Torrilin

A lot of times, black kids might grow up and hit 20+ before ever having a positive interaction with a white person. The ghetto thing is very real. In some situations, because of their skin color it is assumed that they're fair game... by other black people. Really really uncool. Black guys in particular will also get extra-special hassling from the police, no matter what they're doing. I don't blame them for not always feeling that it's safe to stop. Black people have also been systemically kept out of bike racing, so one of the better avenues for learning the rules has historically been closed to them. Segregation is made of fail and lose.

For folks who grow up Latino... different combination of pressures. In a lot of Latin American countries, legally bikes are supposed to ride on the "wrong" side of the street. Bikes aren't viewed as vehicles in their legal code... and since American driver's ed blows ropy goat chunks, even if the parents learn to drive and are good drivers, the kids may not be getting good info. Add in the language barrier and the gang pressure, and it's not a good scene at all.

You're pretty much never going to fix anyone in an interaction on the street. Depressing, but true. So your best bet is to recognize that, and pick an outlet for your activism. Maybe work with a bike co-op or bike kitchen, to make sure kids have bikes to ride. Work with a local racing club to do outreach to help find the first ass-kicking African-American or Latino racer. But just like you can't fix idiot drivers, you can't fix idiot bikers.

(tho it's pretty common in our house to wish for college students to have their spring taken away! bloody menace!)

ollyisk

Stories like this make me happy that I live in a relatively bike-unfriendly city. There are no bikelanes anywhere in the city here, which I'm assuming keeps most people from riding to work if they live in a proximity that is doable. It's nice because I don't have to contend with people riding like 'tards to get to work on time, or get home after a long day at the office and the cars are actually quite accomodating--much more so than I would have thought for not really having to deal with many cyclists and having narrow, non-bike-laned streets.

I don't see any fellow commuters on my route and I work downtown. Most folks who work down here live in the 'burbs though, so almost everyone drives to work. I've yet to experience a salmon coming at me, since most of the salmon I see keep their full-suspension mountain bikes on the sidewalk, so they're a non-issue.

JPprivate

Adam - I know exactly what you mean. And I share your opinion about winter commuting - fewer idiots around.

Just a few days ago I was on the MUP back home and stopped at the light which crossed a major road. Left turn lights were on, but I always wait for the green (just too many cars). This chick passes me on a road bike (given me this funny look, like 'why do you wait for the light to turn green, dork') entering the street, waiting for the left turners to complete their turn. But she doesn't realize that the street she just entered has a right turn green light and she almost gets run over by car.

Stray8

It's New York. You just need to look more dangerous. Wear blood soaked clothes and do a mean Jack Nicholson imitation...LOL...

.

ortcutt

+1 on Torrilin's comments. Our imaginary Handbook of City Cycling Etiquette, with all of its rules about intersections, crosswalks, "salmon," etc. are, largely, a closed book in the cultures Torrilin describes.

Hey AdamDZ: have you ever seen any of these guys in the city? When I lived in NYC I used to see them fairly often. I rode with a couple of them in a century once.

snydly

It's cyclists like these that contribute to drivers not taking us seriously or wanting to share the road with us. I have encountered lots of idiots on bikes while I've been behind the wheel and can understand some of the animosity drivers have towards cyclists. Until the majority of bike riders starts acting responsible, we will continue to face this bias from drivers.

QNSplanner

Adam,

I totally feel your pain! As I read your list, I could clearly envision all of those incidents. Just for the sake of contrast, I'll offer a story. I visited Montreal on a bike last summer and I was blown away by the differences in what's generally acceptable to cyclists. For example: it's common for bike riders to actually queue up at a red light. Like, as in, one person gets to a red light and puts a foot down. The next peson to comes along in the bike lane stops *behind* the first person and also puts a foot down, and so on. If I stop behind the crosswalk in New York (particularly in Manhattan or Northern Brooklyn), I'm always in somebody's way.

But here's the thing - You've got to take it all in stride. It's not up to you to change people's riding habits, right? I think people in general will get better and better at it as time goes on. Anyway, I will keep an eye out for you. Maybe we'll stop at the same red light some day and show everyone how it's done.

ortcutt

Yeah, but NYC is ... different. There's a kind of equilibrium generated by the fact that virtually everyone (motorists, cyclists, peds) is rude and pushy. To be on a bicycle in NYC is to ride a pinball.

Doohickie

The only interactions I make with other cyclists, pedestrians, or even car drivers, is a bell ring, a wave, a nod or a verbal greeting. If it's on the MUP I might say "On your left." The MUP here primarily follows the river. It was built where the old service roads were, and in the most-traveled areas is actually a crushed stone path used by pedestrians, joggers, dog-walkers, baby-strollers, etc., and a paved path that is primarily (but not exclusively) the domain of cyclists. Plus, the vast majority of the people who use the MUP are familiar with best practices and the negative interactions are few.

