axel

Ahh, squirtdad, this is the info I was seeking. I guess I'd have to see some axiometric views of a belt drive's chain stays and hub to understand the way in which this looks different from normal bikes. Stills seems a bit new-fangled to me. I like the retro look of the 2011 Novara Transfer and disc brakes and/or a belt drive would ruin that - since those things didn't exist on bikes in the mid 20th century. Aside from aesthetics, I'd rather let the early adopters learn about belt drives than me being the one.

axel

Ughhh. I don't see anything from them that has an IGH. That's my foremost necessity.

axel

Probably going to test ride the Transfer and Fusion in MD this WE. If the frame fits right, the ride is sufficiently upright, and the gearing is tasty, I'll probably pull the lever and order one. I'll have to chime in here to share my impressions and get others reactions. Glad to have the input from everyone.

Abneycat

You are entirely correct about the Globe Live. The fork is a high offset fork, and the head angle is steep. The idea is to give the bike a low trail which is intentionally done in order to provide good handling while the front basket is heavily loaded. It does make for a much more nimble, but less self correcting characteristic. For the purpose of carrying things on the front of the bike, it's perfect. But if you are not interested in that aspect, it may not appeal to you. Only a ride on a bike with this characteristic would tell.

Threaded / threadless: Threaded stems can be moved up and down as long as minimum insertion limits are paid attention to. Threadless stems are height adjustable "to a degree" (stems can be flipped for positive / negative angle, spacers can be placed above / below stem if space permits, extension adapters are available to raise the stem up if the steerer is too short), overall threadless stems are not as easily height adjustable.

Parts availability on 1 1/8" threadless is the best. 1" threaded stems can still be pretty easily obtained, although they will be a special order at most shops nowadays. 1 1/8" threaded has limited choice, but a few stems are out there.

Adjustable stems where the angle can be changed are available for either threaded or threadless.

Overall, for a casual commuting bicycle, either one will suffice. If you had a threadless system and really needed an extra 2" of rise, adapters are available, and if you needed that from a threaded system, stems with very long quills are available - if you need more than that, there is probably an issue with the fit of the bicycle overall from the get-go.

Oh, REI is having their 20% off sale too!

no1mad 

You must've overlooked the Cafe 3. Alloy frame and you'd have to provide your own rack, but has the Nexus 3spd IGH.

There's also Giant's Via 1. Or maybe the Electra Amsterdam line would suit your needs?

As far as the belt drive aversion, it's cool. It may be new to the cycling world (human powered), but it's proven tech that's been used on motorcycles for decades...

no1mad 

Though you'll probably want to try before you buy, Bikes Direct has a new line of City bikes- some with 3spd IGH.

dchsueh

Integrated threadless headset.

I took the front basket off of my 2010 Globe Live 2 to make the bike lighter for less strain on my tailgate-mounted vehicle bike rack. The steering is much faster with the basket off, and my impression is that the weight of the front basket (4lbs) helps slow down the steering with its inertia. I got used to it very quickly.

From examining the product images available on the Globe website, the 2011 Live 2 frame looks like it's missing the rear dropout disc mount and probably lacks the two-bolt kickstand mount, both present on my 2010. The 2011 Live 3 rear dropouts appear the same as the 2010 Live 3 and 2.

canyoneagle

I totally forgot about this one https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...bellevillewsd/
I've read some great stuff about these and the price is certainly reasonable.

A Nuvinci conversion would be pretty easy to do, whenever the time is right.

Eileen

The Belleville is a piece of trash, mine (and I had TWO, Trek replaced the crappy, defective one with another crappy, defective one) had me crying. Buy it if you like a mixte with a huge, ugly downtube and want to replace almost everything else on the bike. The fenders are pretty, but they rattle so badly that you'll at least need to add a stay -- I replaced mine with SKS fenders. The racks will arrive bent (they did on both of mine). At least one fender will probably be bent (rear was bent & warped on bike #1, front on bike #2 -- but see my comment about them rattling). The taillight is ok, but the headlight is a joke. The one-piece stem and handlebars? I hope you don't want to adjust them at all. If you do, you need a new stem AND handlebars. The pedals are probably made in an 8th grade shop class from pepsi cans. The brakes will not stop the bike well if you intend to carry any sort of load. The day I got my money back for it was a good day.

You may like the Belleville frame. But for the price just get a Soma Buena Vista and build it the way you like it.

