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Old 08-12-14, 04:48 PM
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Its more value than a big box store bike and you can upgrade components as they wear out. The frame is better made than the rest of the bike!

Congrats on your new Jubilee!
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Old 08-12-14, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by NormanF
Its more value than a big box store bike and you can upgrade components as they wear out. The frame is better made than the rest of the bike!

Congrats on your new Jubilee!

Yeah, the frame is solid. In fact, perfect for what I'm looking to use the bike for. Definitely better than a $350 bike you'd buy at target or Walmart. Decent tires, components are similar to what you get on a Giant or Fuji that costs at least $100 more+tax. Not a world beater but exactly what I thought I was getting, so I'm pretty happy with it. I know I will be able to use it many years. Also came with not a scratch on it and the wheels don't require any truing and fit is perfect just by using their suggestions.
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Old 08-12-14, 05:14 PM
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You should take it to a bike shop for a tune up. New bikes do need minor wheel truing and assembly checks. That's true on a brand new bike.

The no name Chinese/Taiwan components are decent and keeps the costs down. And they come in several frame sizes, have good welds and are made lighter and stronger than any big box store bike. You're already in beginner dealer quality bike territory.

You'll be happy with it!
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Old 08-13-14, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
I don't like the fact that they bought the rights to use the Motobecane and Windsor names among others. These were respected brands and BD used the names to give themselves credibility even though the bikes they were/are producing have no connection with the old companies. I just find it deceptive and if they're going to be deceptive in that manner, where else are they going to try to deceive the consumers?
You do realize all companies do this don't you? Very few bike brands are still made by the original manufacturer. Pacific owns Schwinn. Dorel owns Cannondale. Buying a name is so common in business you have to expect it.
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Old 08-13-14, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bbike4ever
You do realize all companies do this don't you? Very few bike brands are still made by the original manufacturer. Pacific owns Schwinn. Dorel owns Cannondale. Buying a name is so common in business you have to expect it.
All companies do this? There is a difference between one company buying another company and a company licensing a name. I agree that the Schwinns being produced today are Schwinns in name only.

Cannondale is a little different. Dorel didn't just buy the right to use Cannondale's name, - they bought the whole bicycle division. The product line has continued. You can argue that they are moving in the wrong direction under the new ownership, but in my mind it is still completely different from what BD has done with classic brands like Windsor and Motobecane.

But yeah, other companies do what BD has done. Other companies also have other deceptive practices. I still don't like it. It's not OK in my mind just because BD isn't the only company doing it.

BD's bogus sales vs list prices also put me off. Having said that, people can be quite happy with the bikes available from BD. I just wish they took a more honest approach to their marketing.

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Old 08-13-14, 01:16 PM
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my new Motobecane Fantom Cross Disc just came from UPS! i've only taken it out of the box, but everything looks great, no visual damage apparent upon 1st inspection. I'll get her put together after work tonight cause i'm anxious for the 1st ride.
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Old 08-14-14, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
All companies do this? There is a difference between one company buying another company and a company licensing a name. I agree that the Schwinns being produced today are Schwinns in name only.
We are just debating sematics here. If you buy a company and move all manufacturing overseeas you have basically done nothing but buy the name no matter what you call it. For the past 40 years this is what has happened all across the industry. Even US "made" bikes are just assembled here using foreign made parts. Dorel bought Cannondale and within a few years had moved all manufacturing overseas. They haven't assembled a bike in the USA much less manufactured one here since about 2010 so they are no more US made than is a Motobecane from BD. Sure, there are some boutique shops doing everything here but their impact on the market place is miniscule and their cost prohibitive for the average rider. I am by no means picking on Cannondale, they aren't doing anything any different than anyone else. In the end we benefit from prices being kept low not that there is any consolation for the guy or gal laid off when their bike manufacturing job moved overseas. If you just gotta have entirely made in America and have the money go to a boutique shop and shell out the dough.

I paid zero attention to the list price on the BD site just like I do whenever I shop for anything (especially automoblies). I compared straight up to what I could get here locally in the stores. The only store that come even close was Dicks with the Diamondback line and you aren't getting anything different with them.

People can hate BD but they are only the beginning. Online retailers like Eds Bike Shop are popping up everyday with unbelievable prices. This will inevitably impact the name brands. What impact it has the LBS is debatable since I don't know their percentage of income from sales and service. I would guess it is in their interest to get more butts in bicycle seats so maybe it will be a wash as they get more service earnings but who knows?
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Old 08-14-14, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bbike4ever
We are just debating sematics here. If you buy a company and move all manufacturing overseeas you have basically done nothing but buy the name no matter what you call it. For the past 40 years this is what has happened all across the industry. Even US "made" bikes are just assembled here using foreign made parts. Dorel bought Cannondale and within a few years had moved all manufacturing overseas. They haven't assembled a bike in the USA much less manufactured one here since about 2010 so they are no more US made than is a Motobecane from BD. Sure, there are some boutique shops doing everything here but their impact on the market place is miniscule and their cost prohibitive for the average rider. I am by no means picking on Cannondale, they aren't doing anything any different than anyone else. In the end we benefit from prices being kept low not that there is any consolation for the guy or gal laid off when their bike manufacturing job moved overseas. If you just gotta have entirely made in America and have the money go to a boutique shop and shell out the dough.

