JeremyLC

I'm just posting this to get it off my chest and vent a little to a group that, I hope, understands.

Starting from the beginning....

I had to run a non bike-friendly errand at lunch yesterday (had to pick up a bari sax, and I do not have a cargo trailer), so I didn't get to ride into work. (this, of course, makes my whole day feel off) So, I decided to go ride after work. (I'm usually busy on Tuesday evenings anyway)

So, at this point in the tale I'm on the MUP at the park (The River Legacy Park for DFW folks who know it) riding along about 19-20 mph (the posted limit for the trail is 20mph), I'm coming around a curve when AUGH!! An entire group of people, 1 child and five adults, is standing across the full width of the trail (it is a concrete trail split with a double solid yellow line). NONE of them make ANY EFFORT to move, they just stand there gawking. I slammed on my brakes so hard I started to skid. I had to squeeze my brakes in short bursts to try to slow down at all, but it was not enough. The poor child was in front of the entire group, in my lane and I couldn't dodge her. I caught her handle bar in the spokes of my front wheel and went down, full body, into the concrete. I think she was okay, I didn't leave until her father said I could. In the end, I cut my calf, and broke the lever for my front brake. (not too serious a break, though, I can still stop with it, but it now needs to be replaced.)

I was all at once furious and stricken with guilt. I was furious at myself for not being more careful and avoiding the collision. (not sure how I would) I was also furious at every single adult in the group for not having the sense to get out of the way. Mostly, I feel terrible for hitting that poor child. I managed to drop a lot of speed, but I just couldn't stop. (I couldn't really ditch to the side of the trail either, since it is lined with trees)

benda18

when i was like 7 years old i was struck by a roadie on an mup. the roadie was attempting to pass me but didn't make an audible signal to me that he was passing. i did a u-turn without looking and he t-boned me. we both were pretty beat up, his bike was mangled and unrideable. in retrospect we were probably both at fault.

these things happen. don't worry about it too much, just try to learn from the experience to prevent it from happening in the future.

lshaped

muppet racing will do that to you

Fizzaly

I dont think its your fault at all, ive had many sim. problems a lot of people just aren't educated on the rules of mups. It really irks me when i come up behind a large group and let my presence be known just to have them ignore me.

Jtgyk

I know that trail and tend to avoid "Family Hour" for just that reason. You never know when a group of meat pylons will be hiding around a corner.
Were they facing you, or were you coming from behind?
Did you have time to announce yourself?
Were they all on bikes, or just the little girl?
I'm familiar with the anger/guilt feeling. Mine was turning right (in my car) from a full stop onto a busy street and knocked down a roller blader who was riding the wrong way on a bike lane (hidden behind a line of parked cars). I was relieved as hell he was OK...Mad as hell at all contra-flow idiots in the world...and feeling guilty as hell for not anticipating his bone head shenanigans.

Jtgyk

Airzound them....that'll get their attention.

jefferee

Just why were you going 20 MPH around a blind corner?

Somebody had to say it.

JeremyLC

Yeah, it wasn't the greatest time of day to be out there, but I take the opportunities when they come.

They were facing me, which made it all the more upsetting that they didn't make any effort to move. >

Does screaming "AUUUGGGGHH!!!" count as announcing myself? (I do have a bell, a Crane Suzu , mounted on my handlebars and I pretty much always announce "Passing on the left" and ring my bell before passing on the left)

4 were on bikes, two were walking.

I think, in this case, I'd be tempted to yell at the guy after being sure he was alright. (yes, that WOULD be the wrong thing to do.)

JeremyLC

1.) It's the posted limit. I usually don't have any trouble out there.

2.) It's not a danger unless someone (this entire group, for example) is headed the wrong way down the trail.

Do you slow your car down every time you go around a curve in the road? You don't, generally, expect someone to be on the "wrong side of the road"

Sentinel04

I know the posted limit was 20mph, but you were downright insane to go that fast during family hour.

RWBlue01

First, There is a reason why they are called accidents. Sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. All you can do is think about how you could change things so it doesn't happen again.

