axel

I've been researching bikes intensively now for over a month. As I already own a folding 2007 Dahon Curve SL with 16" wheels and SA 5 spd hub, I'm now looking to buy a full size, upright geometry bike. I'm a 6' tall male who lives on a 4th floor walkup in NYC. My commute is only 1 2/3rd miles. Takes me 9 or 10 minutes on my folder. Even if I move and my commute is much longer, I still value a smooth shifting comfortable upright all-weather ride over a hunched over aerodynamic and lightweight ride w/quick acceleration. Aside from commuting, I want to be able to bike on weeknight evenings and on the weekends for pleasure, exercise and exploration as well. Here are the features I've been looking for:

REQUIRED FEATURES:
Internal Gear Hub - 7, 8, 9, 11 spd or Nuvinci N360
Upright Riding Position
Chainguard (at least to protect pants and ideally full chaincase to protect drivetrain)
Fenders
Rear Rack
Curved Handlebars
Lighting System

UNREQUIRED FEATURES
Frame Metal: Lean toward Chromoly
Frame Shape: Mixte, Step-Thru or at least a low standover height frame (might consider a diamond Retrovelo)
Wheel Size: Lean toward 700c
Brakes: Open to Roller, V-brakes or Disc
Dynamo Hubs: Would be nice but not a requirement
Price: Wide Open (would consider up to $2,500 if nothing else fullfills all my requirements)
Weight: Prefer around 35lbs but might consider up to 55lbs

I was awed by the luxurious ride of the Azor Workcycles Omafiets when I test rode it but it's just too damn heavy and big to be realistic for carrying up and down 4 flights everyday. But I do love the geometry and the utility (other than the weight ). I'm not a fan of derailleur bikes and though I'm male, I prefer the convenience and aesthetics of step-thru/mixte frames. I've looked at the Breezer Uptown 8 and Infinity for a long time but the geometry just doesn't seem upright enough. I do drool over the Nuvinci N360 hub. I don't see a currently available bike with N360 that I want. The Batavus Blockbuster is available through Rain City Bikes in Vancouver, BC but I can't easily test ride it and with the N360 it would weigh around 48lbs which is probably a non-starter. So I plan on eventually replacing the stock hub on the bike I do buy with an N360 - in the future when the stock hub has worn out.

The scarcity of bikes with real chainguards/cases is hugely annoying. I wear business casual at the office so I don't want to have to wears clips, tuck my pants in my socks or roll them up. Keeping water and dirt out to extend hub life is also a big reason to go for a full chaincase. But at a minimum, I need to know that I can hop on the bike without a care that my pants might get caught, chewed or even greasy. (And no, I don't really want to go the Gates Carbon Belt Drive route).

Since I like to ride to work in any weather, fenders are also a must - mudflaps are a plus but could be added later. It's nice to not have to adjust headlight angle on a battery light. I'm willing to accept extra weight and slight drag for the convenience.

The difficulty of finding bikes in NA with an upright geometry is also maddening. The only real upright options are usually small step thru frames designed for 5'4" females. I don't have to have a completely upright ride, but I don't want to have to do a bunch of after-market changes to get something like a Breezer Uptown to be more upright.

NYC is pretty flat overall. Uptown gets hilly but the many bridges are the main inclines one encounters. So I wouldn't consider a 3 spd hub. My SA 5 spd folder is pretty adequate. I would like it to go faster sometimes. It's plenty low enough. A greater number of smaller gear steps would be nice. Smooth shifting is also nice. While the Shimano 7 spd has narrow steps which I like, the 8 spd is smoother shifting - but I'm not sure if it's as durable.

I strongly lean toward 700c wheel size. I was amazed at how the Oma just rolled right over everything in its path. The Retrovelo's with their Fat Frank 26"ers are somewhat appealing. Quicker acceleration could be nice in the city but I still think 700c is going to be more comfortable.

On price, I'm willing to spend up to $2500 but would greatly prefer to spend <$1000. The only time I'll lock my bike outside (rather than store it inside) will be for a quick bathroom break.