I paid zero attention to the list price on the BD site just like I do whenever I shop for anything (especially automoblies). I compared straight up to what I could get here locally in the stores. The only store that come even close was Dicks with the Diamondback line and you aren't getting anything different with them.

People can hate BD but they are only the beginning. Online retailers like Eds Bike Shop are popping up everyday with unbelievable prices. This will inevitably impact the name brands. What impact it has the LBS is debatable since I don't know their percentage of income from sales and service. I would guess it is in their interest to get more butts in bicycle seats so maybe it will be a wash as they get more service earnings but who knows?
I'm not arguing about where the bikes are made. There is more to a bike company than just manufacturing. Dorel just opened a new 51,000 sqft headquarters for "Cannondale Sports Unlimited" in Wilton, CT. They do product research and design there among other things.

So no, buying a company and buying the name of defunct company are two different things. It's not just a matter of semantics. Are you suggesting that Salsa and Surly under QBP are essentially no different than Windsor and Motobecane under Bikes Direct?

Other than maybe a prototype or two, Surly has never made a bike in the US. Yet they are a real brand, with real products and distinct designs. Windsor and Motobecane are not, - not anymore. They are just names. Which collection of parts ends up being called a Motobecane vs a Windsor, vs a Dawes might be decided by rolling a die.

If Dorel ends up laying off all the staff, shutting down research and design, and basically throws Canondale decals on off the shelf frames and parts, then I agree. It's no different.

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Old 08-14-14, 11:56 AM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
I'm not arguing about where the bikes are made. There is more to a bike company than just manufacturing. Dorel just opened a new 51,000 sqft headquarters for "Cannondale Sports Unlimited" in Wilton, CT. They do product research and design there among other things.

So no, buying a company and buying the name of defunct company are two different things. It's not just a matter of semantics. Are you suggesting that Salsa and Surly under QBP are essentially no different than Windsor and Motobecane under Bikes Direct?

Other than maybe a prototype or two, Surly has never made a bike in the US. Yet they are a real brand, with real products and distinct designs. Windsor and Motobecane are not, - not anymore. They are just names. Which collection of parts ends up being called a Motobecane vs a Windsor, vs a Dawes might be decided by rolling a die.

If Dorel ends up laying off all the staff, shutting down research and design, and basically throws Canondale decals on off the shelf frames and parts, then I agree. It's no different.
There isn't much difference outside of innovation.

QBP owns many brand names of bikes, none of which existed before QBP created them. The only difference is that BD bought the names of old companies to use. Nobody really knows where BD gets frame designs or if they more or less just clone previous frames but their designs are generally 3-5 years out of date compared to new bikes coming out. Their frames are made in Taiwan like most other bike companies, their components and frames are shipped to a place in FL where they are assembled and shipped from. This isn't really any different than Trek, Giant....ect.

In fact, most Motobecanes are made in the same factory as Giant bikes. Windsor is made in Fuji's factory. Kestrel is owned by the same company as Fuji and most of frames not mentioned here are made either in the Giant or Fuji factory and some in the same factory as Trek.

From what I can tell all the bikes are assembled at Cycle Spectrum (a Bike shop in FL) and shipped mostly assembled to the customer. In fact, you can buy fully assmebled BD bikes frome Cycle Spectrum if you live in the area and they also offer life time free adjustments and repairs (minus cost of parts).
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Old 08-14-14, 10:26 PM
  #285  
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When I was driving trucks, I loaded canned pears in Yakima, WA three different times. Each time they were "branded" with a different store label. I asked the girl at the window where I got my paperwork just who they sold to and she told me that they sold to over a dozen different companies and slapped different labels on the cans as the last step before they went into the boxes.

Not a lot different than Giant making frames for BD, called whatever BD wants to call them. Or Giant making frames for Trek.

I just look at the parts bolted on the frame and the selling price. That seems to me to be the bottom line of what you ride and pay for.

That being said that doesn't mean that a big company can't order a huge batch that is to their specs and is not available to another brand. Made by the same people in the same plant, just modified to suit the needs of one customer if they place a large enough order.

