kickstart

Oh my goodness, it hurts just looking.



Not me, but a reasonable representation.

Safe to assume we are polar opposites in our goals and desires.

baldilocks

Just Bought this last week. It's as close as I have to a biking jacket, but it is high visibility. I wasn't able to make it link to the yellow one so you will have to click on it.
Starter Men's Woven Track Jacket - Walmart.com

timtak

The high visibility Arsuxeo fleece that I bought was a bit thin but not bad for the money. I like it. But as the weather gets colder I am soon going to need something more windproof. The same company also does a (rather thin but quite effective, according to the only, Russian, review I can find) shell with a waterproof/windproof outer and fleece inner. And the cheapest I can find it on aliexpress is here and here (where the sellers' name is given as the same as the manufacturer).

Someone else is charging about three times that price on amazon UK.


The unfortunate brand name seems to mean　"good looking speedy Europe". The final "EO" character can also mean to vomit.

Speaking of high visibility shells on Amazon.co.uk, this product looks to be pretty good at about twice the price, but inexpensive.

noglider 

Here you go.

Andy_K 

I have to laugh at myself a bit. Earlier in this thread I was arguing for bright colored bike clothing, but since the mornings have turned cool (but not yet cold) I've been riding to work with the long sleeve jersey from my cyclocross team kit as an outer layer, and it is literally camouflage -- like this, but with the green extended down the sleeves:



Anecdotal evidence: so far I've gotten away with it. This has turned out to be an extremely useful piece of clothing for those days with in-between temperatures, but I think I might look for something similar that does less to contribute to my invisibility.

timtak

I have completed my high(ish) visibility rear bike box. It is a tool box

Harhir

The laws have changed in Germany in 2013. Now battery powered lights are legal too besides the dynamo powered lights.
But still: Accoring to the German Highway/road code every bicycle used on a public road has to have front and rear lights and also reflectors. Police will pull you over when they see you riding without any lights at night and there is a good chance you might get a ticket. Kids are already trained in elementary school with bicycle safety classes.
But I also agree there are way more protected bike trails and lanes in Germany than there are in the US.

Marc40a

I promised a review of some reflective gloves earlier in this thread so....


I ordered two versions:

Insulated:
MCR Luminator Reflective Gloves | Texas America Safety Company

And uninsulated:
MCR Luminator Reflective Gloves | Texas America Safety Company

The uninsulated black ones are like suede on both the inside and outside. They bleed a bit of black dye on your hands. After a few sweat soakings it's become minimal. I actually just ordered a second pair (lost one) and I'll probably just soak them before I wear them to accelerate the process. They're very reflective. You guys know, 3M is the real deal. I feel very confident throwing out a hand signal wearing them. They're a bit oversized but that lends itself pretty well to hand circulation or wearing a stretchy acrylic insulator glove under them on very cold days.

The white colored insulated gloves in the first link are okay. They're basically like any other thinsulate insulated glove. The good news is that the thinsulate insulation doesn't pull out of the glove when your hands are soaked with sweat. These days I prefer insulated gloves with a pile lining bonded to the interior or a separate liner altogether, but for visibility and cycling purposes these are good for the price. If I lost one of these, like I did the other kind, I don't know if I'd be so quick to replace it. The uninsulated versions are better for me because I likely won't be cycling below 32 degrees this winter and they'll take me up through the 50s and low 60s.

Also a big thumbs up to the vendor. They have very fast (2 days from TX to MA!) and reasonably priced shipping. Unlike most other vendors for this kind of item, they don't price gouge you on shipping for such a small item.

I also just discovered that they sell on amazon.

Marc40a

Addendum: the web page for the insulated gloves incorrectly describes them. It says they're unlined throughout the page then near the cart at the bottom it lists them as Thinsulate lined.

Bottom line:
The black gloves are unlined, the white gloves are thinsulate lined.
The black gloves are suede, the white are smooth on the outside.

My dream glove would be deerskin and smooth on the outside like the white gloves, but unlined like the black.

timtak

Those gloves look good, but I ama long way from Texas. I need stuff from China (I am in Japan).

