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Old 10-07-10, 04:07 PM   #1
math is fun
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idiots in SUV's

While riding my bike today at about 21 mph on a street with a speed limit of 25 mph. Some ******* with his hat turned backwards zooms the half car length available to him and stopped abruptly by the heavy traffic on the road, and yells "hey bikes should get on the side walk!" as I ride past him. A mile later when I get to my apartment and stop, get off my bike and fish out my keys for a min then he finally catches up to me and says rude things about myself and my mother.

You know he's right slow traffic should be on the side walk, too bad its not wide enough for his barge of a car.
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Old 10-07-10, 04:13 PM   #2
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This happens to me pretty routinely on commutes actually. One time when a guy in an Escalade rolled up on me and told me that bikes belong on sidewalks, I told him that a-holes belong on toilets not SUVs- and then I got the hell out of dodge by jumping on a bike path.

On other occasions I've actually tried telling the people that no, actually- bikes with wheels > 20" are legally required to be on the road, but they don't believe me.
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Old 10-07-10, 04:31 PM   #3
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Math is fun indeed. Indeed...
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Old 10-07-10, 04:34 PM   #4
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You should have invited him in for a cup of tea and a scone.
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Old 10-07-10, 05:06 PM   #5
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I think that most of the drivers described in this thread actually know the vehicle code. It's just that it does not fit into their beliefs of their entitlements while on the road..
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Old 10-07-10, 05:09 PM   #6
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That's why I kept my Galeforce siren on my bike and a larger Aizound bottle. As they are shouting, I am blasting them while I keep saying "What? I can't hear you! Please scream louder!"
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Old 10-07-10, 05:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by math is fun View Post
While riding my bike today at about 21 mph on a street with a speed limit of 25 mph. Some ******* with his hat turned backwards zooms the half car length available to him and stopped abruptly by the heavy traffic on the road, and yells "hey bikes should get on the side walk!" as I ride past him. A mile later when I get to my apartment and stop, get off my bike and fish out my keys for a min then he finally catches up to me and says rude things about myself and my mother.

You know he's right slow traffic should be on the side walk, too bad its not wide enough for his barge of a car.
He was just pissed off because you got to your destination first despite paying vast sums for his over-valued colostomy bag of a vehicle.
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Old 10-07-10, 06:25 PM   #8
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"hey bikes should get on the side walk!"
Watch this: http://vimeo.com/2293166

It might make you feel better and it's only 22 seconds long.
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Old 10-07-10, 09:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bhdavis1978 View Post
On other occasions I've actually tried telling the people that no, actually- bikes with wheels > 20" are legally required to be on the road, but they don't believe me.
Perhaps because this is not universally true. In my local jurisdictions, bikes ARE allowed on sidewalks in most situations, regardless of wheel size.
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Old 10-07-10, 09:28 PM   #10
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No, I don't think we have gotten quite all of the idiots into SUVs, but we have certainly gotten an idiot into every SUV.
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Old 10-07-10, 09:46 PM   #11
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Here we've got allot of cops and EMT's on bicycles now so the idiots have had to tone it down. Also with so many cams on bicycle helmets now many drivers I think are worried about getting caught doing something stupid in case it gets to there insurance companies and they're financially driven out of there vehicles..
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Old 10-07-10, 10:38 PM   #12
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I don't believe you. Math is not fun. Well, maybe a little.
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Old 10-08-10, 05:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by bhdavis1978 View Post
One time when a guy in an Escalade rolled up on me and told me that bikes belong on sidewalks, I told him that a-holes belong on toilets not SUVs


(filing mental note)

I've never had that issue, but there is a road with a 20MPH speed limit that I ride, and once in a blue moon I'll be behind a car, we're both going over 20MPH, and someone will try to pass and get between me and the car I'm behind. It's bizarre.
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Old 10-08-10, 06:43 AM   #14
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I don't believe you. Math is not fun. Well, maybe a little.
Blasphemy.
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Old 10-08-10, 07:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by nelson249 View Post
He was just pissed off because you got to your destination first despite paying vast sums for his over-valued colostomy bag of a vehicle.
That's great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Watch this: http://vimeo.com/2293166

It might make you feel better and it's only 22 seconds long.
Another nice video Joey! I've got a slower connection at home, and it caused the video to play back in slow motion. The sound of you hitting the truck sounds like a bass drum, very cool!!
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Old 10-08-10, 07:03 AM   #16
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No, I don't think we have gotten quite all of the idiots into SUVs, but we have certainly gotten an idiot into every SUV.
Pardon me, but your narrow minded prejudice is showing.

