rivendell? I'd consider it more the smarter man's Rivendell.

KonAaron Snake 08-20-10 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fender1 (Post 11313188)
I have a Salsa La Cruz w/ Disc brakes & 105 10sp brifters. Brake set up in not an issue for me. In fact I prefer the disc brake set-up & feel to canti's anyday.

[IMG]http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/bylar13/062.jpg[/IMG]

I rode Scott's bike, which was set up much the same way your's was, and I was amazed at how well the brakes worked. I'd never felt good braking from road levers and disc brakes until that bike.

d2create 08-20-10 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake (Post 11321825)
Is it really a poor man's Rivendell? I'd consider it more the smarter man's Rivendell.

Says the poor man. :D

j/k. But seriously, the gunnar is $750 for just the frame.
Riv's Sam Hillborne is $1250 for the frame AND fork and headset. And you get the pretty lugs and paint job and Riv's geometry if that's what you like.
So the gunnar is a great bike, but if what you really want is a Riv, you don't need to spend much more at all to get it. If it was me, I'd spend a little more on the frame now, and upgrade components later if you need to save some cash somewhere.

RLRider 08-20-10 09:48 AM

Here is a Bridgestone Kabuki that I would think could be made into a touring bike pretty easily.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bridgestone-Kabu...?pt=Road_Bikes

KonAaron Snake 08-20-10 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2create (Post 11322492)
Says the poor man. :D

j/k. But seriously, the gunnar is $750 for just the frame.
Riv's Sam Hillborne is $1250 for the frame AND fork and headset. And you get the pretty lugs and paint job and Riv's geometry if that's what you like.
So the gunnar is a great bike, but if what you really want is a Riv, you don't need to spend much more at all to get it. If it was me, I'd spend a little more on the frame now, and upgrade components later if you need to save some cash somewhere.

Heh, it might have been a joke, but it also had the ring/sting of truth :)

It's all taste...personally I think Rivendell is selling their name more than they are bikes. I'd buy the Gunnar...but that's why there's chocolate and strawberry. Isn't that $1,250 riv made in Taiwan? I'd rather have the $750 Waterford made frame personally.

tarwheel 08-20-10 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2create (Post 11322492)
Says the poor man. :D

j/k. But seriously, the gunnar is $750 for just the frame.
Riv's Sam Hillborne is $1250 for the frame AND fork and headset. And you get the pretty lugs and paint job and Riv's geometry if that's what you like.
So the gunnar is a great bike, but if what you really want is a Riv, you don't need to spend much more at all to get it. If it was me, I'd spend a little more on the frame now, and upgrade components later if you need to save some cash somewhere.

The Gunnar would still be less expensive -- current prices are $800 for the frame, $275 for the fork (w/ options as cheap as $120). If you bought a headset equivalent to what Riv puts on their bikes, the Gunnar would be at least $100 less than the Sam Hillborne. Plus you could paint the Gunnar a range of colors, and their frames come in many more sizes. Finally, the Riv geometry is just whack, IMHO. The top tubes are extremely long, even considering the slack seat tube angle, and their sizes are very limited. I'm not a Rivendell basher, but I do not believe they are offering a good value for the money these days.

d2create 08-20-10 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarwheel (Post 11322787)
The Gunnar would still be less expensive -- current prices are $800 for the frame, $275 for the fork (w/ options as cheap as $120). If you bought a headset equivalent to what Riv puts on their bikes, the Gunnar would be at least $100 less than the Sam Hillborne. Plus you could paint the Gunnar a range of colors, and their frames come in many more sizes. Finally, the Riv geometry is just whack, IMHO. The top tubes are extremely long, even considering the slack seat tube angle, and their sizes are very limited. I'm not a Rivendell basher, but I do not believe they are offering a good value for the money these days.

Which is exactly what i said. If you like their geometry (like yourself, some do not) and really want a Riv, $100 is nothing. You can easily make that up in component selection and end up with a nicely built up, better lookin riv, rather than a riv wannabe.

KonAaron Snake 08-20-10 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarwheel (Post 11322787)
The Gunnar would still be less expensive -- current prices are $800 for the frame, $275 for the fork (w/ options as cheap as $120). If you bought a headset equivalent to what Riv puts on their bikes, the Gunnar would be at least $100 less than the Sam Hillborne. Plus you could paint the Gunnar a range of colors, and their frames come in many more sizes. Finally, the Riv geometry is just whack, IMHO. The top tubes are extremely long, even considering the slack seat tube angle, and their sizes are very limited. I'm not a Rivendell basher, but I do not believe they are offering a good value for the money these days.

+1..Riv is selling their name and reputation...which is fine, but it's NOT a good value. VO is making nice lugged Taiwan built frames for half of what Riv charges.

d2create 08-20-10 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake (Post 11323119)
but it's NOT a good value.

lol, what thread are you in? No one ever said Riv was a better value than some of these cheap alternatives.
But for an extra $100, it's a no brainer to take it over the gunnar, when you are looking for a Riv-ish bike. Hence the thread title.
Honestly though, both bikes are too expensive for this thread so it's really a non-issue.

Now when you've actually owned a Riv, then you can come back and talk to me about what they're selling and what it's worth. ;)


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