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Old 08-15-14, 04:50 AM
  #286  
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When I worked at a factory that made baby formula, we made our name brand version and also the version that went to Walmart. Our name brand stuff had the modern,most recently developed formulation for maximal nutrition and flavor. The walmart labeled stuff was made using a recipe that was two iterations old. Still ok, not the best or most current. Both made in the same factory by the same people. Both probably healthful for your baby (assuming I didn't let a bad batch slip through in my job in Quality Control/Assurance), but not quite equivalent.
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Old 08-15-14, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau
When I worked at a factory that made baby formula, we made our name brand version and also the version that went to Walmart. Our name brand stuff had the modern,most recently developed formulation for maximal nutrition and flavor. The walmart labeled stuff was made using a recipe that was two iterations old. Still ok, not the best or most current. Both made in the same factory by the same people. Both probably healthful for your baby (assuming I didn't let a bad batch slip through in my job in Quality Control/Assurance), but not quite equivalent.
WALMART is a financial thug/powerhouse that strongarms many companies into doing that under threat. BD is different ~ They have absolutely no market leverage or reason to demand that. They are simply working a deal with other bike companies, mostly Fuji and KHS, to redecal some of their models. Bianchi does the same thing, lots of companies do. Unless they are Giant, most larger name recognition LBS bikes are the same. Made by Maxway or one the four other huge frame conglomerates with different shimano/sram/whatever parts hung on them. I think the liability laws in america are incentive for all of these generic frame makers to turn out a product that is not too bad on any level. I recently bought one of those single speed Schwinn "signature" models for about 175.00 as a commuting mule, and was surprised at how well the frame was made. A lot of the other parts were not to my liking, but the frame was totally worth the price of the bike
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Old 08-15-14, 06:37 AM
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I'm not saying BD forces anybody to do anything. Just that because things are made in the same factory by the same people, they're not necessarily the same thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm essentially building up a Windsor Oxford 8 for my wife only using a vintage frame and vintage parts and spending way more than if I'd just bought that from them in the first place. If I'd had it to do over again and had all the cash at once, I would have just bought that for her and been done with it.
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Old 08-15-14, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau
I'm not saying BD forces anybody to do anything. Just that because things are made in the same factory by the same people, they're not necessarily the same thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm essentially building up a Windsor Oxford 8 for my wife only using a vintage frame and vintage parts and spending way more than if I'd just bought that from them in the first place. If I'd had it to do over again and had all the cash at once, I would have just bought that for her and been done with it.

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Old 08-15-14, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bbike4ever
Of course you hate Bikesdirect, they are killer competition.
Not really. I like them. When someone rolls one in for service, often they will be a bit sheepish about having mail-ordered their bike. But noglider was correct a few pages ago -- margins on bikes are horrible. If all we did was sell bikes, we'd be out of business. Luckily, there are all kinds of things people like to put on their bikes, which keep the lights on and my paychecks coming.

On top of low margin, we have to set the bike up for sale for free (duh), we offer free service on bikes, warranty service is usually done gratis in the rare cases when something goes wrong... and a million little things like merchandising the bike (shop space = sq ft $$$s), dealing with the paperwork, storing bikes in boxes (not small packages...), carrying inventory, dusting/filling tires, selling them to customers...

Whereas if we are servicing a bikes direct bike, other than regular shop overhead -- which is also eats into new bike sale profit -- it's pretty much pure profit. No unit cost on labor beyond overhead.

There are some who can buy a BD bike, assemble and tune it correctly, but that's not the majority who do, and we are happy to take care of the rest at much better profit than if they bought a bike in our shop.

BD pricing is closer to what shops pay for their bikes from the bigger companies. Even if you are a total klutz and bring a boxed BD bike to a shop for initial assembly and tuning, you're still paying much less than a shop bike. Do it yourself, or learn how, and they are a bargain.
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Old 08-15-14, 12:25 PM
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This is cutting throat indeed! One of my LBS will close at the end of this month after serving the neighborhood for 37 years!

However, I wonder if it is possible that the owner of a LBS set up another dot com unrelated to Trek, Specialized, etc to sell those name brand bikes online at say 20% margin. Once an order comes in, just "buy" it from the real shop and mail it. I know this is not ethical business wise, but it could be legal if setup properly.

Originally Posted by mconlonx
BD pricing is closer to what shops pay for their bikes from the bigger companies.
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Old 09-27-14, 10:02 AM
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Just chiming in... Ordered a Windsor Wellington 2.0 on 9/20 from Bikes Direct. Then two day laters I decided to upgrade to a Wellington SL. I put my measurements in an online calculator from another site and that's where I came up with the 56cm frame.

The 54cm frame Takara Kabuto bike I ordered from Amazon in April 2013 was horrible to ride and my hands were hurting after 5 minutes. It also was single speed and the brakes suck even after getting my LBS to repair. I didn't realize my miscalculation on sizing until several months later. Went by height recommendations alone like a noob, neglecting the fact that I have longer arms.