Anyway, these are the Top 15 bikes(in no particular order other than ABC) I'm considering (based on what appears to be available in North America), with a few brief thoughts on each:

1 Batavus Blockbuster w/N360: probably too heavy/3000 miles from a test ride
2 Breezer Infinity w/N360: not upright enough/dorky aesthetics
3 Brodie Pax (purple step-thru) w/Nexus 7: Very upright, cool color/not sure whether it's big enough/closest test ride is few hundred miles and I don't drive
4 Civia Loring w/SRAM 9: too pretty/bamboo fenders too showy/cable shifter protrudes from frame/26" wheels not as smooth
5 Gazelle Toer Populair w/Nexus 8: Probably too heavy and bulky - though slightly lighter than Workcycles Oma
6 Novara Fusion (2011) w/Alfine 8: love the funky unisex chromoly mixte frame shape/Alfine 8 hub with disc brakes/chainguard looks dress pants friendly/hate the chain tensioner which adds unnecessary clutter and is crash vulnerable/overall great value for money
7 Novara Transfer (2011) w/Nexus 7: love the funky unisex chromoly mixte frame shape and retro colors/chainguard looks dress pants friendly/Nexus 7 spd has small and evenly spaced shifts w/big enough range/excellent value for around $540 (w/member dividend from REI)
8 Public M8 w/Nexus 8: love the classic chromoly mixte frame/8 spd hub and clean aesthetics/dubious on the chainguard
9 Raleigh Alley Way w/Alfine 8 Gates Carbon Belt: intriguing but my gut tells me this is not a tried and true thing/see belt drive as mainly a way to compensate for anti-chain guard bias in NA
10 Raleigh Detour Deluxe w/Nexus 8: love the 8spd w/Roller Brakes/frame and color are boring/not upright enough/rear rack offers low center of gravity for portage but no top deck
11 Retrovelo Paul w/Nexus 8: gorgeous blend of retro aesthetics w/modern technology/fat 26" wheels look fun/curved handlebars are nice/pretty upright/chainguard is borderline/price is hard to justify
12 Schwinn NX7 w/Nexus 7: Seems to have all the features I want at a very affordable price/probably have to travel far for a test ride/don't love the aesthetics but willing to overlook for such a good mix of features at this price/wonder about the quality
13 Torker Cargo T w/SA 5: love the practicality but one size fits all might be bit small for me/5 spd hub is not enough for me/might be a good one for N360 upgrade
14 Torker T-530 w/Nexus 8: Very comparable to the Schwinn/excellent value/not convenient to test ride
15 Workcycles Oma w/Nexus 8: A dream to ride but really only feasible on a ground floor apmt or with perfect bike storage area

I prefer the color of the Novara Transfer to the Novara Fusion. But I wonder how easy it would be to remove the chain tensioner on the Fusion and add a new shorter length chain. Would a mechanic charge much to do this? Would it be unwise to mess with the specs of the bike in this way? Does the bottom bracket of the Fusion require a chain tensioner?

The Schwinn NX7 and the Torker T-530 are both really excellent. The full chaincase with quite upright ride is sweet. If I could test ride them - I might go for one of them. The step-thru versions may be only big enough for average height females. The Public M8 is the closest in frame design to the Transfer/Fusion. I could get an M8 and add a Velo Orange Aluminum chaincase but that would kinda mess up the nice aesthetics they have going on.

So all things considered, assuming the Novara's are sufficiently upright - which they appear to be, my choice is between the two of them - leaning toward Transfer.

Any suggestions on bikes I might have missed with the aforementioned requirements? Does anyone have any experience with any of these bikes? Based on the above preferences, what bike do you all think I should go with?

bt93

Bianchi has an AlFine bike, I forget what it's called but it's on the Bianchi USA website, it's one more to look at. I like that it has a chain tensioner instead of having to try to align the rear wheel if you have to take it off. Most people who want this style of bike don't want that though.

canyoneagle

Very nice list!
For your budget you could probably build up a nice Soma Buena Vista as you like: https://www.somafab.com/bvista.html
I've heard really good things about the ride and overall quality of this frameset, and the builds I've seen are gorgeous.

meanwhile

Have you checked for belt drive bikes with an IGH? I think I've seen some shaft drive commuter bikes around too..

