Toonie

I was riding on a city street on my way to climb some steep hills. I don't know what grade, but the steeper sections can range from 25 to 35 degrees. I saw someone come down from the sidewalk. He was walking straight on the center of the lane with a shopping cart. I had no idea what he was going to do, so I wanted to sneak by his right thinking he was going to turn left. All of a sudden, before I was able to shoot through that gap, he decided to go back on the sidewalk, knocking me down to the sidewalk. My left knuckle rubbed against the shopping cart's cage and is now bleeding.

I yelled "What the hell?" He looks back at my bike and responds, "You what the hell! You watch me!" I wouldn't say he is homeless or mentally ill, just some rude a-hole.

I have 2 types of questions, one legal and the other is preparation for similar scenarios in the future. Is walking on the street illegal? I'm pretty sure it is. Is it illegal to cross anywhere other than at a crosswalk? I wish the law would punish crimes like this severely so these nutjobs would not commit them.

I regret that I was not quick enough to pull out my cellphone to take a picture of his face. I would have loved to post it on the Internet and show to the police so they can arrest him. I guess the best decision to make next time is to stop completely. You never know which way they are going to go. I'm a little upset, but I'm not steaming enough to want to smash something I have. Thank goodness that I didn't beat him up out of frustration, or I would be in trouble.

What would you do if you saw someone doing this? How would you handle it if they caused you to fall and bleed? I called the police but they said there is nothing they can do, unless they can identify who he is. Thanks for all your input. By the way, my face still looks like this , not .

Shimagnolo

RunningPirate

Oiysh...this is sort of lose/lose...

As a runner, I make it my responsibility to look behind me before I make a directional change or U-turn...to avoid situations like this. However, as a snowboarder, I know that the person in front of me technically has the right of way, and that it's my responsibility to maneuver around him/her as (s)he can't see me and is not going to look.

Your situation is strange in that there was a person tooling down the middle of the street with a shopping cart...this sort of screws all logical response as, yes, he was in front of you and thus has the right of way, but then again, he shouldn't have been in the middle of the street in the first place.

In the future, yell out "On your left" (or on your right) to give the guy a heads up, and be prepared to grab the binders, if needed.

zonatandem

A 45 to 55 degree grade?! Ya lost me right there!

clasher

You're gonna call the cops 'cos you couldn't avoid some crazy dude who was pushing a shopping cart down the road? Did slowing down and/or stopping for a second not cross your mind, especially if you're on a 45 degree incline, I can't see how this scenario is even remotely plausible unless one or both of you is on drugs.

If you just ran into me with your bike and are thinking of whipping out your phone to take my picture to show to cops, you had better be ready to make a quick getaway... if I were in the cartpusher's shoes I'd be interesting smashing your phone and likely something else for running into me.

badrad

sorry for your incident but a question on the steepness of the city street you were biking up?
did you mean 45% or 45 degree?

the steepest streets in the US:
1.Waipio Valley Road, Hawaii with 45% gradient (4 wheel drive only)
2.Canton avenue, Pittsburg, Pennsylvania with 37% gradient
3.Eldre street, Los Angeles, California with a 33.3% gradient

twobadfish

55* angle? You should have slid to the bottom of the hill after you took the fall - unless you were still attached to the rope you used to get up the hill. And was the guy cutting switchbacks with his cart?

Toonie

Oh, my bad for not clarifying about the steepness and all. I was not on a climb at that moment. I was on my way to a climb. And since I am more familiar with trigonometry and vectors now, I meant degrees in terms of trig, not the climb's gradient.

Toonie

So let me ask you a question then mate. Anyone has the right to walk on the streets at anytime? And, for anything that happens because of this kind of offense by the pedestrian, it is never his/her fault?

To add a little more information, yes, I did slow down. First I stopped pedaling. Second, I braked slightly as I got closer to him. Third, I pulled way right to the gutters. He suddenly pulled to the right as I was passing. This was how it happened. This happened on flat ground. I didn't run into his body, he turned his shopping cart into my front wheel.

As for the inclines, there are these steep climbs where I go that last for about 1-3 blocks length, depending on which one I choose.

To clasher, I especially thank you for being hostile, threatening to be violent, and unreasonable.

Toonie

I can understand where you are going with this, but this situation involves a public street. It would not make much sense if the person in front can do whatever he/she desires and has no responsibility to look behind, such as brake suddenly or cut right/left. If this was the case, a driver who changes lanes without looking, causing an accident as a result, would not be at fault for plowing into the car next to him/her. People will use this argument everywhere and there would so much carnage all over the world if the driver at the front is allowed to abuse all privileges and laws of driving in this manner.

prathmann

Fine, but the problem is that there are no streets that are sloped at 45 - 55 degrees. And when such a slope is encountered while hiking it's usual to start using one's hands as well as feet to maintain balance.

And while the pedestrian may have violated some traffic rule (hard to know since you never specified the jurisdiction), it's common sense that when you see someone up ahead who is already acting contrary to normal traffic principles then you should exercise due care and expect that they will continue to act unpredictably.

Toonie

Okay, I'll withdraw the 45-55 degree claim. I'll also edit so future readers don't get puzzled.

Cyclaholic

x = 40 deg.

gear

In the street, always pass on the left. If you have to go into the oncoming lane to do this, make sure that lane is clear first.

rogerstg

So he was coming toward you crossing the street?