Big, huge vote for the Retrovelo, though. I love, love, love my Paula. Yes, it was expensive. But it is an absolute joy to ride and I know that I will love it for many many years.

canyoneagle

OOh.
Great to hear this, as it is the first gritty experience I've seen. I bet most of the reviews out there are the typical "enamored with the new bike" prose rather than experience after months of use.

Thanks for this reality check.

Oh, and the Soma really is beautiful.

As is the Retrovelo.

fietsbob

I would throw in: a UJB, overhauled , substitute a IG hub wheel,
and a Dyno Front hub .

A big fan of drum brakes in a jump on and go bike. current SA has both hubs.

Generic paint , a way to carry a heavy lock and chain, to keep it.

axel

Hmmm....

I saw these geometry specs:

Frame Size Small Medium Large
Height range 5'3" - 5'7" 5'7"-5'11" 5'11-6'3"
Seat Tube Center-Center 15.7 18 20.5
Effective Top Tube 21.5 22.4 23.6
Standover 27 28 28.5
Rear Center 17.5 17.5 17.5
Wheelbase 42.2 42.8 44
Fork Offset 1.7 1.7 1.7
Head Tube Angle (degree) 70 70 70
Seat Tube Angle (degree) 73 72 72

for Novara Fusion from this link:https://www.bikesfortherestofus.com/2...ra-fusion.html
I would assume these apply to the Transfer as well. Don't know where BFTROU got this info.

Rei says the large/xl is meant for 5'9" to 6'3". That makes me think I should get the large. But if the specs from the blog are right, at slightly under 6', maybe I should go for the Medium 5'7" - 5'11"? I do want an upright ride. Going for a smaller size will make it more upright - right? But OTOH, I could change out the stem and bars with an albatross and make a large more upright. I guess I should still test ride - despite the 4 1/2 hours it will take to get there.

EDIT: Now I see the specs do come from REI for their Novara Fusion/Transfer bikes. I must have seen some graphic that applies to bikes other than these.

When they say effective top tube for the large = 23.6", I assume that means the distance between the seat and the head tube. The actual length of such a slanted top tube as on the this Mixte frame would be considerably longer than 23.6" - I gather. The large will presumable have a higher headset and thus handlebars - but the uprightness of this will be offset by the longer top tube.

I see the asterisk on all the sizes indicates they are all on backorder too. I still am not certain that the large wouldn't be too large. Guess I gotta get on the bus and see them in person.

axel

What is a "UJB"?

I too like the notion of drum or roller brakes for an anytime riding city bike.

axel

Works for me. Looks like a majority of the bikes I'm considering are threaded stem. I figure I might end adding a stem like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ill_stem_2.JPG

axel

Oh I didn't see the cafe 3. I like the chain guard a lot. The overall look of the bike is kinda generic though. I'd have to change out the hub. It's actually pretty upright too. Might consider if it came with a better hub.

The Electra Amsterdam was a contender early on, but I heard too many reviews of it's lesser quality. Perhaps that's unfair in comparison to an Azor or Gazelle.

The truth is I really ought to give a belt drive bike a test ride. But I can't hold off on buying for much longer. I'm going crazy. I'm losing sleep staying up late to surf the net learning about bikes. I've been seeing bikes in my dreams and getting robbed of expensive ones in my nightmares.

axel

$450 for the Cafe Express is awesome but it has no chain guard. It's the only one I see with higher than a 3spd hub.

axel

Thanks for the warning. I don't dig the look of the Belleville anyway. I like the mixte option but those flat brown leather handlebars, and the blocky decal in cursive with the cream color makes the bike look so preppy. It's the kind of look that would go with a guy who wears brown leather docksiders sans socks with a polo shirt in the summertime; Not my thing!

Glad you dig your Paula Eileen. I prefer a stepthru but they don't make a large enough one for my height. If I did go with a diamond frame, the retrovelo would be the most likely design to grab me. The Fat Franks are unique, but I still long for a 700c bike. I've always had 26" wheel bikes - excepting my current 16" wheel folder.

h2odog

I think you should take a look at Linus bikes. The new Roadster 8 with a Nexus IGH is a great steel bike with an upright riding position, fenders, rack and leather covered saddle and Schwalbe tires for about $875.

sjt78

The Roadster 8 looks nice, but I don't think it is as good a value as the Novara Transfer/Fusion bikes especially at 20% off right now. Frames sizes are a bit limited at only two for the Roadster. I guess manufacturers are trying to save money by offering fewer frame sizes.

canyoneagle

Given my druthers, amongst the dizzying array of bikes, if it were me, I'd go with the Oma and figure out a workable solution for getting it into the apartment. Extra weight be damned - that bike would be awesome. Or a Pashley.

axel

I was digging the Linus bikes for a while. I just can't stomach a plain diamond frame w/out a chainguard unless it's a real stunner like the retrovelo paul. The dutchi 8 only comes in 45cm and the mixte 8 only comes as big as 49cm. Even with the last two, I'm dubious the chainguard would really be scuff free.