Didja ever think that some or even many of the folks in this forum might drive SUVs and still <gasp> commute on bikes? I don't happen to own an SUV, but I might someday soon (as the available alternatives for large families keep dwindling -- RIP most minivans and station wagons). Or perhaps you're right, and if I buy one I will instantly become bike unfriendly (and suicidal?).

I know that your comment is meant to be hyperbole and somewhat tongue in cheek (right?) but I don't think it is helpful or interesting.

That said, I got yelled at by one or more teenage girls in mommy or daddy's Escalade ESV yesterday as I rode on the right hand side/shoulder of a divided 4 lane hwy. But I have experienced just as many rude events from small, economy cars. And actually, I'll put Porsche, Mercedes and BMW drivers (regardless of style or model) as top on my rude parade, far ahead of the run-of-the-mill SUV.
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Old 10-08-10, 07:48 AM   #17
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Same thing happened to me yesterday. I am adjusting from three years on night shift, so the daytime commute presents a brand of motorist idiocy I am not familiar with. Heading down Garden of the Gods Road yesterday; a road where I consistently hit 35 mph in traffic, I am faster than traffic at the interstate by about 5 mph. This good ol' boy in a huge white pickup/beast, speeds up only after I signal to get to the left of the right turn interstate merge, rolls down his window and mumbled something very loudly. I know, an oxymoron, and he was the latter half of that. He had to stop about ten feet in front of me, so while he was rolling up his window I flashed him the Terminator stare and asked if he was in such a hurry because he was running late for his OB/GYN appointment. Typically I don't respond to idiots, but I was feeling it yesterday. Plenty of folks around and there was no way he was exiting his vehicle at the merge of an onramp.
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Old 10-08-10, 07:53 AM   #18
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Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.
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Old 10-08-10, 08:01 AM   #19
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Pardon me, but your narrow minded prejudice is showing.

Didja ever think that some or even many of the folks in this forum might drive SUVs and still <gasp> commute on bikes? I don't happen to own an SUV, but I might someday soon (as the available alternatives for large families keep dwindling -- RIP most minivans and station wagons). Or perhaps you're right, and if I buy one I will instantly become bike unfriendly (and suicidal?).

I know that your comment is meant to be hyperbole and somewhat tongue in cheek (right?) but I don't think it is helpful or interesting.

That said, I got yelled at by one or more teenage girls in mommy or daddy's Escalade ESV yesterday as I rode on the right hand side/shoulder of a divided 4 lane hwy. But I have experienced just as many rude events from small, economy cars. And actually, I'll put Porsche, Mercedes and BMW drivers (regardless of style or model) as top on my rude parade, far ahead of the run-of-the-mill SUV.
Part of the problem with SUVs is not just the rudeness of the drivers (I don't think they are particularly worse than any other group of drivers for road rage), but the ridiculous lack of visibility they give to the sides and back. I think this contributes to a lot of right-hook accidents in SUVs and pickups, for example. So there may be a combination of intentional road rage and unintentional lack of visibility.

Statistically, pickup trucks are involved in more fatalities than any other vehicle type, just in absolute numbers (sports cars often have a higher fatality rate, but not nearly as many people drive them). This is in large part due to the fact that pickups and SUVs are far more likely to kill people in other vehicles than smaller cars are. Pickups, additionally, have problems with driver behavior (this is a well researched fact, not just a stereotype). People who drive pickups tend to drive more aggressively and drive drunk a lot more often (presumably in large part because the distribution of people who drive them skews towards young males).

