cooleric1234

Not sure where to post this but I figure people here probably have some good experience. Could also go in Touring or Cross forums I imagine.

I have some Tektro Oryx brakes on my bike that I really don't like. I've read the posts here about how to improve them and I've tried that stuff. Kool Stop pads, replaced link wire with straddle cable and set cable as low as possible, etc. Those suggestions helped, but braking performance still isn't very good. My brakes engage fairly quickly but I still almost bottom out the lever to get somewhat decent stopping power. I'm read to try some new brakes.

I was toying with getting some v-brakes and switching out my shifters and levers, but that's a pain. I thought I'd first try for what's considered a good pair of cantilevers (I'm not alone in dis-liking Tektro Oryx brakes - about the best I've heard is that some people get them to work fine after fiddling with them).

I'm most interested in stopping power (or mechanical advantage I suppose I like having some room in the levers for the real emergency stops). Low cost is second in importance (sorry Paul, not that worth it). Here's the short list from what I've read, any comments?

Avid Shorty
Tektro CR720
Shimano BR-R550
IRD Cafam

Al Criner

V-brakes will be the strongest but I have CR720s on my bike and I like them fine. If the high profile doesn't bother you they are effective and inexpensive - that is a good combination for me.

fietsbob

I have Scott Pederson SE Cantilevers on my loaded touring bike, on a thick wall tubed frame and fork , so the bosses dont torque the frame tubes

If you have Brifters , like all Aero road levers they have high leverage, thats why you pull the lever back so far
the cable pull is relatively short

I have not measured, but Cafam lever arms are pretty long looking . so the long lever thing comes in again. I have 30 year old Mafac tandem brakes they work .

1st lose a lot of pad to rim clearance on what you have. in the setup. close to the rim.

Note a cable out the top brake has more cable pull for lever motion
than Aero hidden cable types.

Get booster arches to keep the bosses from spreading under braking forces.

MTB Straight bars and Magura Hydrostop rim brakes, seem the best I've owned,
those on Trekking bars work too.

cyccommute 

The Cafam is similar to Paul Touring. They are better than old Avid Shortys in that they don't squeal as much and they provide adequate stopping power.

I don't know about the new Avid Shorty brakes and whether or not they've cured the squeal problem. They do look ugly, however.

Paul's can be had for around $77 per wheel compared to $38 for Cafam. They are that much better. Super easy to set up.

Leisesturm

V-brakes will be the strongest for only one reason: the cable housing runs all the way to the brake itself eliminating weak points of hangers, etc. There is no magic in 'mechanical advantage' over standard cantilevers. V-brakes have higher advantage, levers have less; standard cantilevers less advantage, levers more, net advantage = 0. For practical purposes that is. "Better" brakes will be 'better' for the usual reasons: lighter for a similar standard of construction, strength, if you will, fit and finish, etc. IOW post #3 nails it IMO. Invest in higher quality cable hangers, consider a brake booster and call it good. Levers shouldn't bottom and won't if 'give' in the system is removed. Maybe some better cable housing. FWIW.

H

OneIsAllYouNeed

Try to find some long-arm Avid Tri-aligns on ebay. They're the easiest to adjust cantilever brakes I've used (including Tektro Oryx and CR-720, Cane Creek SCX-5, Avid Shorty 4, Shimano Deore LX [similar to BR550] and Altus). You can set the straddle cable low and get some serious tire-squealing power out of them. Good pads make a huge difference, too. I'm a fan of Koolstop red and Velo Orange no-squeal pads. I've heard wonders about Empella Froglegs performance, too.

cooleric1234

So far, to get good stopping power from my cantilever brakes I've heard:

1. Buy new pads
2. Buy a straddle wire instead of the link wire
3. Buy a brake booster
4. But a better cable hanger
5. Buy better cables and housing
6. I contemplated buying new brakes, but every time I mention that people who seem to be in the know say to do something different, like what's written above. There are a lot of people that talk about different stopping power on brakes out of the box though. At what point is it worth it to get brakes instead of nickel and diming me with all of the above (presuming that actually works).

Maybe all that would work. Not worth it, I think I'll go the V-brake route. The only problem with that is I have cross-top levers, I guess I'll have to get rid of them or spend lots of money on the Paul ones that work with linear pull levers.

By the way, I didn't even mention in this post the problem I had with brake judder. Once I lowered the straddle wire I started getting the brake judder. I bought a fork mounted cable hanger, which fixed the judder, but I'm sure someone will say it came into play in decreasing the stopping power. Oh, and this is with a steel fork.

Is the Travel Agent as bad as I've heard it is? Would I get stronger braking performance going with v-brakes and the travel agent?

ratell

Sheldon Brown's article on cantilever says that "bottoming out" comes from too much mechanical advantage.

"If you have too much mechanical advantage the lever will be all-too-easy to pull, but it will run out of travel and bump up against the handlebar before the brake is fully applied. Once the lever hits the handlebar, it doesn't matter how much harder you squeeze! If you try to correct this by tightening up the cable, you will wind up with the brake shoes too close to the rim when at rest, which will cause them to rub, especially if the wheel isn't perfectly true. "

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html


I switched from the Oryx's to the CR 720 and am happy.

sauerwald

Have you tried playing with the length of the straddle wire on your canti's? You can adjust the mechanical advantage of traditional cantilever brakes by adjusting the length of the straddle wire - shorter wire means less mechanical advantage, longer wire means more, but more likely to run out of travel before you stop the bike.....

