CptjohnC

We are vehicles, but we are not Motor Vehicles. We definitely are NOT treated the same as cars by the law, at least in the three jurisdictions that I ride in regularly. Here, bikes (including those operated by adults) are generally allowed to 'be pedestrians' - we can ride on the sidewalk, use crosswalks, etc... Whether I choose to avail myself of these options is a different (and variable) question, but to be rigid in one's adherence to vehicle classification seems like a recipe for disaster to me, at least in busy urban/ suburban environs.

Having said that: In situations such as that posited by the OP, I tend to behave similarly on the bike to the way I would behave were I in a car: Make space if it is safe and possible, don't if it isn't. I will say, when I am the first 'vehicle' I almost always stop ahead of the stop bar, if for no other reason that I want the cars behind me to trigger the lights (since, in my experience, the bike is hit or miss). Am I concerned about a ticket? No. Am I in violation? maybe... you ease past stop bars to get line of sight when necessary, right?

Fizzaly

OP just look up your local laws for reference and take a mental note and follow as closely that is safe. Every different state and city has different rules and regulations for this, and every city has different intersections that require different strategies for staying safe i can't provide any advise due to these. FOR ME Personally i stayoff to the right in the afternoons and when theres more traffic, in the mornings or light traffic i take the lane, that works for me but as i said im not familiar with your area. All in all just keep safety in mind.

tabriz

Well, people here carry guns and there is alot of road rage (Albuquerque). And being a woman, I'd rather not escalate things.

I've decided to avoid that intersection altogether. I can go around it and ride a different route that is actually nicer. It crosses the same road a block down, and that intersection is set up for bikes, so that there are lines painted between the right hand turn lane and the straight on lane, giving bikes a place to wait.

Tabriz

You did the right thing. F%&# 'em.

(And, this is just me, mind you, but when I am verbally 'abused', I tend to tell them to 'talk to the finger'.)[/QUOTE]

daijoubu2k8

I will position myself to prevent right turning vehicles from passing me on my left whenever possible. I never go straight through in a dedicated right hand turn lane even when the signs allow it. Too dangerous. My personal pet peeve is the pedestrian controlled intersection with a cyclist button. If I want to change the light I have to move completely to the curb inviting any cars behind me to pass me on the left to make a right turn in front of me.

scroca

I would have done exactly what you did. Although I might have turned around and asked him what his emergency was. If there was blood spraying out of his jugular I would move over to let him by, otherwise, I'd probably just shrug.

Stand your ground.

genec

Same here... I figure if they are signaling, I understand exactly what they want... if they are just honking, I have no idea... perhaps they are just saying hello.

I usually position myself at stops so a car can just squeeze past me... if there is room for me to share the road... if the road is really narrow, they are gonna have to wait.

I had a motorist fly by me on my left one time... crossing the double yellow line to do so. Just as he actually came up to the red light, he pulled right and had to wait for the car in front of him to make the turn. I went on up to the stop line, and when the light turned green, I went straight. His stupid passing effort yielded him nothing, except the potential to be hit by oncoming turning traffic from the cross street.

sggoodri

Some of the roads here have a wide corner radius that provides enough space for a car to turn right to my right even when I am stopped near the center of the lane behind the stop line. It's not enough space to encourage through drivers to pass me on the right.

I generally stop between the center of the lane and the left tire track; never farther left than the left tire track, and never leaving enough space for drivers to think they have a clear shot past me on my left. If there is no other through traffic behind me I stop over the center of the quadrupole loop to trigger it. I wouldn't move left for a driver honking, but I've sometimes done it for a driver who just had a turn signal on, and once a young woman in an SUV asked me politely through her open window.

One advantage to stopping where right turning drivers cannot pass you on the right is that they can trigger the traffic signal if it doesn't detect bikes, and nobody else is going straight. Lastly, in NC passing on the right in the same lane is illegal. The local police seem to be pretty clear on this point.

annc

Sure, rules are rules and must be obeyed at all times.