Second,
I have had people walk 4 wide across a trail blocking traffic from both directions. I have seen kids run across the path in-between bikes. I don't know how there was not a crash. When there is a crash, it has to be blamed on the pedestrians being stupid.
I have also seen bicycles riding way to fast for the traffic on the path. The average walker is going 3 MHP. The average jogger is going 7 MHP. The average out of shape tourist bicyclist is going 8-12MHP. And then there is the speed bicyclist weaving in and out of the people. There will be a crash and I would blame it on the bicyclist.

So, There are times and places I don't ride because of the morons on those trails.

If you are just avoiding a few morons, good luck. The law of averages should help you, because you have already had a crash.
If you are going to fast for the other people on the trail, maybe it is time to find a place where you can ride faster without having to avoid slow people.

tjspiel

I think many people equate MUPs with sidewalks. While they would never just stand in the middle of the street, they will stand in the middle of MUP and assume that anything coming toward them will be moving slowly and/or go around them.

They'll also walk across without looking to see what's coming. Just something we need to be aware of as cyclists. It's like when I see a squirrel on the side of the road. There are rules, but it would be dangerous to assume that the squirrel's going to know what they are and follow them.

There are a couple of blind curves on a MUP I sometimes take part of the way home. This was a good reminder to me to take them slowly.

Just as an aside. I know of fellow cyclists even that get annoyed when roadies choose the road instead of a MUP running parallel to it. This is exactly why they do.

Jtgyk

Yeah....that's one way to go. (I probably would have added a soupcon of scatological expletives as well)


I was so relieved he was OK, that I didn't get mad and want to curse him roundly until I was down the block. That's when I started shaking so badly that I had to park for a while and let the adrenaline surge pass.

JeremyLC

I'm not the only one the trail. I saw, at least, a half dozen other riders going just as fast on the same trail. It is expected that there are fast moving bikes. It is NOT expected that people will be walking and riding the wrong way down the trail. I generally slow down around other trail users, too. These folks didn't do ANYTHING to mitigate, they just stopped and stared at me.

Chris_in_Miami

Glad nobody was seriously hurt, that can get expensive and litigious very quickly.

lshaped

there is a paved trail that i avoid during the warm weather months due to the proliferation
of walkers, strollers, zombies and joggers with ipods. i typically wait until the cold weather
chases these people indoors and leaves the trail wide open.
Even if you were riding below the posted speed limit you were foolish to ride
that fast when you know the path is littered with people. You might want to give
serious consideration to riding on the road-

myrridin

Glad no one was seriously injured.

Note that it is called a speed limit for a reason... From your description you were traveling excessively fast. Sure the pedestrians contributed to the accident, but so did you... What if instead of pedstrians it had been a fallen limb or some other obstruction? By your own admission you couldn't stop in time, therefore you were going too fast.

As to other riders going the same speed... I'm sure you remember what parents tell their children when they make such a claim...

As to their stopping and staring, I would guess that there wasn't a lot of time to react (speed ~ 30 feet per second)... There is a reason the startled response is called fright or flight.

Chris_in_Miami

This is the root of the problem, people do boneheaded and thoughtless things more often than not. If there was another cyclist approaching from the opposite direction at your speed, things could have been much worse.

atcfoody

If it makes you feel any better, I about cacked two ipod zombies earlier this week. The first was playing with a skate board in the middle of the road with 4 other folks, and couldn't be bothered to watch for on coming traffic, and the second was crossing the street to go to school (high school, for both zombies), and wasn't anywhere near a cross walk.

I'm glad no one was hurt in your accident, and honestly, the adults should have watching out a little bit. Obviously, they either suffer from brain lock or entitlement superiority syndrome. Both afflictions can be fatal.

D

JeremyLC

So, if I were driving and hit someone head-on because the were on the wrong side of the road it would still be my fault for going to fast? (this is basically what happened here) I already feel bad enough, I don't need J. Random internet guy beating me up over it. >

You're not my mommy, so come off it already. How are they not, at least, equally at fault here? They KNOW there are other fast cyclists (and I mean skin-suit wearing roadies who could drop me like a bad habit, and sometimes do) on the trail (they would've seen them for sure.), they KNOW there are people coming towards them.

