RubeRad

I think if you want 'CrossCheck-but-lighter' for that budget, your best bet might be to look for a frame or complete bike on CL, try to buy a vintage touring bike with like 531 DB tubing and the type/amount of braze-ons you want, spend like $500 for a whole bike, and you have a lot of budget left over to swap out parts.

Thrasymachus

@RubeRad:
I don't have the competence or desire to build a whole bike up, and not only that but buying parts gives you less buying power. It is not that hard at all to find a utilitarian cyclo-cross bike that is lighter. At the closest bike store I test rode a 2013 Jamis Nova Race(but it didn't have fork eyelets...) which is $1300 and listed as 23.75 lbs. There is also the Specialized Tricross Comp Disc Compact at $1,950 which has fork and rear eyelets and according to a reviewer on Specialized's site, is under 23 lbs. There is also the Trek Crossrip Elite.

RubeRad

Sounds like you've answered your question then!

Simpletommy

You asked, I replied. This Thread is otherwise not the place for that question.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Cross Check Lovefest.

the sci guy 

i'm seriously counting the days until i can buy a cross check. it might not be until next year, but god i want one so bad.

eofelis 

I really wanted a Cross Check and then I discovered that this bike
https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...fantom_cxx.htm
looks to be the same exact frame as the CC. Spec'd better and is cheaper than the CC at $800.
I got one of these bikes last year and it rides very nicely, just as a Surly should. It's pretty much a CC clone.

RubeRad

Interesting. The differences I'm seeing are: top tube not level, seatstays and headtube less vertical (I can never remember if that's steeper or shallower), but I think that will tend to give it a longer wheelbase, except it doesn't have the near-horizontal dropout, so you can't adjust the wheelbase or run SS without a tensioner. Also no rack mounts on the fork. The spec tires are 700x32, BD doesn't say how much wider you can go. Have you kept the stock tires, or have you tested how wide it can go?

I don't know how big a difference those frame angles would make, probably it's a decent clone of part of what a CC can do, but not completely as flexible. But for only $799, if you are not interested in SS or front rack, why pay extra for it? (And also, as you note, the SRAM apex 10sp is a good bit better than the mix on a stock CC)

Andy_K 

Here's the problem. A Cross Check is heavy because of its utility. The frame itself is not that much heavier than most others. Even a super-light carbon frame would only save you around three pounds. The weight of the Cross Check is distributed all over, and that's because all of its components are chosen for durability (and some cost savings). You can build a 21 pound Cross Check, but once you add things like durable wheels, gears, fenders and a rack the weight is back up.

eofelis 

The CXX frame does have the same semi-horizontal dropouts as the CC does. I still have the original tires but I put Performance brand Forte Gotham tires on the bike (700x32). I haven't tried wider tires yet. My SO has an older CC and he thinks the CXX is just the same frame. His CC does not have mid-fork rack mounts either (newer CCs do). He used U clamps when he put a front lowrider rack on his CC.

When I compared the CC and the CXX geo for my 42cm size the numbers were identical, so I bought the CXX. Maybe the numbers differ in larger sizes.

the sci guy 

well i'm only 5'5", so chances are i'd end up with the CC with the 26" wheels - even though i'd love a bike with 700c. i'll keep the CXX bookmarked and in mind.

eofelis 

None of the CCs or CXX bikes have 26" wheels. My 42cm CXX has 700c wheels. It does have significant toe overlap but I can deal with it.

the sci guy 

sorry i could have swore i saw that in the description on the surly website but now i don't. i must have been thinking of the LHT. my bad.

what is toe overlap?

Loose Chain

Many medium frame (58/56) and smaller 700c wheel size bike that have failrly steep angles will have toe overlap. Toe overlap is normal and not a design flaw specifically. Toe overlap, is when the toe (of your shoe) can overlap the front wheel. At very low speeds where you might turn the bars past your toe, you could strike the wheel and for beginner riders, unaware, could fall and bust their butts. Once a rider is aware, it really is a total non-issue.

That bikes direct bike linked above is not at all like a CC. The weight of a CC is much exaggerated. It is possible to build a stripped CC below 23 pounds and once upon a time that was the demarcation line between a true quality lightweight and lesser quality bikes. The CC has 4130 chromoly steel frame and the main triangle is in fact double butted. If you want a lightweight CC, build it with high end components, carbon fork, Mavic Open Pro wheels (or better) and I am pretty sure you could get down under 22 pounds. However, my bike, I have no idea, it's current weight.

I have the stock build except:
Brooks B17N saddle
Mavic Open pro wheels on Deore hubs with butted Wheelsmith spokes
Michelin Pilot Sport folding bead tires 32mm/Airstop tubes
Tubus rack
Chunky Forte double side platform SPD pedals
Planet Bike fenders
Bike bell
Serfa 500 light
Planet Bike rear blinkies
Seat pack with spares and tools
Zipp top bar bag for my phone etc.
Cateye speed computer
Two aluminum water cages

I treated the steel tubing with rust proof spray and key areas that see wear/abrasion have 3M protective tape. The new wheels and tires made a HUGE difference and are so much better and lighter than the original Alex wheels and Ritchey cross tires.