The worst is when there is a charity walk on a Saturday morning- then there are tons of people who've never been out to the MUP before and don't understand that it's not reserved just for their little walk.

I used to get more upset with people but I try to let it go. The thing that gets me steamed the most (and I try not to let it get to me) are ninja salmon after dark. I almost hit one once. I don't think I've had too many close calls since I got my more powerful light. If I can see them I can avoid them.

All that in two weeks, eh? I think if I had to deal with that I would probably think about quitting too.

AdamDZ

That is so wrong and sad

You know, I've been thinking about getting involved in some kind of cycling advocacy. But my wife would really think I'm getting weird. She's been supportive so far but I can feel at times that she wonders about my bicycle addiction.

No, I've never heard of them. I only rode with 5BBC (https://5bbc.org/) for a few years.

AdamDZ

Oh yeah, don't even get me started on this

I've read all your comments and I will take them to the heart. I will not to let these cyclist spoil my ride and I will not say anything any more. Perhaps I'll become more resistant. I'll focus on my own safety and if someone doesn't like me stopping at a red light I'll just let them be. I will also try to remember the good interactions an try to put the bad ones behind me. I should be glad that I can ride my bike to work and focus on the good things around my biking.

Adam

idoru2005

Geez! With all the salmons you are complaining about, it makes me wonder who is really going the wrong direction...

snorkel

Yeah, move out to BFE. The only other cyclists I see are the two other guys that decided that my commuting to work looked like fun.

Of course then you'll just be ranting about fat, stupid rednecks. Idiots are everywhere and come in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

chipcom 

So you met your bizarro world twin!

Dude, it's traffic and it happens everywhere in all kinds of vehicles.
Don't let it get you all flustered.

snydly

I'm sure you're right, I haven't experienced NYC yet. My comments were more general in nature based on bike riders (as opposed to cyclists) I've encountered elsewhere in the country.

HardyWeinberg

+1

RogerB

Don't quit biking. Just quit NYC.

I think even if you move away you can still mention it in the first thing you say to strangers. (Make sure it's loud enough for bystanders to hear, also.)

neil

I fume at salmon, sidewalk riders, and others who refuse to follow the rules of the road. But I don't bother saying anything. It's just too much emotional investment. Taking this approach would probably dramatically reduce your aggravation level.

But a lot of this strikes me as stereotypical NYC behaviour, no? Everyone existing in their own world where they are absolutely in the right 100% of the time?

Pobble.808

As an NY expat I feel your pain, but I think this is the way to go. The same kind of potentially lethal cluelessness is rampant out here, 5000 miles from Queens, all the more so in recent years as the number of newbie cyclists has increased. What's different is that people here tend to abhor confrontation, for better or worse. I commute by bike because it reduces my stress level, and confrontations don't help w/ that, so I think it's better to let the clueless folks do their thing -- and let the Darwinian factors kick in by and by. Give it a try, and if you find that it doesn't work for you, you can always go back to your previous approach...

ortcutt

Boy, I'd love to push back against all the recent NYC hatin'... Nah, don't want to go off-topic. And anyway, as any current or former New Yorker knows, it'd be pearls before swine.

Yellowbeard

You make me feel warm and secure in my little bicycle-coddling bubble of a city.

Seattle Forrest

You should have stole her baby. I don't know what you'd do with it, though? Too late to give it to Michael Jackson...

summitseeker

It's definitely not NYC. I moved out of NYC to what has now been declared the 3rd most bicycle friendly city in the country, Boulder Colorado. The hardcore cyclists are even more rude out here. They are so rude and break so many traffic laws, local Mayors in neighboring towns are actually trying to ban roads in their town from bicyclists.

It's absurd. I commute on a SS, 28 miles round trip, and I can't tell you how many times I get belittled by multi-geared road bikers because I'm in their way, slowing them down, or because I too stopped at a red light. ( it still is the law, right? )

And then they rant in the local papers about how motorists are out to get them. I mean I'm about out to get you and I bike ?!?

At least I can get out on my mountain bike on the weekends.

pennstater

Yes, since the weather has turned warm the crazies are out in New York. But I won't let them ruin my day. If you consider the sheer number of people I pass on my 24 mile commute I am always amazed at how many (including motorists) are actually considerate. Especially given what we all have to deal with just living day to day here.

I own a place on the beach on the Florida panhandle. By all measures (except one) paradise. Drivers and pedestrians both are inconsiderate or maybe just ignorant of cyclists. I actually fear for my physical safety more there than riding across Manhattan. In the city it is a given - you really have to share space. Down there it's as if they own the road and what are you doing on it with a bicycle. Better look out for those black pick-up trucks with American flags and gun racks.

ortcutt

I grew up in Fort Walton Beach. The running joke there, whenever a cyclist was spotted on the roads, was: "There goes another DUI."