My Arsuxeo shell has still not arrived (it took 4 weeks to ship!). I melted my conventional shower proof mesh-inner workers reflective jacket with three strips of 3M in Neon Green. Cycling jackets eg from wiggle do not seem to have enough reflective stuff - often limited to the logo. This is about the most relective on wiggle
Wiggle | Sportful Reflex 2 Jacket | Cycling Windproof Jackets
This Rockbros is cheap and popular but has only one small strip on the back
ROCKBROS TOUR DE FRANCE Breathable Bike Bicycle Cycling Cycle Waterproof Rain Coat Raincoat Wind Coat Windcoat Jersey Jacket-in Cycling Jerseys from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

I want to light up. I have spent more than an hour looking at rainproof reflective hig visibilty jackets on ebay and aliexpress.

I am liking the look of Pengbei (彭貝 lit active/exuberant shell) jackets in fully reflective (but rather drap in the day) or half reflective half green.

2015 casual hip hop brand winter plus size 4xl waterproof 3m reflective jacket men clothes outdoor baseball coats windbreaker-inJackets from Men's Clothing & Accessories on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

rumrunn6

get some coast guard approved reflective tape & go wild

timtak

Apparently the Peng Bei stuff above is not waterproof. Back to the drawing board.

AngeloDolce

To make a few comments on the original topic and related issues:

I rely on lights and reflectors at night. I wear a reflective vest at night, but it's more as an additional reflector and as a back up for tail lights. I'd say my view of importance is 95-98% to lights and large reflectors (SAE reflectors, not CPSC bike reflectors), 2-5% to vest, 0% to color of vest.

Technically, the vest is neon orange. However, a number of years ago, I saw a bicyclist stopped on the Baltimore-Annapolis trail one night. Actually, there were 2 bicyclists with high viz vests, but the high viz was invisible in the dark (I only saw the bicyclist with the reflective patches). I'm typically riding in moderate to congested traffic, so in the day I think lane choice and position show visibility and intended direction and don't worry about color. My problems aren't drivers that don't see me, but with the rare driver that thinks bicyclists are not allowed to ride on streets at all.

I think the real difference with Europe is that sober drivers are penalized for hitting bicyclists and pedestrians with the legal right of way (in Japan, hitting anyone). (Virtually every country requires lights; I don't believe any place requires fenders.) I think enforceable rights are much more important than any facilities, but it is likely that having enforceable ROW for bicyclists keeps the Netherlands from having some of the craziest US facilities (e.g. bike lane inside RTOL on to I-76 in Philadelphia but no separate signals, or the one below).

The few bike lanes I see locally are useless. The main bike lane is on the left side of a street where the road changes from one way to two way, so the bike lane is to the left of two left turn lanes and directs bicyclists straight into oncoming traffic. I think the designers expected bicyclists to just stop at the school at the intersection, and made no plans for anyone to cross a bridge 3 blocks up the street.

Newark Gets Its Very First Bike Lane - WNYC

The bike lane 2 blocks away is always blocked by parked cars, campus bus stops, and construction sites. High viz won't hurt, but I don't see it fixing anything either.

SloButWide 

@timtak -
When searching for reflective clothing, you might want to add "3M", "ANSI/ISEA", or "Class" to find the industrial grade stuff. (In the US, there is Class I, Class II, and Class III conspicuity clothing.)

I'm not sure what sporting brands will turn up on Ali Baba, but ZHU and Provis show up in Amazon searches.

bmthom.gis

Alright, I'm not one for wearing vests or dayglo colors except by happenstance. However, the Sugoi Zap jacket is pretty sweet looking. I like that it looks like a normal cycling jacket during the daylight. I liked it enough to check it out, and Sugoi is having a sale on the Matador Red color (guessing it was last years model?) for $75 and I got free shipping! They are also on Amazon for 85 w/ free prime shipping I guess for cyber monday.

timtak

@SloButWide Thanks 3M helps in China and, ISO20471 and EN741 appear to be the standards in Japan.

Sugoi does not seem to ship from its shop to Japan.
Zap Bike Jacket (on sale, MTD) ? SUGOI Performance Apparel
I'd buy one at that price.