sjt78

Well I have a '10 Novara Transfer so if you have any questions you can send me a PM. The frame is really the only difference between this and last year's models. I see you are in NYC. Would you drive to an REI to pick one up or ship it? I had mine shipped as I'm a good 300 miles away from the closest REI. Having it shipped worked out great, actually it worked out wonderfully for me. It was packed extremely well and there was very little for me to setup. I love the bike and with the current sale (I bought mine last year during the same 20% sale...only time of the year it applies to Novara bikes) it is a wonderful value. The other bikes on your list sound great as well. I guess you need to decide what you really want. The Fusion needs the tensioner as it does not have the horizontal dropouts of the Transfer which is unfortunate. I don't like IGH bikes with a tensioner...to me it makes it look like an afterthought, but with the disc brakes it was probably their easiest/cheapest way to to do it. Like I said, if you have any questions let me know.

Cyclaholic

My top 15 favorite commuter bikes

1 My Surly LHT (because the LHT is the best bike ever created in the whole universe, and my LHT is my favorite because it's mine)

2 to 15 ...I don't care, it doesn't matter anyhow, you choose

axel

bt93 I liked the look of the older Bianchi Milano - contrast btw Celeste Green and red rims. I test rode one and it felt all wrong to me. Not at all upright. Newer one has the same geometry and don't like the chain tensioner. Thanks for suggestion though.

Sixty Fiver

You need to get out more...

Granted... the LHT is a splendid urban assault vehicle and all rounder but the choices are nearly limitless.

axel

Hmmm... I haven't looked into a custom bike before. The buena vista looks good to me. I see it does have horizontal dropouts. Presumably I could attach an N360 to it, and add disc or roller brakes for reliability along with hub dynamo, lights, fenders, rear rack and chain guard. Guess I could use either 700c or 26" wheels? Since all they make is frames, I'd have to shop a bunch of other places. I do alright maintenance-wise but I wouldn't dream of assembling a custom bike myself. Seems like a lot of fuss.

axel

meanwhile said "Have you checked for belt drive bikes with an IGH? I think I've seen some shaft drive commuter bikes around too.. "

Yeah belt drives sorta bypass the need for a real chainguard. But if I had to change out parts it could be a problem. I don't quite understand how a belt drive requires a slightly modified frame type. If I came across one to test ride, I could be swayed. I looked at the shaftdriven Amsterdam from Biomega. Pretty cool, but it sounds less efficient. Puts a lot of lateral stress on the frame. I think it's a bit too non traditional for me. Though I did see one available to test ride at Adeline Adeline in NYC. Maybe I'll get around to trying it.

axel

sjt78: yeah I saw your thread here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-disappointing
about how you didn't dig the new frames. Glad you like the one you have.

I purposely don't drive, but I may take a bus to the REI's in MD which seem to be the closest ones with these models in stock. If I love it, then I'll probably have one shipped to me. It's good to know that the shipping option was no sweat for you.

The 2010 Green Transfer you got is nice. It doesn't look as upright as the 2011 - wouldn't you say so?

I can almost go for the Fusion but the lack of horizontal dropouts dissuades me as it might be less favorable for adding an N360 down the line.

"I don't like IGH bikes with a tensioner...to me it makes it look like an afterthought" I agree completely. The Raleigh Detour Deluxe does offer the disc brakes but without the chain tensioner. Having recently meddled with my V-brake pads and now feeling competent to change them out with the new ones I bought, I feel like I could maintain V-brakes pretty easily myself. So I don't think I want discs if it means compromising on the aesthetics I'm after.

I'll have to pm you later to get your scoop....

no1mad 

What about the Breezer Finesse, Norco Ceres, or Tout-Terrain Metropolitan?

axel

On the Ceres - I see it has a threadless headset. Isn't that harder to change out than one that is threaded? It looks too bent over. The Tout Terrain Metropolitan looks like a very similar deal.

W/o a chainguard and way too bent over - the finesse is not in the running for me. But I'm sure it's an awesome commuter for those who don't care about these isssues. Thanks for the suggestions.

axel

Doh! I can't pm sjt78 till I get up to 50 posts. Well then I better get busy with that.

Abneycat

I've seen the Brodie Pax in person and take a look at it (seemed okay!), although I unfortunately never rode it. I did ride the Section 7 and Section 8, which are very similar bikes save for having cruiser-esque frames instead of a step thru, but my overall impression of them was that Brodie had their stuff together.