LC

the sci guy 

yeah i won't be building mine. Just buying a stock version and adding a rack. hopefully it's lighter than my mid 90's giant MTB which is also 4130 chromoly. it says 19.5" on the seat tube, but i don't know what that coverts to in road bike size. i got this bike off craigslist.

WMBIGS

I hope to build up a CC as SS this fall. I have a double road crank, FSA with the outboard bearings. Will the Surly new ultra hub 130 width line up with either of the chain rings? Thinking of having wheels built with Velocity A23's and the new ultra hubs.
What are the advantages/disadvantages with canti's vs linear pull. Will have a rear rack and fenders if that matters.
Thanks all!

thenomad

I got this frame for such a great deal locally I took it for granted. I built it up a few ways and really liked it. It became my go-to bike even for long weekend rides, despite it being SS.
When I decided to build a mountain bike full tilt then I put it up for sale since I could actually make some good money off of it based on my purchase price.

Well...

Now I regret selling it. I'm looking to again go rack and pannier and fender route for commuting. My lightweight cross bike has toe overlap and while its light and geared I like being able to SS/fix for the commute. Darn. Now I'm torn on getting another cross-check now that I truly appreciate the 'value' in the frame. I also feel like staying SS/fix for most of my riding now.

Guess I should have sold the 'cross bike and stuck with the Surly.

garysol1 

My newly rebuilt Cross Check.
Ultegra 6700 compact group
Ksyrium ES Wheelset
Terry Fly saddle
Specialized carbon seatpost
Cockpit is still yet to be decided.

Andy_K 

OK, I've got to ask...why the Ksyrium ES wheelset on that bike? Or maybe I should be asking, why the Cross Check frame, rack, fenders and fat tires?

It's a great looking bike (and very well done photo). There are just some things there that don't seem to go together.

garysol1 

As for the wheels its the only set i have that are not being used on another bike besides my HED Jet 6's which would be even more out of place. I have a set of 105 hubs that I need to build into a more touring worthy wheel set. As it is it makes for a pretty light and fast flat land touring machine. I do most of my loaded touring around Florida so need for super steep gearing.
B.T.W. iPhone 5 picture....

Andy_K 

Nice problem to have.

edsall78

What makes you say that the BD bike (CXX) is not at all like the crosscheck? There are def. some minor differences..the fork..the top tube cable routing..fewer braze-ons??..but I'm fairly certain the geometry and tubing are the same; across all sizes. Additionally, those "shortcomings" listed above are more than offset by the component upgrades..+ price.

I don't own the CXX--but on paper the CXX and thr surly cross-x look very similar.

Loose Chain

Uh, the fork, the sloping top tube, the fit all rear spacing, the lack of horizontal drop outs, braze ons and the geometry is not the same, does not look the same anyways. Does it fit fat tires? Cables on the bottom of the top tube. The sloping top tube, that is a big deal with me, I hate compact frames and I hate shouldering them even more and even more with the cables routed on the bottom of the top tube. If you want a Cross Check get a Cross Check. Your results may vary.

There are bikes I would like better, I would like a Gunnar except it does not have horizontal drop outs, fit all drop out spacing and I do not think it can fit as large a tire and it appears to have a sloping top tube, the Soma Double Cross, I like it but no horizontal drop outs, sloping top tube, blah, blah. I wish there was a titanium Cross Check or a stainless Cross Check. Hey Surly, please make one (Cross Check Titanium) and please, please do not put stupid disc brakes on the Cross Check, please!

If I got a custom builder to build me a Cross Check of stainless steel top end tubing, corrected some of the oddities that the CC has without altering the basic goodness, the frame would cost, what, $2,500, and weight what, maybe a pound less? I could probably get that pound with component upgrades, my new Mavic wheels put a dent in it right there.

It is chasing the Jabberwocky, the CC is full of goodness as is.

LC

edsall78

Loose-

All of your questions regarding the BD moto CXX (surly clone) have been asked and answered on the forums before.

The bike shares the same geometry as the current surly cross-x. The semi horizontal dropouts are the same. And the fork is the same one that came with the cross-x 2 years ago.
As for tire fit-- based on actual owners' posts--it seems like the frame can handle tires comparable to the surly frame.
There are previous posts on the similarities and differences.
Hers a link to the CXX gallery:https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/images/cxx_gallery/

Aside from the color and no option for front rack..id say they are the same frame.
Nevertheless, I was just curious if you had seen something that no one else has..

Surly has a great reputation and I'd choose one of their bikes in a heartbeat.

Yalc

What do we think of the straggler? I am looking in to getting a frame and just swapping my parts over to it, and get some disk brakes and compatible wheels. And using my current crosscheck as a racked fixed gear.

Loose Chain

Yes, a sloping top tube, the dropouts shown are not like the CC and the cable routing is under the frame. It is not a clone. Okay, so maybe it has similar geometry, maybe, it is not a clone. A clone is by definition identical and I think that Bikes Direct bike if it a "clone" got some of it's double helix out of whack because it is not identical to the Cross Check no matter how many times you say otherwise.

LC