I am still attracted to the highly reflective Peng Bei. Apparently they would be waterproof if they did not have holes in them.
Aliexpress.com : Buy S 4XL plus size nk brand Mens jacket night jogging biker 3m reflective jacket sports casual waterproof windbreaker jaqueta from Reliable quality calculator suppliers on PENG BEI. | Alibaba Group

Alternatively I could remove the 3M strips from the raincoat I melted and sew them to another or the same Arsuxeo shell, which still has not arrived but has gone down in price (still more on this "Black" Friday?)
ARSUXEO 2015 Thermal Cycling Jacket Winter Warm Up Bicycle Clothing Windproof Waterproof Soft shell Coat MTB Bike Jersey 15 K-in Cycling Jackets from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Or there is this on Amazon Japan for about $40(found thanks to the standards search term suggestion).

Bike Gremlin

My opinion on reflectors in general and why they work a bit different from what's expected:

Bicycle lights


Reflective ankle bands are perhaps more important than a vest - moving up and down, drawing attention when shone upon.

For open road, reflective vest draws attention from far, but for city riding, reflective clothing is a hit and miss IMO. Doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't expect too much from it. Good light (two up front perhaps, one at least on steady beam), good lane positioning, swerving if possible (before an intersection when a car waiting to pulli in), then the clothes - sorted by effectiveness IMO.

timtak

Good points. I am not sure I agree with the bit about blinking lights though I do use both when I want to see at all well, and I admit you may be right and there is lots about this, and more appropriate threads.

I am talking about clothing in addition to the lights.

Good point. I will get some ankle reflectors from the 100 yen store or maybe sew some onto my pants.

The above linked jacket from Amazon Japan is not waterproof. I am thinking to go with the Arsuxeo shells (at $25 each) which are waterproof, and adding some 3M type reflector, assuming they are any good, as soon as the first one on-order arrives.

dim

I bought one of these today (should arrive via post tomorow or thurs)

some very good reviews on the internet about them:

Polite Cycling Waistcoat

Outnumbered

Commuting on the same roads as Massachusetts drivers in the dark I have reflective everything with flashing tail lights, two and a very strong headlight, had the local police pull up to me at the lights one morning and mention he can always see me from far far away. During the day I wear bright solid colored shirts and my lights are on. My headlamp flashes which helps with the visibility and if its annoying to people well at least they see me. Motorcycles are much more visible with their flashing headlamps.

To me if I can make myself as visible as possible from far away as possible maybe the driver won't put their head down to text or dial their phone till they go by me. Nothing will stop a car from hitting me but I want to increase the odds of it not happening as much as I can.

rumrunn6

BINGO! of course they can see us when they are upon us, but if they see us way in advance they can plan their pass around us

timtak

And @Outnumbered
I agree too. The utility of high visibility may be limited, but it is better than not high visibility.

My Arsuxeo shell arrived.

It is not bad. Nay in fact very good for the money (about 30USD).

This is the feedback I left on aliexpress.

The yellow materials is very high-visibility, very dense, almost stiff, water repellent and water proof. It is not quite as thick as a jacket from a brand name supplier - lacking much in the way of fleece inner, but wind-proofing provided by the density means that with an under layer or two it is very warm, enough for 0 degree or lower with layers, weather. It is very well made. I am pretty thin (175cm 64kg). I am not as thin as Japanese cyclists. There is such variance in human bodies these days that it must be difficult for clothing manufacturers to create clothes to fit all body types. This Jacket was made with Westerners in mind since the M is just long enough in the arms but pretty long/ baggy around the chest arms and and torso. The black material is thin and porous. I may sew the yellow material together to remove this some of this black non-waterproof ventilation area except at the backs of the arms and arm pits, and make the jacket more waterproof and more my size.

SloButWide 

Clever, just realized that at first impression, a driver might read "POLITE" as "POLICE". Sort of like the dodgy "V6" badges on cars that look suspiciously like "V8".

timtak

Apparently the "Polite notice" encouraged drivers to come closer to the cyclist, perhaps by way of revenge, according to some research by that guy at Bristol University, I think. Perhaps it was posted earlier in the thread.

Here is my video review of my Arsuxeo high visibility shell jacket. I am pleased with it.

Hermes1

I wear a viz jacket as my rides in the dark are typically in the late fall through winter in the morning when there is a chill in the air and daylight has yet to make an appearance. I also have a very light hiviz jacket.