I personally own a Globe Live 2 in a diamond frame model, but there is a mixte version available. I threw on a nice wide leather saddle, added a dynamo hub and a rear rack, and it's absolutely perfect for the city! The geometry is really well suited towards the big front carrier they equip it with too. If you might enjoy having a flat front platform, this is a great bike. The half chain guard + chainring guard together are sufficient from my personal experience. The Live 2 actually comes in a size that would probably be appropriate for you, too.

In 2011, the Live is only available as a mixte in one model, which has horizontal dropouts. You could add a front disc, but not a rear one.

The 2010 models were nicer. They had an eccentric bottom bracket, which negates the need for a tensioner, allows easy wheel changes, removes the possibility of the wheel slipping, and allows easy use with disc brakes. The 2010 models had a chainstay disc brake mount.

There was also a 2010 model mixte which had belt drive and disc brakes as standard equipment.

If you dig the sound of that, you could probably find a 2010 model still - there are some shops in the area here at least that still have some around.

Oh yes! I was in the U.S. for the first time the other week, and wandered into an REI. The Novara bicycles you mentioned also looked really great, design wise. I wasn't much of a fan of the colours personally, but the rest was great. The tensioner on the Fusion also struck me as a bit funny, but otherwise it was definitely a nice bicycle.

canyoneagle

Correct assessment.
I ride a Norco Vesta, which shares the same frame as the Ceres, and the top tube is REALLY long. Definitely not in the vein you are looking for, IMO.

canyoneagle

Unless I accidentally oened the 2010 site, it appears the Live 3 is still available with rear disc, and comes standard with an Alfine 8.
https://www.globebikes.com/us/en/glob...d=11LIVEmixte3

canyoneagle

It does take some more homework up front, for sure, but building up your own bike allows you to tailor it to your needs. This is a stock frame, so would not be considered a "custom", but it would be a "frame up build".
The frame is not compatible with discs, so pass on it if that is something you desire.

I think you'd find the process to be very fun and engaging, and I'm sure a number of us BF loons would love to help you spend some money on your build.

The actual assembly could be done by a bike savvy friend (i.e. fellow BF'er in NYC or a local shop) with your participation. It is very satisfying to see a build come together.

Cyclaholic

Yeah, I know... just poking the hornet's nest for laughs

sjt78

I sent you a PM.

squirtdad

belt drives need a frame that you can "break" since unlike a chain you can't break a belt. one or the other has to break to get it around the chainstay.....for for belts it is the frame. best guess is that if you go belt you will be more limited in future change outs.

canyoneagle

Yep, the current belt market is pretty basic. Essentially direct replacements for any worn out items (which apparently take many miles to wear out).
Any belt-driven bike can very easily be converted back to chain drive at any time.

no1mad 

Maybe something from Felt's Cafe line will spin the OP's cranks...

axel

"I've seen the Brodie Pax in person..." Thanks for the thoughtful post Abneycat. Yeah, Brodie seems to get the features I'm after better than the American BMs. I find it rather hilarious that they named a bike "Section 8". Gives a new meaning to the phrase "I'm on Section 8".

The Globe Live series does impress me with its looks. But the straight fork means a responsive ride which means being less relaxed because it is easier to turn so you have to pay attention more. Then again, maybe I should go for nimble handling. Even though I'm in the big city, I tend to gravitate toward bike lanes/paths and narrow sidestreets.

I think I'd prefer having a rear rack on all the time, rather than that rather wide front rack. This bike seems to be going for cargo utility with looks in mind. I'd rather go for efficiency with comfort and style.

Help me out here BF'ers - the kind of stem like you see here: https://www.globebikes.com/us/en/glob...sp?pid=11LIVE2
is threadless right? I've heard it said that a theaded stem is easier to adjust and or change out - if I want it more swept back or upright. Is this correct, or am I still ignorant here?

Thanks for your vote of confidence on the REI bikes.

axel

Thanks for the enthusiasm canyoneagle. I look forward to having more bike savvy friends. I'm not exactly hellbent on spending big dough. I guess at this stage I'd be more inclined to get a moderate priced bike - after fully studying the market. In the future, with more experience about what I like and don't, and more $, perhaps I could be tempted to do a frame build up.