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  1. #1
    Senior Member 009jim's Avatar
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    Bus driver exonerated after punches cyclist!

    Is anyone aware of it becoming legal to assault someone if they torment you? This incident "below" happened in my city. Does this mean if a car driver hurls abuse at a cyclist in our city, the cyclist is legally able to punch them in the face? OR do we possibly have a double standard?

    A bus driver who punched a cyclist in the face after he called him fat and stupid in a peak hour road rage incident has been acquitted in a Brisbane court.

    Leon James Zahnow, 36, admitted punching 57-year-old Gregory Ralph Jardine, snapping his glasses in two and leaving him bleeding, in the inner-city suburb Paddington on December 10, 2009, the Brisbane Times reports.

    But Mr Zahnow pleaded not guilty to one charge of assault occasioning bodily harm on the grounds he was provoked.

    He told the Brisbane District Court yesterday that he only hit the cyclist after he was called "fat and stupid".

  2. #2
    Tawp Dawg GriddleCakes's Avatar
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    It should never be OK to solve your problems with violence.

    Also, don't be surprised if, after you call someone "fat and stupid", they punch you.

  3. #3
    Senior Member whitey818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriddleCakes View Post
    It should never be OK to solve your problems with violence.

    Also, don't be surprised if, after you call someone "fat and stupid", they punch you.
    I agree, neither was in the right. If you are going to verbally assault someone don't expect them to be the one to turn the other cheek, not everyone is good at the name calling.

  4. #4
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    Call someone fat and stupid and all bets are off. Physicsl assault is not much worse than that type of immature verbal assault.

  5. #5
    Senior Member mgw189's Avatar
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    I would like to hear the whole story. While it may not be a good idea to call someone fat and or stupid it is not a good reason to punch someone.

  6. #6
    Living the Dream stdlrf11's Avatar
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    He deserved to be punched.

    If you're going to sink to that level, you have it coming.

    If you knew that every time you started running your mouth and acting like an idiot then you'd get thumped, the world would be a much nicer place.

    Kind of like the phrase, "an armed society is a polite society."

  7. #7
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    People please! Words are just words! Words can be stated out of frustration, anger, ignorance, etc...

    Words can be smoothed over and apologized for, ever having been stated.

    Just think of your siblings, spouses, and parents. Think of all the ungodly things they've ever said to you...

    Did you then just haul off and punch them for it?

    When dealing with the public, you never know who or what you may encounter. Some people are stricken by senility, some by immaturity, some by mental-illness, and some people, just left a scene where they were already irritated. They were primed for the oncoming event.

    In a civilized society, we don't just punch someone because of words...

    - Slim

  8. #8
    Senior Member Milice's Avatar
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    From the small snippet of the story you posted we are not getting the full set of details. Just because he pleaded not guilty does not mean the courts are going to find him to be.
    If it looks like the $3000 bikes but costs less than a decent helmet, it probably isn't a wise investment.


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  9. #9
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    People please! Words are just words! Words can be stated out of frustration, anger, ignorance, etc...

    Words can be smoothed over and apologized for, ever having been stated.

    Just think of your siblings, spouses, and parents. Think of all the ungodly things they've ever said to you...

    Did you then just haul off and punch them for it?

    When dealing with the public, you never know who or what you may encounter. Some people are stricken by senility, some by immaturity, some by mental-illness, and some people, just left a scene where they were already irritated. They were primed for the oncoming event.

    In a civilized society, we don't just punch someone because of words...

    - Slim
    +1

    What's next?

    "Judge, I'm sorry about my pulling out the 44 mag and shooting him, since he did make some derogatory remarks toward me".