Last edited by mnemia; 10-08-10 at 08:08 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 10-08-10, 08:58 AM   #20
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...but the ridiculous lack of visibility they give to the sides and back. I think this contributes to a lot of right-hook accidents in SUVs and pickups, for example. So there may be a combination of intentional road rage and unintentional lack of visibility.

Statistically, pickup trucks are involved in more fatalities than any other vehicle type, just in absolute numbers (sports cars often have a higher fatality rate, but not nearly as many people drive them). ... People who drive pickups tend to drive more aggressively and drive drunk a lot more often (presumably in large part because the distribution of people who drive them skews towards young males).
No argument that visibility in many modern vehicles is a problem, though not unique by any means to SUVs (feel free to take my conventional station wagon for a spin if you want to experience REALLY poor visibility!) But you are absolutely correct regarding the height problem of SUVs contributing to them not seeing smaller vehicles (including bikes... and small cars).

I'm more than willing to believe the stats on pickup truck fatalities, though I wonder -- does this include single vehicle accidents (which, if memory serves, are disproportionaly represented in motor vehicle fatalities, esp. among those same young males)? Are they disproportionately represented in pedestrian and bicycle fatalities? perhaps they are... though I bet there's very limited reliable statistical evidence.

Regardless: pickups start with a major disadvantage in any statistical battle regarding fatalities. First off, they are extremely plentiful (two of the top 5 best selling vehicles in the US remain full size pickups... despite a sharp decline, they remain on top. The #1 ford outsold the best selling conventional passenger car by over 100,000 units, which is a decline from when they outsold the best selling car by better than two to one.) So sheer numbers would seem to make the over-involvement of pickup trucks, as a segment, a foregone conclusion -- sure, there are lots more cars, overall, but not cars falling into any one segment.

They are less safe by design (and as a result of less safety regulation in the US), often modified by folks who don't really consider the consequences of those large tires, 4 inch lifts, extraneous accessories, etc..., and as you mention driven by the worst demographic. They are also massive, and the laws of physics will not be denied. This would be pretty significant in terms of the likelihood of a fatality in a multi-vehicle crash, as well as contributing to the frequency of single vehicle crashes.

I just get annoyed when people make generalized comments about drivers based solely on their choice of vehicle. While many use these as status items, or for ridiculous reasons (4 my dog license plates make me crazy), many are driven with reasonable forethought and due cause.
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Old 10-08-10, 09:05 AM   #21
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Yesterday afternoon while pedaling home, I was yelled at to “GET ON THE SIDEWALK, F*GG*T”. There were no sidewalks for miles around, and I’ve never been anything but a very satisfied heterosexual, so his comment made absolutely no sense.

He was the passenger of a small econo car. I gave him no recognition of any type.
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Old 10-08-10, 09:18 AM   #22
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No argument that visibility in many modern vehicles is a problem, though not unique by any means to SUVs (feel free to take my conventional station wagon for a spin if you want to experience REALLY poor visibility!) But you are absolutely correct regarding the height problem of SUVs contributing to them not seeing smaller vehicles (including bikes... and small cars).
I'd personally like to see some more detailed regulation on blind spots in all vehicles. If more and more bikes and smaller electric and hybrid cars are going to be sharing the road with them, it's more vital that they have good visibility.

Quote:
I'm more than willing to believe the stats on pickup truck fatalities, though I wonder -- does this include single vehicle accidents (which, if memory serves, are disproportionaly represented in motor vehicle fatalities, esp. among those same young males)? Are they disproportionately represented in pedestrian and bicycle fatalities? perhaps they are... though I bet there's very limited reliable statistical evidence.
Yes, the numbers I was reading were for ALL fatalities (including single vehicle accidents and fatalities in other vehicles involved in an accident with them). Most of the highest fatality vehicles were popular pickups (Dodge, Chevy, and Ford), so it seems that it's a consistent phenomenon. It didn't break it out as far as pedestrian and bicyclist deaths, and as you say, I would imagine that that is harder to study due to lower numbers and poorer quality government data collection than for motor vehicles.

