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  1. #1
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
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    How about this for a new product idea?

    I rely on a floor pump at home, but always carry an inexpensive frame pump on my bikes - inexpensive because I figure it may get stolen, or perhaps get bent over a dog or something. I prefer the frame pumps that fit on to the frame by wedging themselves in by spring pressure, expanding the pump into the triangle, if you know what I mean.

    Anyway, the disadvantage to all of these frame pumps is that the pump head fits directly on to the valve stem, introducing the possibility that the stem gets ripped out of the tube while pumping.

    It occurs to me that a neat accessory might be an auxiliary piece of air hose with a male fitting on one end and a female on the other. It would be fitted on the pump head when needed, and the other end would go on the valve stem. It could be sold in two versions, one for Schraeder and one for Presta valves, or maybe even in a convertible version with Schraeder on one end and Presta on the other. Maybe there could even be a "Deluxe" version that incorporated an in-line guage. When not in use it would be rolled up and stashed in the seat bag along with the repair kit and tire levers.

    Does anyone already make something like this?

    Are the parts available such that one could home-brew one?

    What do you all think?
    Steel Club = BF-STL-00064

  2. #2
    Senior Member tjspiel's Avatar
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    They used to make frame pumps like that. Don't know if they still do or not. The hose fit inside the pump so it didn't require any separate storage.

    There are many pumps that incorporate hoses like the Topeak Road Morph. It's not a full frame pump in that you don't wedge it between frame tubes, but honestly I've found that pumps mounted like that usually interfere with something and are too easy to knock loose.

  3. #3
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    Run schrader valves,problem solved.I've never broken a schrader valve in 35 years with a Zefal pump,35 year old pump also.It's never magically fell off of my bicycle either.
    Last edited by Booger1; 12-23-10 at 11:10 AM.
    Everything should be as simple as possible...But not more so.---Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have a "nostalgia-repro" kind of frame pump like that on my 1970's 10-speed that is made by an outfit called Pyramid. It's all metal and chrome, and has a hose that pulls out of the end. I like it, and it suits the style of my old bike, but I don't really know how well if would really function as a pump.
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  5. #5
    mosquito rancher adamrice's Avatar
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    You could easily home-brew one. Take a defunct innertube and cut out the valve. Get a length of pneumatic hose with a 1/4" ID and a couple of hose clamps. Finally, get a pump chuck, something like this.

    Stick the salvaged valve into the hose with the pointy end out, stick the chuck in the other end, and clamp them down with your hose clamps. Voila. Stick the valve into your pump and put the chuck on your tube.

    I've seen Lezyne mini pumps that have a short hose that extends from the pump body.

  6. #6
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    I brace the pump head against the tire as I pump, with my hand.
    and don't toss that ring nut on the valve stem, use it.

    I built up a frame [With Human Powered Machine's Jan Vander Tuin's help ]
    Loaded touring purposed, parallel top tubes, that were also the rear triangle ,
    fit my frame pump between them, unlike on normal bike,
    When I lift the bike to shift it sideways, I don't knock it off
    like if under 1 round top tube.

    Aluminum barrel Blackburn frame fit pump, FWIW..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-25-10 at 10:22 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member jputnam's Avatar
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    I've never understood how people manage to rip out their valve stems using a hand pump -- how are you holding the pump head in place?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jputnam/collections/72157604835074312/

  8. #8
    Senior Member dlavi's Avatar
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    Check out Lezyne pumps. http://www.lezyne.com/products/hand-pumps

    They have a hose that can be used for Presta or Schrader.

  9. #9
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
    I've never understood how people manage to rip out their valve stems using a hand pump -- how are you holding the pump head in place?
    agreed... with over 35 years experience, and a lot of different pumps... I too wonder the same thing.

  10. #10
    xtrajack xtrajack's Avatar
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    I made an adapter to use with my Biologic seatpost/pump. The pump comes with a twist on connector, I wanted a regular thumb lever chuck. I just happened to have the parts necessary to make the adapter on hand, unfortunately I don't remember where I acquired my parts from in the first place.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member groovestew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlavi View Post
    Check out Lezyne pumps. http://www.lezyne.com/products/hand-pumps

    They have a hose that can be used for Presta or Schrader.
    Lezyne's rock. Pricey, but well worth it. I have the Road Drive L and it has a 6" hose that slips inside the handle when not in use.

  12. #12
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
    I've never understood how people manage to rip out their valve stems using a hand pump -- how are you holding the pump head in place?
    Well, honestly, I've never done it myself. However one hears of it so often that I just assumed that it must be a problem of epidemic proportions, and I must have just been lucky so far to have avoided it.

    So does this only happen to the terminally clutzy? Is it a Shraeder/Presta issue? I can see where the lock nut that is tightened against the rim of a Presta valve stem would help prevent the dreaded valve-stem-tearout-syndrome.

    Is it really not the problem that hearsay suggests?
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  13. #13
    Senior Member gear's Avatar
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    Topeak Race Rocket is a mini pump with a hose.

  14. #14
    Senior Member JonnyHK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gear View Post
    Topeak Race Rocket is a mini pump with a hose.
    +1 on that. http://www.topeak.com/products/Pumps/racerocket_silver

    It is a lot more reliable (ie the seal) and less risky (breaking the valve off).

    However, it's not going to help if you need to beat a dog down with it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
    I've never understood how people manage to rip out their valve stems using a hand pump -- how are you holding the pump head in place?
    Some of us are part gorilla. I've done it twice!

    I think once I actually tightened the ring nut too tight and literally pulled the valve stem through the tube. Like I said, part gorilla. I forget how I did it the other time - just hasty and careless probably. Both times I hadn't really been using presta tubes for long. Haven't done it in quite a while, and I think the odds of it happening to me again are pretty low now.