  10. #10
    Dog is my co-pilot 2manybikes's Avatar
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    No it's not legal to hit someone, just because they said something. All we know is that he pleaded not guilty. The trial or plea bargaining had not happened yet, at the time of the printing of that story. We have no idea what will happen in court later.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milice View Post
    Just because he pleaded not guilty does not mean the courts are going to find him to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2manybikes View Post
    All we know is that he pleaded not guilty. The trial or plea bargaining had not happened yet, at the time of the printing of that story. We have no idea what will happen in court later.
    From the original post:
    A bus driver who punched a cyclist in the face after he called him fat and stupid in a peak hour road rage incident has been acquitted in a Brisbane court.

  12. #12
    I am a caffine girl colleen c's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgw189 View Post
    I would like to hear the whole story. While it may not be a good idea to call someone fat and or stupid it is not a good reason to punch someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milice View Post
    From the small snippet of the story you posted we are not getting the full set of details. Just because he pleaded not guilty does not mean the courts are going to find him to be.
    Here is a full story of the incident:

    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...026-1mjaw.html

    From what the article stated, it sound like things got escalated after the cyclist interfered with the mirror and window of the bus making the driver stop, but the cyclist did pull a pen out of the bus driver shirt pocket in an attempt to get the bus registration number and prompting the driver to push him to the ground. Then the cyclist pull the pen again out of the pocket a second time with the process of calling him "fat and stupid" somwhere along the argument.

    IMO, would have been best if the cyclist just get the bus registration number after stopping the bus and not having to pull the pen out of the driver pocket.
    "Difference between a well dressed cyclist riding a two wheeled bicycle and a badly dressed cyclist riding a Recumbent is only a-tire"
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    Some people got their head so far up their butt such that the only thing they hear is muffle when trying to explain anything to them! I only wish they take it out sometimes to smell the roses.

  13. #13
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Twice the bus driver caused the cyclist bodily harm whereas twice the cyclist did not.

    I wonder how many jurists in that trial commuted by automobile versus bicycle.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Slaninar's Avatar
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    I think verbal abuse, insults, verbal assaults etc. are not something a man should put up with. If a man is not good with words, a reply with a good old punch in the face is 100% OK by me.
    Evviva il comunismo e la libertÓ.

  15. #15
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
    I think verbal abuse, insults, verbal assaults etc. are not something a man should put up with. If a man is not good with words, a reply with a good old punch in the face is 100% OK by me.
    To think that this man is driving professionally behind the wheel of a several ton vehicle with passengers, the standards for his behavior needs to be somewhat higher than what he exhibited.

  16. #16
    I am a caffine girl colleen c's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Twice the bus driver caused the cyclist bodily harm whereas twice the cyclist did not.

    I wonder how many jurists in that trial commuted by automobile versus bicycle.
    I bet most of those jurists commuted by bus to get to the courthouse that day.
    "Difference between a well dressed cyclist riding a two wheeled bicycle and a badly dressed cyclist riding a Recumbent is only a-tire"
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    Some people got their head so far up their butt such that the only thing they hear is muffle when trying to explain anything to them! I only wish they take it out sometimes to smell the roses.

  17. #17
    Gears? CliftonGK1's Avatar
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    I'm not beneath thumping the side of a bus with my fist to get the attention of an idiot driver who nearly hits me. If they're close enough for me to thump the bus, then they're inside of the 3' passing zone; not an OK situation, especially with a bus.
    I will not screw with their mirrors or windshield wipers because that's compromising the safety of the passengers and everyone else on the road if the driver can't see properly. I also wouldn't go and pluck things out of the driver's shirt pocket if I did get into an altercation with the driver.
    The bus driver might have been in the wrong in the first place by almost hitting the rider (we don't know the specifics of that situation) but it seems to me like the cyclist deserved what he got: He picked a fight and he lost. Sorry, dude... Sack up and deal with the consequences. Go buy some band-aids and a new pair of glasses. Take some boxing lessons while you're at it.
    "I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
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  18. #18
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
    ......He picked a fight and he lost. Sorry, dude... Sack up and deal with the consequences. Go buy some band-aids and a new pair of glasses. Take some boxing lessons while you're at it.
    No battery toward the bus driver on the cyclist's part, but OK for the driver to do it twice on the cyclist.