I agree though, that for those wanting a d frame, the roadster is a good value with classic looks.

axel

Damn canyoneagle - you are tempting me. I test rode a 53cm model from Adeline Adeline in the Tribeca area of Manhattan - definitely a Cadillac smooth ride. Conveniently, the shop is located in one of the flattest areas of the city with nary an incline of any height for miles around in any direction. I might go back and test a 56cm Oma by taking it for a spin across the Brooklyn Bridge. If the gearing could make that seem doable, I might not be able to resist. Just getting it up the 2 steps and through the double doors when I brought it back to the store was a bit of an operation. The heft is undoubtedly a big part of what gives the posh ride.

I'm 6' and 160. I ain't no string bean. I could probably carry it up 4 flights on the adrenaline of joy I get from riding it. I think the store said it weighs btw 55 and 59 lbs. But in NYC, unless you've got a huge elevator, or a 2nd floor apmt with some decent space (2nd floor because the 1st gets all the noise of cars and drunk people when you're trying to sleep - so wouldn't live on), it's probably a rather asinine contraption to own.

But still! The ride was so stable. You feel enveloped by it. On a normal bike you feel like you could get knocked down by a too sharp turn, or a sudden/too abrubt stop but the oma feels so much harder to lose control of (ice would still be a concern). Turning was such a joy. I don't suppose I got going terribly fast but you view speed in a whole different way on such a bike. And you experience your surroundings much more. Its hard to contain a smile. You can cruise the middle of the street at a leisurely 15 mph while feeling more assured that cars can see you. Must be a joy to ride in the rain - knowing that the bike can protect the drivetrain and you from all the muck on the streets.

Anyway, I booked a bus ticket. I'm gonna test ride the transfer and fusion 2morrow. Trying to decide between Lg/XL and Sm/Med. If I had the space, I'd get the Transfer and the Oma. As it is, having both in NYC would probably mean not having a girlfriend. I dunno.

sjt78

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

axel

Test rode the 2011 Novara Transfer yesterday. I was significantly impressed but not quite wowed. It was immediately apparent that for being a hair under 6’ tall, the Lg/XLg was the correct size for me. Since this is marketed as a unisex frame, the Xs/Sm would be for shortish women, while the Sm/Md would be for taller women and shorter men. The colors of the bike were more muted than how it appeared on the REI website. Instead of a medium brown with yellow tan fenders it was more a greyish or tannish brown w/tan fenders. Kinda boring but a stealthy look is less a target for vandals and thieves which suits me fine. When I first saw the Transfer and Fusion parked right next to each other, both bikes had more of a comfort bike look than I was expecting – with their high and curved handlebars, comfort grips, large wheels, fenders etc.

I purposely dressed in a pair of bell bottom corduroys to test the propensity of the chain ring to cause snags. Right away, I noticed my pants briefly seemed to catch on the front bottom edge of the chain guard. The wind must have blown it in such a way. But it quickly uncaught itself before actually stressing the fabric. The whole rest of the hour I test rode it, I had no problem with my pant leg catching. The combination of chain guard and bash guard on the chain ring did their job. If a full chain case provides 100% protection to your pants from the chain ring, I’d say the Transfer’s one probably provides about 90-95% protection.

In seeing a man in his 50’s test riding the Fusion (while I was), I found myself feeling old on the bike, but the ride felt mature and grown up in a good way. I had the REI technician guy raise the seat and move it as far aft-ward as it would go. I still wanted a higher seat (I would have raised it another inch myself) to get more leg extension. Don’t think he raised it as high as it could safely go. My back angle was probably about 75 degrees upright. Think an albatross would probably take it as far upright as I would need. The guy explained that you can pull off the grips with a compressed air gun or by pouring some isopropyl alcohol in there. It has a 1” threaded headset. He said changing out the handlebars could easily be done for not much labor cost.

