SurlyLaika

After having my frame on the craigslist market for a little over 2 months and receiving no reasonable offers, I have decided that it'd be best to simply keep the slightly oversized 56cm frame and build it up as a rack-ed, fender-ed upright beater. I'm going to put some Albatross bars on it and keep most of the stock parts on it.

I'm also going to buy a 54cm frame, same model, out of pocket and take some of the nicer components off the 56cm to build up a faster, tougher, stripped down commuter, now that I've learned what I like in a bicycle.

One thing I've heard a lot about are hand built custom wheels. I'm thinking about getting a set from Peter White, but $300 to $500 seems like a lot to spend on wheels. Does anyone here ride on custom wheels? If so, what rims, hubs, and spokes? Disc or rim brakes? Are they really worth springing for? How do they improve the ride quality?

dedhed

While I don't have a custom wheel set, I did spend $300 on them and if they serve me well for years I consider it money well spent after watching guys throw $20-30 a shot on getting broken spokes replaced a couple times a year on $100 wheels. Mavic open pros on 36h Ultegra 6700 hubs with DT DB spokes rim brakes. I don't know about ride as it was a complete bike build and didn't ride it much before hand.

SurlyLaika

After, damaging my rim brake surface last year, I had the LBS rebuild my wheel with the same Deore hub, some Alex rims, and DT spokes. I figured it was good to have it hand built but I wish I hadn't cheaped out on the $18 rims because they make this terrible noise when I brake no matter how I adjust the brakes. The rear rim is a different Alex and it's pretty quiet. Who knows why the front gives me so much trouble. This time I want to make sure I get some quality wheels. I've heard that more finely machined side walls make for smoother braking...

BTW, I don't know why but I'm partial to Shimano's mountain line. I'm going almost all Deore XT with my next build. I guess it's because I had to get a Deore XT RD to accomodate the 32t cassette I used on tour which was an upgrade from the Tiagra RD. Even after I went back to a 25t, I kept the XT. Seems tough.

dynodonn 

I don't have a custom wheel set either, but I also did an upgrade to a 300 dollar set as well, with the same results in have lower maintenance requirements. My initial selling point was the smoothness of the hub bearing sets compared to the cheaper wheel sets that I was previously purchasing,and after carrying many heavy cargo loads with no breakage, the spokes are now as well.

nubcake

I would say a lot of it depends on your expectations/desires from your wheelset.

I am somewhat picky as far as components but I am also that guy that will drop way to much money (at least given my income) on a bicycle or component but I will also ride the same stuff for much longer than most, I do not really get upgrade fever, more so just ad variety to the stable fever.

My mountain bike has Chris King hubs I laced to Stan's Arch rims, I splurged here because I do a lot of big into the middle of nowhere rides and I do not want to have to worry about things like freehub failures when I am 20 miles out. I have killed probably 3-4 shimano freehubs in the past.

My Xtracycle/commuter/kid hauler has some Sram X7 hubs laced to Mavic 531 rims that I found on Ebay cheap. If my financial situation allowed it there would probably be Kings there too but worst case scenario if I have a freehub failure there I can always call for a ride and if I end up having to replace the cheaper cartridge bearings every couple seasons its not the end of the world.

Both have their advantages but I like knowing my wheels could last 10+ years if I take care of them.

Are you traditionally hard on wheels? Do you plan to tour on the bike at all?

As far as braking, I really like discs, they are not hard to set up, just different. Avid bb7's have got to be the easiest brakes on the planet to set up. The biggest thing I like about discs is when your rim starts getting worn I do not like having that slight doubt in the back of my head of how worn is too worn. I have worn through a sidewall on my old Xtracycle wheels but luckily even though it was cracked through it had not blown out completely, I just noticed my brakes pulsing very badly so I checked it when I got home and was glad the new wheels showed up the day before because I knew it was getting thin.

Andy_K 

The big things with custom wheels are picking exactly the components you want and knowing that the wheels will last a really long time. The thing to do is talk to the wheelbuilder about components. Even if you're having wheels shipped from across the country, chat with the wheelbuilder.

I haven't gotten custom wheels, but I have built a couple of sets for myself. The guys at Universal Cycles talked to me about my component choices, and in one case talked me into straight gauge spokes because of my particular application (though usually double butted are preferred).

I used SRAM X.9 hubs and Salsa Deldago Cross rims for the disc wheels I built. The X.9 hubs are awesome and a great value. The Delgado rims are OK but were mostly a budget based choice. I used alloy nipples on that set, but now wish I hadn't. They corrode.