CCrew

The "judder" you refer to is usually improper toe on the pads.

I run the Tektro CR720's on my cross bike. I have no issues with them at all. I wish it had discs, but the canti's work just fine

Pigtire

I run the Tektro Oryx with the stock pads(Rims are Mavic MA3s) on my Trucker and I have no braking issues with it. The only issue I had was the rust from the front brake but other than that it worked nicely for me.

cooleric1234

Can someone verify this? I've had suggestions in the past that a lower straddle wire (ie shorter) actually means more mechanical advantage.

The odd thing is this, I notice that I have symptoms of both high and low mechanical advantage (which can't be right). Like I said, the pads are fairly close to the rim. But I can almost bottom out the levers. I just played with it and I noticed that about half-way through the lever pull it looks like pulling the levers further doesn't seem to pull the cable anymore. I started looking for any flex in the system. The only place I saw flex seemed to be under the bar tape, right at the bends in the handlebars. Maybe that's the problem? I'll unwrap the tape and tightly tape the brake cables along that stretch to see if that makes a difference.

That explains the symptoms of low mechanical advantage too. It seems I have to pull hard for a little more braking power. The brakes just feel weak and soft. Linear pull and disc brakes aren't like that at all.

bluenote157

I've used both the oryx and the cr720. I find the cr720 to stop better but this is not to say that I think the oryx suck. I'll briefly explain what I do to setup my brakes. Keep in mind that these cantis ship with inline type pads.

The main objective is really to have the arms parallel with each other at their fastened-to-the-yoke resting state. With this objective it appears almost impossible to have any space between the pads and the rim. To create some space, I rearrange the washers and cone washers so that the shorter spacer is closest to the pad. I just purchased a new set of mtn salmon koolstops. For whatever reason, they ship with the largest spacer closest to the pad. Maybe this is standard, but I reverse it and it works nicely and allows me to get to that parallel resting starting point. Once this is set, I feel that low/high yoke makes no real difference.

ratell

Read the Sheldon article. It's actually rather complicated. The simplified version is that mechanical advantage isn't good stopping power. when the yoke or the straddle wire is too low you have lots of mechanical advantage, but this means you can't stop the bike because the levers will bottom out without putting force on the rims. Raise the yoke/straddle wire and you will have less mechanical advantage but more stopping power.

Basically if you have the yoke/straddle too high there isn't enough mechanical advantage to stop the bike. As you lower it you'll get to the point where you get the most power. If you keep lowering it you will have too much and the levers will bottom out and you won't have stopping power.

In your situation I would try raising it and see if your braking improves.

LeeG

I put IRD Cafam on my LHT and moved the Oryx to the Cross Check. IRD stop better but I have no problem stopping with the Oryx

Sixty Fiver

The Shimano BR-R550 is a very decent brake and can be purchased for under 35.00.

My favourite canti is the XTR but these have been out of production for quite some time and a set on the grey market could run you $100.00 as they are just that good.

Properly set up cantis are every bit as good as V brakes... it is just knowing how to set them up that is a bit of a dark art for many people.

mikeybikes

I've not had problems with my Tektro Oryx brakes... but I know many people hate them. You just need to spend some time adjusting the straddle cable until you get to the right spot.

ratell

My experience with the Oryx was that when set up right they worked fine, but as the pads wore down they would get off a little and I'd get a horrible shudder in my front fork. The CR720's are easier to adjust and no squealing or shudder.

CliftonGK1

I'll throw my vote for the CR720. I've got them on my Cross Check with some KS Salmon inserts and they kick some butt.

pacificaslim

I switched to CR720 on the front of my last bike and it was quite nice. Use that tektro straddle cable holder so you can adjust up or down however much you want to dial in the feel you like.

On my current bike I just went with the tektro mini-v and though you do need to keep the pads closer to the rim, I like them even more than the cantis.

randomgear

What are you using for levers?
The Tektro levers on my ride have two sets of holes for the brake cable, if you have yours in the wrong holes it might cause you to have to squeeze them too much for the same amount of pressure on the rim.

cooleric1234

I have STI levers. They are (admittedly crappy) Shimano 2300 levers.

I raised the link wire a little bit, taped the housing along the bend of the curves tighter, and put the pads even closer to the rim. That was fine for my radial laced front wheel, I got it true enough. I'm struggling getting the rear wheel true enough to have the pads as close as I would like. A truing stand has long been on my list of stuff to get so I think I'll go that route. I know front braking is more important but I hate it when the pad engagement is different between front and back. The thin washers were already on the side closest to the rim. Front braking seems better, but that was just a spin around the cul-de-sac.

nashcommguy

I've got Tektro Onyx as well. Others have recommended products with which I've no experience, but it would seem any decent set of V-brakes(with which I do have experience) would be a sustantial upgrade.

The Tektros were stock issue w/t bike and they've given me no problems in 2.5 years and over 12,000 miles on the same pads. Time/mileage may seem high, but I commute rural and don't use my brakes that much.

CliftonGK1

It's not so much that V's are inherently an upgrade from cantis, but more that V's are easier to set up for optimal performance than traditional straddle cantis. Like others have mentioned; with a properly set up traditional canti, you've got just as much braking power as with a V.

hairytoes

V's have more leverage = more stopping power for same effort at the levers.

Cantis can be adjusted to give more clearance from the rims = less likely to gunge up with snow or mud, and more tolerant of out-of-true wheels.

I like the Empella Frog leggs, which are pretty much better quality copies of the old Mafac brakes. Lots of cyclecross racers use them.