While still wanting a bit more leg extension the ride was plenty plush and Cadillac-like. The Vittoria Randonneur 700c tires were pretty narrow which gave a nice low rolling-resistance ride that I think is a lot smoother than 26” tires. Turning was majestically stabile. The gearing gave no trouble at all. The Shimano Nexus 7 speed hub was very quiet - though I did hear a tiny and minor sound as I pedaled that seemed to come from the bottom bracket – couldn’t tell for sure. You didn’t hear any real click when changing gears but they engaged swiftly and surely for both up and downshifting. Can’t imagine 1st gear not being low enough for any hill/load combination I would ever do. With 4th gear being approximately direct (.989), I had 3 gears to go lower and 3 gears to go higher. I could easily start from 4th gear; or from 3rd gear if I was feeling lazy. I was afraid the 700c wheels would be hard to accelerate but I didn’t find that to be the case. In shifting from 4th to 5th, and 5th to 6th and 6th to 7th, I could really appreciate the closeness and evenness of the gear spacing. On my Sturmey Archer 5spd hub folder, going from 3rd (direct) to 4th is a huge 27% jump. The Transfer’s 5th gear comes on with a gentle 1.145 ratio. I found myself really enjoying the gear steps along with the ease of shifting. I’m of the opinion the slightly larger range and somewhat easier shifting of the 8 spd Nexus wouldn’t be as nice as this – given the closeness of the gear steps. 7th gear got me going plenty fast. I was not close to spinning out, but to be fair, I was on flat ground the whole time. Downhill, it would surely spin out but likely take you fast enough. Since there were no hills, I couldn’t test climbing ability but it seemed like it would be plenty doable for moderate hills. The V-brakes were powerful and smooth – as in not too abrupt.

The workmanship, parts and build quality all seemed robust and sturdy. However, I did notice the paint job seemed to have small hairline cracks underneath the gloss in a few places. But it was not a big deal and hardly noticeable unless looking at it closely. The fenders had plenty of heft and seemed to be long enough to effectively repel upspray from wet roads in the rain (it was a dry day – but I’m just saying this based on my experience). I wouldn’t recommend having your girlfriend ride on the back rack (like on the Oma) but it felt quite strong. I could detect no flex. The brake handles seemed durable. The weight of 36.6 lbs felt noticeable but quite tolerable for anyone of at least moderate size to lug up and down several flights of stairs on a daily basis. For being about 20 – 25 lbs lighter than the Omafiets, I’d say the ride quality is excellent given how much more portable this bike is. The wheel base is surely less, and the ride isn’t quite so grand, but the somewhat less plush ride seems a good compromise for weighing so much less. The transfer feels about 2/3rd to 3/4th as comfortable as the Oma compared to a typical bent over derailleur road bike. Even if both bikes cost the same (which of course they don’t – the Oma costs almost 3 times what the Transfer costs), I’d prefer having the much lighter Transfer unless I had easy and secure 1st floor bike storage - which isn’t easy to come by in NYC. And even then – the Transfer feels a bit faster and more capable on hills.

In daylight, I couldn’t really test the dynohub-powered front light. I was told turning it on adds a small increase in drag. But I could discern no difference in drag between the on and off position, so any additional drag is miniscule. The battery powered rear light seems like it would be fine.

Having said all this, the bike does feel a bit clunky. It’s hard to imagine someone under 25 riding it in the USA. Where this bike excels is in moderate speed cruising in neighborhoods. It was a joy to briefly engage the other test rider in conversation as we rode along together. It’s the kind of bike where you could do that – find yourself starting conversations with others or having them start ones with you – with either pedestrians or other bikers. I asked a young woman sitting down outside on break from her job to tell me how upright my back posture was. The joy and ease of human interaction that is possible on a comfortable upright bike like this was palpable. My worry about whether the bike would be upright enough was pleasantly assuaged.

At this point I’m still mulling things over a bit. I’d like to get some feedback on this review from fellow bf’ers before I decide one way or another.

canyoneagle

Great write up!

Ya know, the (Workscycles and Gazelle) Oma model is available with an 8 speed. Hey, just sayin'

bwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

https://www.mydutchbike.com/bicycles/...-and-opafiets/

https://www.mydutchbike.com/bicycles/...-and-opafiets/


The WorksCycles Secret Service might be a little lighter.
https://www.mydutchbike.com/bicycles/secret-service/