But if you can ride in such a way that is safe and efficient for everyone then why not? The concern about being in the crosswalk is that you're blocking pedestrians. If there are few pedestrians, then why not position yourself in a way to let others turn right? If there are many people crossing then there's no need to move into the crosswalk since the car behind won't be able to turn right on red.

exile

Sometimes they will honk regardless.

I've been in the left lane turning left and a guy behind me was honking and cursing away while I was ahead of him at the red light. He passed me honking and cursing only to stop a few houses away from where I was going.

I've also had people roll up beside me, roll down their window, and state they would like to turn (A situation similar to yours while I was in the right tire track of the lane at a red light). I simply said go ahead, they thanked me and they went on their way.

wisaunders

That's what I do... if I really have to stop at the red light. I take everything down a notch from driving when I ride.

Cage > Bike
Red light > Stop Sign
Stop Sign > Yield
Yield > Stays a Yield

electrik

Hahaha, I'm guilty!!!

capejohn

Only you can judge what is best. Sometimes you take the lane. Sometimes you move left or right and sometimes you get off the road. It's not that difficult, but you already know that.

comet the dog

If im in front of the line or even second or third at a light i take the middle of the lane, it has been my experience if i move too far to the left i have a hard time getting back to the right. And if i stay to the right i get buzzed as soon as there is a green light.

Seattle Forrest

I was in the right of two lanes in a car once, at a red light, and the taxi cab behind me, wanting to make a right on red, started honking at me. Some people are just obnoxious.

BarracksSi

Right, he wouldn't have honked because he knew that you weren't going to be able to move and leave room for him to turn right.

For a bike, there are several options -- far right by the curb (I don't recommend this), right side of the lane (right "tire track"), center, left side, and on the far left between lanes.

I prefer to be in the left tire track. It leaves plenty of space for left-turning traffic, and it puts me firmly in front of cars who are planning on going straight. When the light turns green, it takes all of two seconds to move back to the right side (or wherever is needed for that intersection).

BarracksSi

Oh, and don't forget this:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...mp-S-is-stupid

electrik

Honestly, if you were in a car they'd probably honk anyways... haha.

You'll have to excuse my peasant ignorance for not shuffling left like an overgrown penguin when his majesty's carriage approaches.

BarracksSi

It's easier if you just stop on the left side in the first place.

electrik

Promises promises... never heard the tire's squeal and been passed on the right and left at the same time have you?

BarracksSi

Nope. Maybe you were too far left and ended up on the lane markers.

electrik

Nope, guess again. Try driver swings around you on the right into cross-traffic's lane .5 seconds after you move 1 meter into the intersection opening enough gap. Either that or they come on the right, never make the turn and floor it when the light turns green. Driver #2, #3 is always right behind him and they probably don't even know you're there. When you relinquish control of the lane to a right-turner you relinquish control of the lane. I'd post the motorcycle education bit, they cover things properly.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to you yet.

BarracksSi

Whether they trigger the lights or not, I usually end up stopping even further -- past the pedestrian crossing, in fact. The way the crosswalks are marked around here, there's a few feet between the far crosswalk line and the "curb line", and then there's almost always a parking lane. Altogether, there's probably 10-15 feet that cross traffic and peds don't even touch.

This way, I'm not close to the cars stopped at the light, I'm not in an active traffic lane, and I'm not blocking pedestrians. Plus, I can get the jump on the light and be across the intersection by the time the driver behind me looks up from sexting his mistress.

BarracksSi

Did I say that I was in the far left? Nope.

There isn't enough room for a straight-through car. I'm directly in front of the driver, maybe in the middle of their car.

Don't they also teach motorcyclists to drive in the tire track to avoid the extra oil and grease that accumulates in the middle of the lane?

electrik

So, you are a car length away from the curb or not? How does stopping in the "middle of the car" make it easier than stopping on the right tire track?

unterhausen

Letting someone pass you on the right is a courtesy that most motorists don't extend to other motorists -- even if there is no penalty to them. The main drag through town is 4 lanes, and there are a couple of places where there are a lot of right turns on red. Do the motorists going straight move over to the left lane? No.