I haven't been able to find any reviews of the SL model, though he 3.0 (when it's not damaged in shipping) generally has good reviews. What I did hear mixed talk about was the Shimano Sora components that came on that and the Fuji Roubaix my LBS carries. So I went up a level to Claris. My derailleurs need some minor adjustments as do my wheels, but otherwise this bike is awesome. Assembly was fairly easy, around 5-6 pounds lighter than my super cheap steel, one step up from Wal-Mart road bike.

Even after changing my order, I got the bike shipped to my door in 2 days. Had no clue they had a warehouse in the DFW area. Hardest part of assembly was putting the pedals on. I kept turning the wrong way...

I took my GT Timberline mountain bike to LBS for routine maintenance, as part of a contract I purchased. Due to demand they said it could take up to a month before I'd get it back. Granted it's been a year since I had any kind of work done on it and they are very thorough.. I will still go to them for service, but after my mixed experience with a purchase the first time around, was on the fence about going for a second time.

So YMMV but so far I had a good experience. 531.19 shipped for a road bike with carbon fiber fork, 24 speeds integrated with brake levers, dual pivot brakes, fairly lightweight frame.
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Old 09-27-14, 10:08 AM
  #293  
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Good to hear that worked out for you.

A month is a long time to be without a bike. Learn to do your own maintenance and you won't have to wait at all.
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Old 09-27-14, 02:46 PM
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I bought my fixie from them ( Mercier Kilo TT) and it a great bike. The LBC didn't have what I wanted so I would've have to drive a long way to get something the same or better and pay a lot more for it. I would buy from Bike Direct again.
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Old 09-27-14, 03:52 PM
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All ship out of Taipei , ROC. Or the other one PRC
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Old 09-27-14, 07:40 PM
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Welp I screwed up my pedal install and my derailleur rubs in the front even after I spent a few hours adjusting it. Pedal felt funny while riding, I pulled over and it just fell off completely. My own fault for stripping it during the install. I think I'm going to just have the bike shop do repairs on my bikes from now on. The last two times I tried to fix something I just made it worse. Can't find the SHIMANO Claris FC-2403 30T/39T/50T x170MM ALLOY BLACK CRANK anywhere online in the US. Thoughts?
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Old 09-28-14, 05:52 PM
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Lbs is going to fix it and give me a tuneup. Should run me like $50. They're adjusting my front and rear dérailleur and adjusting spokes on wheels. Maybe they aren't so bad after all.
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Old 09-29-14, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by realmac
Welp I screwed up my pedal install and my derailleur rubs in the front even after I spent a few hours adjusting it. Pedal felt funny while riding, I pulled over and it just fell off completely. My own fault for stripping it during the install. I think I'm going to just have the bike shop do repairs on my bikes from now on. The last two times I tried to fix something I just made it worse. Can't find the SHIMANO Claris FC-2403 30T/39T/50T x170MM ALLOY BLACK CRANK anywhere online in the US. Thoughts?
Everyone makes mistakes. I suggest looking up your next job on the Park website before proceeding. You probably screwed it in backwards, and crossed the threads.
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Old 09-29-14, 10:20 AM
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A friend just got a BD cross bike. He brought it to me for initial assembly and for some instruction on general bike mechanics. Everything went together fairly well with the following observations:
1) The front wheel was out of true. Since part of setting up a bike by a competent mechanic is to true, tension and stress relieve the wheels, I found that the spoke tension was too low generally and one spoke was completely unwound. The wheel came up OK after the TT&S.
2) Rear wheel needed tensioning and stress relief. Lateral true was OK, but spokes were too too loose.
3) Both front and rear hubs were way too tight. I re-greased and adjusted them.

These were more than expected from a new-in-box bike. The expected tasks should be:
1) Assemble & adjust fork in headset
2) Blow up tires, put in the wheels
3) Assemble and adjust front brake, adjust rear brake
4) Install chain, adjust derailleurs
5) Safety inspection- make sure all the bolts are tight, everything moves and works right
6) Test ride- adjust seat, adjust stem height, change stem if necessary.

If I had only done the minimum, the front brake would have been rubbing immediately and the wheels would have gone out of true or broken spokes way prematurely. That's what a bike shop should be doing, and what Bikes Direct doesn't.
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Old 09-29-14, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cycle_maven
That's what a bike shop should be doing, and what Bikes Direct doesn't.
Um,yeah,exactly. Bikes DIRECT. As in,"direct to the customer,no bike shop in between". BD sends the bike straight to the customer,rather then to a shop like the other manufacturers do.

I don't see why so many people don't realize this. BD isn't like the other online companies where you're just supposed to put the front wheel on(and I've had several come into my clinic that needed more than that done). It's like regular bikes only the customer takes the place of the shop.
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