Now he's walking parallel to the sidewalk? Still walking toward you or away? From the remaining context, I'll assume he was walking away from you, traveling along the roadway

Despite your inconsistent details, it sounds like it was totally your fault. You committed to a course of action without knowledge; and contrary to safe operation on roads. You should normally pass any traffic on the left. You should also signal your intention, or at least your existence, instead of doing the opposite - sneaking by.

No, but it is usually illegal to pass on the right, and for a vehicle to hit a pedestrian

Be careful for what you wish; it could get expensive for you.

The reality is that I too will often sneak around traffic and pedestrians making snap judgments along the way. However, I know that any mishap is on me and don't blame other people when I screw up.

AdamDZ

Yes, he was doing everything illegal. Most peds have this notion that they can walk wherever they want and that they always have the right of way. There wasn't enough damage for the cops to do anything. Nobody gets arrested for jaywalking and getting someone's knuckles scratched.

Many pedestrians will walk away from bike accidents, if they're not hurt themselves, just because they can. Unless you or someone else apprehends them and holds them for the cops, they will walk away. That's it. And the chances that someone will be willing to sacrifice their precious time and offer to be a witness to a bicycle accident are very slim too.

Ride defensively, don't assume everyone will follow the rules and get out of your way.

So there is nothing here you can do here. Avoid accidents so you don't have to deal with them later.

If I see people in my way, I slow down and watch out, use my airhorn. I'd rather get out of someone's way, even if it's them who's breaking the law, if it's reasonably easy and safe to do so. That's better than getting hurt and wasting your time later on legal proceedings. It's not worth it unless you have a chance of big payoff (money for you, severe punishment for the other party) but that means severe bodily injuries for you. In your situation, even if a cop was right there, most likely he wouldn't do anything because there wasn't enough body harm. A suit in a civil court would be your only way to go and the time and money wouldn't be worth it. Last time I checked ticket for jaywalking in NYC was something ridiculous, like $10 or something and completely un-enforceable.

As I posted in another thread:

"I don't believe in self-righteous exercising of my rights at any cost without regards for my own safety and convenience of other people."

and

"Like most things in life riding a bike in traffic is about balance and compromise. You need use your judgment when to exercise you rights and when to get out of the way."

Adam

tarwheel 

Dude, he may have been in the wrong, but you are not blameless. You have to ride defensively, always. Pedestrians are presumed to have the right-of-way even if they're wrong. They are more vulnerable. Just like you would be if a faster car came up behind you. Get a bell or horn, or yell if a pedestrian is in the way. The goal is to avoid collisions -- always.

fotooutdoors

In most jurisdictions, pedestrians have right-of-way in the crosswalk, but vehicles (including bikes) have right-of-way outside of crosswalks (though often pedestrians are permitted to cross the roadway if they do not encroach on a vehicle's right-of-way). Regardless of the law, ride smart, and assume that people are occasionally going to do stupid things, I know I do.

thdave

Yeah, I don't think this is anything to tell the police. You can't win this argument, as you didn't slow down enough, you didn't ring a bell or otherwise notify him as to your passing. His offense is jaywalking. He'd never be found guilty of causing the accident.

audi666

if you havnt learned that pedestrians (with or without shopping carts) will make unpredictable moves already, then you do now. it could have been much worse.

Gus Riley

A different situation indeed, however.... "On your left" or suffer both the accident and the blame.

ryanwood

I realize each situation is different, but I have found that most pedestrians respond to verbal commands. When someone steps off the curb in front of me when they "didn't see me coming" screaming "GET OUT OF THE ROAD" at the top of my lungs gets a pretty quick response.

CliftonGK1

Might be different where you're at, but around here (regardless of crosswalks, etc.) the general rule for right of way is autos yield to bikes, bikes yield to peds. This may not be the everyday application which is seen, as cars are cutting off cyclists and cyclists are darting through crowds of people at a crosswalk; but if something were to happen and a case went to court, the rule gets applied.

AdamDZ

Yup, the above rule gets applied and the court will try to determine if you had enough time to stop and avoid the collision. That's because, like it was said above, regardless of who has the right of way everyone has the responsibility to do whatever they can to avoid the collision first, in this order: cars->bikes->peds.

If it's determined that you had enough time to react and prevent the accident, even if you had the right of way, the other party may not be found responsible for causing the accident and will be only ticketed for traffic violation and you may be even found guilty of reckless behavior and endangerment. Riding into an avoidable accident on purpose just to exercise your right-of-way will be most likely considered reckless behavior in the court.

If it's determined that the pedestrian stepped in front of you illegally AND suddenly so you had NO CHANCE to react the pedestrian will be found guilty of causing the accident. So it's a big unknown who will win and it's best to do whatever you can to avoid accidents in the first place even if that means getting out of the way of someone else who is breaking the law. The time spent in court is not fun time and, in the court, the one who has a better lawyer wins.

Ans yes, you need a bell or a horn. If you have none, or didn't use one, it will be a lost case most likely anyway.

Santaria

I think he's outside the U.S. for logistic purposes. So there is some viability in him having some significant inclines available for hill training.

To the OP, it seems like you made one critical error in your thinking. Do not assume anybody will ever do what is predictable. Call out on your left, and give yourself even more breathing room by taking a track much further to his left to account for both uncertainty and the potential for him to instinctively swing to the left.

I've done this for years, and its never failed me. And the people I pass have never failed to impress me with their ability to veer left when I yell it too, so I guess technically they are acting predictable. Hmmm...