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  1. #1
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Edit: The Z-Force came in, so this question is now moot.

    While I was dealing with Perfomance, I whined about the service, so I owe them this note. Although Performance's customer serivce was get-what-you-pay-for, they were fair in the end. When you factor in my "Team Performance" points and the 20% coupon, I will pay about $270 for a light that lists at close to $400. That figure includes $20 for joining Team Perfomance, so you could say the cost for the light itself was only $250. That's enough of a discount to make the hassles worth it.

    When the back ordered light came in, they messed up by not giving me 2-day air service. After two phone calls, they took off the shipping charge entirely. I still have to wait two weeks for the stupid thing, but I got a fair price.


    Do you think I should ask Performance to substitute a Light and Motion ARC HID for the Cygolite Z-Force NiMH I have on backorder. When I ordered the Z-Force, it was back ordered until 9/17/04. It is now back ordered until 10/1/04. Performance says it could be even longer. The website says the L&M is in stock.

    The L&M is $10.00 more, which, at this price point, is not an issue. But, the L&M looks slightly inferior to the Cygolite, at least for my purposes. (I commute year-round through dark streets and paths, 20-35 minutes each way. Right now, I need the light in the morning, but I will soon need it both ways.) The L&M is 11/13.5 watts with a 3/3.5 hour claimed run time. The Z-Force is 12 watts with a 4 hour claimed run time. I can't imagine the difference of 1.5 watts would make a huge difference. 12 watts of HID is more than enough for my purposes, especially with the extra run time.

    The real benefit of the L&M is that I could get it in a couple of days, as opposed to an indefinite back order. Am I missing something that makes the L&M superior to the Z-Force?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 09-22-04 at 09:04 AM.

  2. #2
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    It's easier to get support from L&M, their products also seemed better designed with better optics/beam pattern.

  3. #3
    hors category TandemGeek's Avatar
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    If you really want the Cygolite, you might want to check-out the lights at BeyondBikes.com (no biz affiliation, just a satisfied customer)

    Cygolite: http://www.beyondbikes.com/bb/ba/asp...e/ab/items.htm
    I think they have the same Z-Force NiMH for $314 and it shows in-stock.

    I purchased a L&M HID ARC Li-Ion from BeyondBikes.com for $399 w/no tax and free shipping and have absolutely no regrets about BeyondBikes.com or the L&M Light.

    As for lights, I can only comment on my latest and greatest.... The L&M lights are pretty slick. The Li-Ion model (battery) is incredibly light -- I hardly notice that it's in my rear jersey pocket -- and you can use the bar or helmet mount. Frankly, after converting to helmet mount I can't imagine going back to a bar mount. Where you look you have light which is very helpful when cornering since you can look into the corner and see what's there well before a handlebar-mounted light will get there, you can use your computer without any backlight, and you can get off your bike and see what you're doing if you have a flat or some other type of mechanical. Oh yea, and one more added bonus. During Ivan we lost power for about 1.5hrs. I just brought my helmet with the L&M light attached to it in from the garage and fired it up inside the house. By pointing it into the kitchen ceiling it even provided enough bright useable light to allow Debbie to read the newspaper while waiting for the power to return. Just some food for thought when shopping for headlights.

    Back to batteries, the actual run times for the Li-Ion are more like 4 hours at 13.5 watts and the smart charger is very slick; just plug in your battery and forget about it. It recharges your battery in 3hrs and then goes onto trickle charge so no worries about leaving it plugged-up when you're riding.

    L&M: http://www.beyondbikes.com/bb/ba/asp...G/ab/items.htm
    The pricing on the NiMH isn't as good as Performance ($384) but the Li-Ion is still only $399.
    Last edited by livngood; 09-21-04 at 06:29 AM.

  4. #4
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input. The point is now moot. The Cygolite is in.

    [rant that you've all heard before]
    Unfortunately, I'm fighting now with Performance to give me what they promised and what I paid for when I joined "Team Performance": 2-day air service. Now they say that since the Cygolite was back ordered, they will send it normal shipping, (7-10 days). Their policy says that they use regular shipping when "a Backorder causes your order to be sent in more than one shipment...." But I only ordered one thing, so there is not "more than one shipment."

    I'm trying to avoid doing another "Perfomance-gives-bad-customer-service" thread, but if they don't correct this, they're being dishonest, so I might just indulge.
    [/rant that you've all heard before]

    Edit: I can no longer say they were dishonest. They took off the shipping charge entirely. I'll get $10.50 back, but I still have to wait two weeks for the stupid thing. This is just another get-what-you-pay-for-at-Performance story.

    Edit: As I explain in this thread, my Cygolite died after about 18 months of use. The company wants $100 to $200 to replace the lamp and/or ballast. That's a rip-off.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 03-31-06 at 04:19 PM.

  5. #5
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    I'm willing to accept some amount of bad customer service for the prices they provide.

  6. #6
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    I'm willing to accept some amount of bad customer service for the prices they provide.
    Fair point. But, when they intentionally break a promise, that becomes an honesty issue, not a bad customer service issue. Doing a bad job is one thing. Being dishonest is another.

    The low-level customer service rep with whom I spoke did not have the authority to make things right. Now, the higher-ups will have a chance. If they make things right, I'll edit all of my posts in this thread to reflect that.

    And on a related note, can you thread-jack a thread that you started?

    Edit: I can no longer say they were dishonest. They took off the shipping charge entirely. I'll get $10.50 back, but I still have to wait two weeks for the stupid thing. This is just another get-what-you-pay-for-at-Performance story.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 09-21-04 at 01:24 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member socalrider's Avatar
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    The nice thing about the L&M is that it gives you options.. You can use it as a handlebar or helmet light with all the equipment to do either.. For me when using as a handlebar light, I do not lose a waterbottle cage for the battery.. It easily has a burn rate over 3 hours and the customer service is rock solid..

    If you go to there website, they only charge you 99.00 for a replacement battery instead of 200.00 like many other light manufacturers.. I feel they do this so you will just end up buying a new light.. I had this experience with Niterider.. This is why I no longer use them..

    Go with the Arc, you can't go wrong..

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