The other wheels I built were 26 inch road-ish wheels for my '89 Rockhopper. For this one I used Tiagra hubs and Mavic XM317 rims. The Tiagra hubs are very good for the cost. I've got another set of wheels with Ultegra hubs, and I think the Tiagras are very nearly as good for about one third the cost. The XM317's were a bargain deal from Crosslake Sales, but I've been very happy with them. This is the set I got the straight gauge spokes for, and this time I went with brass nipple.

SurlyLaika

I've noticed that maybe 1 in 4 comments on custom wheel sets on other forums mention the sturdiness, the trueness, of custom wheels for Clydesdales. Well, I'm not a Clydesdale so maybe custom wheels have less value for me, but yea I have toured and plan on doing some more. Through my summer tour and lately commuting more intensely and in more varied terrains, I've learned my bicycle pretty intimately. I know now what I like about it and what I don't.

SurlyLaika

Peter White has an article about the inferiority of DT spokes recently. I don't understand it completely but it's enough to convince me that Wheelsmith spokes are better.

tsl

I can't think of any reason to buy stock, pre-made wheels.

Every wheel build is a compromise, but stock wheels all seem to compromise in different places than I do. I have custom wheels on each of my four bikes, and every build is different, optimized specifically for how I ride that particular bike.

bobdell

I have built wheels, bought custom wheels and bought cheap machine made wheels. All worked fine for me, but then I'm not especially hard on wheels and spread my riding out over several bikes. Pre-built wheels should always be rechecked, so if you can't do this yourself, add this to the cost of the wheels.

Barrettscv 

I've found that many 32 spoke wheelsets from mail-order & handbuilt suppliers can be a good value.

Handspun is an example. If you combine 32 spokes, Shimano hubs and Velocity rims the wheel will be reliable and have a long service life.

I have these: https://handspunwheels.com/products/view_product/1802/ & https://handspunwheels.com/products/view_product/1801/

If I was selecting a lower spoke count with lighter rims, I would want to select the builder with more concern.

tarwheel 

As others said, the main advantage of custom wheels is being able to pick components to match your needs. Many of the factory wheels being pushed by bike shops and on-line stores are aimed at lightness and performance at the expense of durability. You are basically paying a lot of money for wheels that are light weight but not necessarily durable. By going custom, you can build a wheel that is reasonably light but much more durable.

That said, a custom wheel is only as good as the builder. I had some custom wheels built by my LBS, not realizing that he wasn't too skilled in that area, and had nothing but trouble -- even using very good components. I ended up having the wheels respoked and tensioned by another local shop with a highly regarded wheel-builder and the same wheels have been trouble free ever since.

I have also had very good results, in general, from factory built 32H Ultegra-Open Pro wheels that you can often buy for very good prices. I have bought about 4 sets of Ultegra-Open Pro wheels over the years from on-line dealers at prices ranging from $150-250 a set. Ironically, the only problem I ever had with a factory wheel was a 36H Ultegra-Open that I bought from Handspun via an on-line shop. The wheel had a very obvious dent in the rim when it arrived, which could have happened during the shipping. I sent it back and the replacement wheel was terribly out of true -- so bad that my LBS could not true it up. After that fiasco, I just got a refund. More recently, however, I bought another Handspun 36H Ultegra-OP wheel that has functioned perfectly.

tarwheel 

I would hardly call this a recent article. It was apparently first written in 2000 and last updated in 2007.

alan s 

Higher end stock wheelsets are every bit as good as custom wheelsets, and can usually be found at a lower price. I have Mavic Speedcity disc 700C wheels and Mavic Crosstrail disc 26" wheels for my commuter. Both came with little stickers indicating they were QCed (or posssiby built) by a real person, and they have held up exceptionally well. Still perfectly true after daily commuting and weekend trail riding for two years.

I looked into getting a custom wheelset, but it would have cost more and probably would not have been as good quality, or maybe the same quality, at best.

However, if I wanted a heavy duty touring wheelset, I would probably go custom.

tjspiel

+1

There a few youtube videos that show wheel building machines or robots. Some of them are pretty sophisticated. They do stress relieve the spokes, -which was something I was lead to believe isn't done with machine built wheels. In the few videos I saw it wasn't the machines doing the lacing though. People did that, but they were aided by a machine that turned the rim to the next spoke hole and then spun the nipple on after the builder inserted the spoke in the hole.

In one video they emphasized how the nipple on a machine built wheel is never touched by a spoke wrench so they are never stripped or scratched. Then in another video they show the end product rolling off the assembly line into a bin and clanging up against another wheel. So much for not getting scratched.

I really haven't gotten a bad wheel, either hand or machine built but it's not like I buy a ton of them. I custom built one because it was cheaper for me to do it than it was to get a pre-built wheel with an 8 speed Nexus Red band hub. They started at about $240. I got the hub for $90 so I could get a rim I liked with good quality spokes and nipples and still end up ahead.

cyccommute 

You are exactly right that the only reason to buy (or build) custom wheels is to get the components you want But you make the classic blunder in selecting components. Hubs? Check! Rims? Check! Spokes? Meh, whatever.