  16. #16
    Senior Member jputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpelle View Post
    So does this only happen to the terminally clutzy? Is it a Shraeder/Presta issue? I can see where the lock nut that is tightened against the rim of a Presta valve stem would help prevent the dreaded valve-stem-tearout-syndrome.

    Is it really not the problem that hearsay suggests?
    My question was genuine -- physically, how do people pull their stems out using a hand pump?

    I'm trying to picture how the pump transfers any meaningful force to the stem, and I must assume there's something different in the way the pump is being used.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jputnam/collections/72157604835074312/

  17. #17
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    Simply because I don't want to have to apply the necessary dexterity to a pump-up is the reason I buy mini-pumps with hoses. Every one I've ever owned has not only had the hose, but a little flip-down clip to step on and hold it in place as you pump.

  18. #18
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
    My question was genuine -- physically, how do people pull their stems out using a hand pump?

    I'm trying to picture how the pump transfers any meaningful force to the stem, and I must assume there's something different in the way the pump is being used.
    Well, even though I've never done it, I can see how it could happen. You have the pump head firmly clamped on the valve stem, and there's little or no air pressure in the tube to stabilize things against the rim (Presta valves, of course, are better here as one can tighten the little lock ring down against the rim). You are trying to push 100+ PSI of air pressure in to the tube by working this flimsy telescoping contraption back and forth with the flagging strength of your little bicyclist-skinny arms. In doing so, the end of the pump clamped on to the rubber valve stem, which is protruding through a hole in a thin sheetmetal rim, is jerking the stem back and forth. All this is taking place while the bike is precariously leaning against a mailbox or tree or signpost, your knees hurt from kneeling on the loose gravel, grit, and broken glass shards on the shoulder of the road, and 18-wheelers are roaring past 18" from your posterior, and you're pissed because this is the second flat you've had in two days and you already used your spare tube so you were forced to use the patch kit and had trouble finding the puncture, so you're not really sure you're not going to have to be doing it all over again in a couple of minutes.

    Yep, I could see how it could happen.
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  19. #19
    surfrider
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    What would really be nice is to have a handpump that screwed onto the valve instead of having to squeeze it onto the valve, then clamp it on. Back in the days of Schwinn Varsities and all-schrader valves, there was a pump model that did this. The end of the pumps hose had a fitting that you'd screw onto the schrader valve. After that was on you'd flip a 'lever' down (much like the lever on today's pumps) and that would open the schrader's valve to allow air to be pumped in. Pretty cool, and not as awkward as today's 'squeeze-it-on-then- press-the-lever-down' routine that almost requires three hands.

  20. #20
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfrider View Post
    What would really be nice is to have a handpump that screwed onto the valve instead of having to squeeze it onto the valve, then clamp it on. Back in the days of Schwinn Varsities and all-schrader valves, there was a pump model that did this. The end of the pumps hose had a fitting that you'd screw onto the schrader valve. After that was on you'd flip a 'lever' down (much like the lever on today's pumps) and that would open the schrader's valve to allow air to be pumped in. Pretty cool, and not as awkward as today's 'squeeze-it-on-then- press-the-lever-down' routine that almost requires three hands.
    That's what Lezyne's pumps do, at least apart from the lever to open the valve. They screw onto the valve stem, and have both Schrader and Presta models, too. That new Topeak one linked earlier will do both heads as well.

  21. #21
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    My buddies say throw away the not when changing the Presta tube. But I like to use it if just for looks. I suspect it helps to maintain alignment, avoiding the torn valve syndrome.

  22. #22
    Senior Member tpelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues Frog View Post
    My buddies say throw away the not when changing the Presta tube. But I like to use it if just for looks. I suspect it helps to maintain alignment, avoiding the torn valve syndrome.
    I was instructed that you should tighten the nut - finger tight - when you are pumping the tube up, then loosen the nut after it's up to pressure.
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  23. #23
    Subjectively Insane MilitantPotato's Avatar
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    I broke the core out of my presta stem before, the pump head slipped a little, the pumping action snapped the core clean out. I use an adapter now to keep that from happening again, I have it on hand anyway.

    A tube on the pump is a great thing, lets you set the whole deal down and use the ground as a support for the pump, instead of a table edge or your other hand. Hitting 80+ psi with a hand pump is no fun, I'd spend a few bucks on something that made it less of a chore, especially since it's winter and anything to make a flat change easier is OK in my book.

    I'd not buy a new pump solely for a tube though.
    You've got a bike, so you gotta move.

  24. #24
    Randomhead
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    Back in the Silca days, I used to smack the pump to get it off the valve. Never ripped out a valve stem. I'm sure it can be done though.

    My experience with the old Zefals that had a hose was so bad I really hesitate to try a pump with a hose. If the pump attaches directly to the valve stem you can hold the pump and steady the bike with the wheel with one hand.

  25. #25
    Senior Member jputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitantPotato View Post
    I broke the core out of my presta stem before, the pump head slipped a little, the pumping action snapped the core
    Can you describe how you were holding the pump head and wheel? That's where I'm still drawing a blank.

    For example, I hold the pump head in my left hand. The head is against my palm by the fourth and fifth fingers. My thumb is parallel to the valve stem, against the rim and tire. My index finger and middle finger wrap around the tire from the back side. Fourth and fifth finger wrap around the spoke next to the valve stem. Even using a Silca to hit 100psi with hypothermia in the rain there's no way the pump head can move enough against the stem to cause damage. Or at least it never has for me.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jputnam/collections/72157604835074312/

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