    Have you raised any teenage children?

  19. #19
    Senior Member mymojo's Avatar
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    If you are gonna lip off, might be best to have enough ass in your britches to back it up.

    1, Cyclist messed with bus. Provocation
    2. took pen from driver without consent. provocation
    3. Verbally insulted driver. Provocation.

    Also, the moment the cyclist touched the driver (taking the pen from him pocket) without the drivers consent, it became assault on the part of the cyclist.

    I would say the cyclist is lucky HE wasn't the one who got charged.
    Last edited by mymojo; 10-30-11 at 12:30 PM.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymojo View Post
    If you are gonna lip off, might be best to have enough ass in your britches to back it up.
    Yeah, resorting to battery solves everything, take a pen from someone's pocket, throw it to the ground and they get to shove you to the ground, and then punch you in the face.

  21. #21
    Senior Member mymojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Yeah, resorting to battery solves everything, take a pen from someone's pocket, throw it to the ground and they get to shove you to the ground, and then punch you in the face.
    Yes, actually they do. Its called self defense. He provoked the driver at least four times according to the story. Obviously he wasnt going to let it go. I'm lucky enough to live in a place that says I don't have to tuck tail when someone does that to me. I am allowed to stand my ground and defend myself.

    The moment anyone tries to take anything out of my pocket, be it a pen or my wallet, I am legally allowed to defend myself and my property. BTW, taking the pen without permission is called theft - while "petty" to be sure, I still think its a chargeable offense.

    The bus driver could have claimed self defense the first time the cyclist touched him (or his property) it took two more provocations before he acted. He actually showed more restraint than legally required.

    So, the point is, if you're gonna disrespect another man buy trying to take his property and call him names, don't whine if he shows you the error of that decision.
    "It's the 41. If you don't have cool stuff, you suck. If you have cool stuff, you still suck" - Velo Gator

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  22. #22
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymojo View Post


    ....So, the point is, if you're gonna disrespect another man buy trying to take his property and call him names, don't whine if he shows you the error of that decision.
    When one is being paid to drive professionally, especially with passengers, one needs to keep their behavior in check far better than this bus driver. Chances are that this particular bus driver's driving habits also reflected his personal behavior, possibly causing the incident with the cyclist in the first place.

    I curious to see what takes place if the cyclist pursues this incident in civil court.

  23. #23
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    I would have "defended" myself against the bike rider physically assaulting my person (snatching at my pocket) independent of whether he was calling me fat and stupid at the time. The bus driver should have won. The verbal stuff is a red herring.

    There are plenty of examples of bike folk getting raw deals. This isn't one. We dilute our integrity by being pre-disposed to picking one side based on wheel count. Need to look at the whole story.

  24. #24
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcbob View Post

    There are plenty of examples of bike folk getting raw deals. This isn't one. We dilute our integrity by being pre-disposed to picking one side based on wheel count. Need to look at the whole story.
    Sure, my wife or children decide to verbally abuse me, and take something out of my pocket, that gives me the right to make them sport a black eye.

    It's not just about wheel count.

  25. #25
    Senior Member mymojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    When one is being paid to drive professionally, especially with passengers, one needs to keep their behavior in check far better than this bus driver.
    Probably. He could well lose his job for this. But whether or not he violated his company's code of conduct is not a matter for the courts. And who knows, he may still be found liable in civil court.

    Chances are that this particular bus driver's driving habits also reflected his personal behavior, possibly causing the incident with the cyclist in the first place.
    You may be right. Most peoples don't go off like that for no reason. But...... that's guess work. That's not allowed in court and I'm not basing my opinion on guesswork. I'm basing it on the information provided above. From that information we have: the cyclist provoked him four times prior to the driver taking action. The cyclist is the aggressor and the driver is the victim.
    "It's the 41. If you don't have cool stuff, you suck. If you have cool stuff, you still suck" - Velo Gator

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