You mean FIGHT or flight. In this case, self-preservation would dictate a "flight" response for most people.

Sayre Kulp 

I can totally understand and relate. This past weekend I almost ended up ditching off a trail and into a river (would've been a few broken bones or worse). I was riding on the SRT and came down a hill and around a blind turn (at about 12 mph) only to find "family hour" coming right towards me. 4 adults with 2 dogs on leashes and a little one on a bike weaving back and forth across the trail. I shouted as soon as I saw them, managed to avoid the child (barely - he weaved right in front of me but then right back away again) but I bumped into two of the adults. No one was hurt, except for me over turning my ankle trying to prevent a complete wreck. I was so furious, but bit my tongue. Sometimes there's not much you can do.

Personally, my pet peeve is when I yell "on your left" and get ignored by people walking abreast taking up the entire trail. So as I get closer I yell again and then they spin around only to jump (usually to their right / my left) and put themselves even further into my way. It tends to make me furious, but I just try to remember that not everyone knows "the rules" and at least they're out doing something. I just pray that they learn from the experience, though I suspect they probably won't.

truman

It would if you knew you were driving on a road that was likely to have 7 year-old "drivers", like you have on the RL trail.

7 year olds aren't "responsible" in any real sense of the word, so you and the kid's guardians must share blame.

That said, the whole "Blame" game is stupid and pointless. Whether you admit any culpability or not, the only question that matters is how you will mitigate the dangers you've discovered, going forward.

myrridin

Don't try to change the situation. You were unable to stop in time. That was your fault. Replace the pedestrians with a fallen tree and the issue becomes much clearer. Whose fault would the collision have been, yours or the trees? Just because the speed limit is posted at 20mph doesn't mean that traveling at that speed is safe. Like in a car, even when traveling at the speed limit, failure to avoid a collision can be evidence of unsafe driving.

I agreed that the pedestrians had a share of the fault ("Sure the pedestrians contributed to the accident, but so did you."), but that doesn't change that you were operating unsafely.
No I am most certainly not your Mother (or anyone else's), but couldn't help to point out an apparently childish attempt to avoid accepting responsibility.


I stand corrected it is Fight; however, the point is still valid (fight or flight is a fear response), that standing stunned is still a common reaction. Especially given that at the speed you were going (~30 fps) they only had a few seconds (at most) to respond. There lack of response is not why they shared fault, but rather the manner in which they were standing in the MUP. Your fault was in the speed you traveled that forced neither party to have time to avoid the collision.

JeremyLC

So, it sounds like you've pretty much decided that I am 100% at-fault here. Despite the fact that the other parties involved were in flagrant violation of expected protocols and posted rules. I already accepted my part of the blame, but you seem to want to beat me up some more, for whatever misguided reason. You have nothing of value to add to this discussion. You're wagging your e-finger at me saying "naughty naughty!". This is NOT helpful or useful in any way.

DirtRoadRunner

Happened to me too. Riding a MUP on my brand-new CAAD-9 (I had just started riding and wasn't comfortable on busy streets yet), when I kid in the other lane crossed the centerline about 10' in front of me. Plowed right into her at 15mph. Knocked her over, I came out of my pedals, went over the handlebars, and landed on the sidewalk. Amazingly she was fine - barely even scratched. I was banged up. The frame on my brand-new CAAD-9 (about 60 miles on it) was bent.

Condidering the circumstances I came out pretty lucky...I had to buy a new frame for the bike but didn't injure anyone or myself. FWIW, the girl's mom (she was maybe 7) was letting her wander unsupervised on the MUP and hadn't bothered explaining to her to look before crossing until after the collision.

I went through the anger/guilt thing for awhile myself, guilt about hitting a child (even if it wasn't my fault), and anger over having to spend $800 fixing a bike I had just saved for months to buy...

Fault is difficult to determine in a case like that. Both parties are at least somewhat at fault. I was going too fast in my collision and the mom of the kid put her (and me) in danger by letting her wander alone without supervision or any kind of rules.

Now I avoid MUP's at all costs and ride on the road 99.99% of the time.