Quote:
Regardless: pickups start with a major disadvantage in any statistical battle regarding fatalities. First off, they are extremely plentiful (two of the top 5 best selling vehicles in the US remain full size pickups... despite a sharp decline, they remain on top. The #1 ford outsold the best selling conventional passenger car by over 100,000 units, which is a decline from when they outsold the best selling car by better than two to one.) So sheer numbers would seem to make the over-involvement of pickup trucks, as a segment, a foregone conclusion -- sure, there are lots more cars, overall, but not cars falling into any one segment.

They are less safe by design (and as a result of less safety regulation in the US), often modified by folks who don't really consider the consequences of those large tires, 4 inch lifts, extraneous accessories, etc..., and as you mention driven by the worst demographic. They are also massive, and the laws of physics will not be denied. This would be pretty significant in terms of the likelihood of a fatality in a multi-vehicle crash, as well as contributing to the frequency of single vehicle crashes.
Also they are driven more often in rural areas, which means they get driven for more miles and at higher speeds over roads that are often poorly maintained in comparison to urban roads (location dependent).

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I just get annoyed when people make generalized comments about drivers based solely on their choice of vehicle. While many use these as status items, or for ridiculous reasons (4 my dog license plates make me crazy), many are driven with reasonable forethought and due cause.
Yes, I don't think it's reasonable to generalize about the behavior of ALL drivers of any vehicle type. But statistical information is not totally meaningless, either. It suggests that various factors are contributing to safety problems for some types of vehicles more than for others, and driver behavior is often one of those factors. Compare any pickup or SUV's total fatality rates with say, the Toyota Camry, and the Camry has a much lower rate. This isn't really because the Camry is intrinsically safer, although it certainly is less likely to kill other people should it hit them due to the construction and lower weight. It's in large part because of who drives them vs. who drives the pickups. Driver behavior is still a huge factor, and it shouldn't be if we were actually training people to drive properly and holding them accountable for their actions. For example, an SUV or pickup just inherently has worse side and rear visibility. So the driver response to that should be to be extra cautious about the possibility of people or cars being in their blind spots. If there is a difference in safety factors caused by your vehicle type, your driving behavior should compensate for that just like you wouldn't "drive" a bicycle in the same way you would drive a car.
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Old 10-08-10, 09:51 AM   #23
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We all get hassled by the frustrated motorists who don't believe we have a right to "their" road. I try to be completely deaf and dumb and give NO reaction, which is the only one that can minimize escalation to road rage (yes, smiling and waving can also be perceived as an escalation by some morons). But you will certainly find posts from me where I lost it, especially the one where I chased the guy down and tried to politely admonish him only to be confronted with anger and aggression.

Almost every time I've been buzzed, I will watch as that driver aggressively changes lanes and speeds off, endangering the other motorists as they disappear. The bottom line is these people are impatient, and they drive impatiently, which means they are endangering everyone.

Just try to remind yourself that for every abusive motorist out there, there were ten cars before them which passed you safely and considerately. It also helps to believe in karma: they will eventually suffer the consequences of their impatient and aggressive lifestyle. All we can do is hope we aren't the particular victim which brings that karma upon them.
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Old 10-08-10, 10:06 AM   #24
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Smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.
I say "thank you" some times, and that confuses people even more.
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Old 10-08-10, 10:14 AM   #25
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Blind spots can practically be eliminated by properly adjusting (and using!) the side view mirrors. Most drivers have them set them too far in. If the driver can see the side of their own vehicle, they have them set improperly for minimizing blind spots.

CLICK HERE and watch the graphics toggle between too narrow, too wide, and correct. Notice the coverage properly adjusted mirrors can provide.

By the time a vehicle is out of a properly set side mirrors view, the driver should be able to see it out the side window.

Last edited by AlmostTrick; 10-08-10 at 10:19 AM.
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