While the hubs and rims are important...the rims less so than the hubs...the spokes are at least as important as all the other components. The spokes do the hard work on a wheel. They take the side loads from cornering, they take the torque from braking, they take the torque from acceleration, they are what the weight of the bike hangs on to move the bike down the road, they keep the wheel straight for brakes, etc. The rims? They are just a convenient place to put the tires. The hubs? They just go around in circles.

My absolute favorite spokes are DT Alpine III. The heads of the spoke are beefier so that they resist fatigue and last longer. The heads also fit tighter in the hub so that the spoke can't move as much on each revolution which extends their life. Wheelsmith makes a spoke that is similar (only double butted instead of triple butted) which provides the same benefits. I build all of my rear wheels with the Alpines (and many of my fronts). They aren't cheap but if you buy cheap spokes, you get what you pay for.

Leebo

I have a hand built rear wheel for my commuter bike. It has a mavic A719 rim, with a shimano 105 hub, 36 hole. I'm north of 200lbs and ride on a mix of rough and lousy roads. 6,000 miles and only needed one minor tweek. YRMV, worth every penny.

HardyWeinberg

My understanding is that the big deal about custom wheels is build quality. I have had handbuilt wheels worse than machine-built, and machine-built that only require minimal truing, but I hear that you can get handbuilt wheels that both never need truing and that have a lifetime guarantee from the builder (which I guess you collect in terms of free truing for life, albeit perhaps not w/ free shipping to/from Peter White's, say, mountain lair).

I've never yet had a handbuilt-wheel that has made me loyal to the builder or rule out future consideration of machine-built. Actually I do have one outstanding handbuilt-wheel (w/ dyno hub) but it's still not a gamechanger for my wheel shopping.

tjspiel

That's kind of where I'm at. You see some wild claims including one custom wheel builder's website which says that almost all wheels hand built at a local bike shop or distribution center are improperly tensioned.

I guess you'd better have him build your wheels because he's one of the few with the knowledge and the work ethic it takes to do it right. That's what he and a lot of other custom wheel builders want you to believe anyway.

canyoneagle

I think the newer machines offer a better built wheel than in the 70's and 80's, and QC is probably better, too.
Quality of components is a huge factor, and as cycocommute mentioned, I think one of the key distinctions between "generic" machine made wheels and hand built wheels is the spoke selection. Generic wheels = no-name spokes (unless in the higher tier of pre-made wheelsets, which are in a different genre) = more likelihood for issues to arise.

I typically build my wheels using spoke washers, which essentially eliminates all play of the spoke head in the hole, which allegedly helps with spoke life and tension continuity for a number of reasons.

I also enjoy being able to hand pick my components. For example, my new gravel grinder/29er/monstercross/commuter will use the Nuvinci N360 IGH, which I will be pairing with the 35mm wide Salsa "Gordo" rim to maximize the footprint of my fat tires when I venture offroad. Even if I was able to locate a pre-built wheel using the N360, chances are the rim would be too narrow for my needs.

dedhed

The box the ones I bought came in said "handbuilt in the USA by Wheel Master" Don't know how true that is, (or cared) but I've put 3K on them without problem. I'm not a Clyde, but our pavement around here is pretty bad and They have need just 1 minor truing soon after settling in. I will take them in this winter to the LBS and have them tensioned and trued.

shabbis

On my winter commuter (cyclocross disc frame), I couldn't find a pre-built combination I was looking for with the odd requirements I had, so I ordered custom-built wheels. So far they have been flawless.

Rim: DT Swiss RR465
Hubs: ChrisKing ISO disc
Spokes: DT Swiss Super Comp Butted Spokes - 32 spoke
Brakes: Avid BB7 mechanical disc


My Cannondale Six13 came with full DuraAce 7800 wheels and they have been bulletproof for the past five years of riding on them.

Drew Eckhardt 

Mavic Open Pro, 1996 Campagnolo Chorus hubs with Record Titanium 9 speed freehub, DT 2.0/1.5 Revolution except DT 2.0/1.8 Competition rear drive side, DT alloy nipples.

Rim.

Yes.

They never break spokes (14-15 years so far, although with people putting 200,000-300,000 problem free miles on a set that's not saying much), never go out of true between when they're built and a rim gets bent in a crash, and when a rim wears out or gets bent it's about $60 to replace it keeping the same hub and spokes.

michaelnel

You won't find any better built wheels than the ones Peter White builds. Others can do as well, but nobody better.

pdlamb

I think the biggest reason is the price. Even if you have to pay someone to tension the wheels (I do it myself), you can still save money by having the borg's machine start the build for you.