Commuting with Pedal Assist
#51
Senior Member
I personally think they are a good idea. I was considering one for my wife, who rides with me on longer rides but isnt as fit. So, I thought it would work as an "equalizer' of sorts. It would help her make it up the hills she struggles with but also get her out and riding with me more often as she gets frustrated when she struggles and I don't. I don't see myself or espcially my wife using one of the e-bikes in place of a car though.
#53
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So let's explore the gas powered idea. First, most designs I've seen on youtube are loud. I'd imagine there may be some vibration as well. Don't know about other States, but here in OK one has to register, tag, insure, and have special endorsement on the Drivers Licence for anything rated at 50cc or greater. Now I haven't priced a kit to add to my bike, not even really sure how big the motors are, but I'd imagine for the same price or just a little more, I could just get a scooter or motorcycle that would easily have greater speed and range.
My own personal experience with e-bikes consisted of a test ride at my LBS. Put a big grin on my face. But I realized that it would not work for me. The local transit service prohibits powered bikes on their racks- and I was a bike/bus commuter at the time. I could've used the bike for the entire distance going in, but it was doubtful if it would've recharged enough for the return home. But the biggest factor against was the cost. Not a single one in Trek's current line up is listed under $2200, and a quick Google search reveals a BionX conversion kit will easily run over a grand- and I saw that one battery was $838.
So I applaud your enthusiasm, but realize that you're pursuing a niche within a niche market. But it just occurred to me that you might be able to tap into the commercial/utility market and possibly explore physical rehab applications as well.
My own personal experience with e-bikes consisted of a test ride at my LBS. Put a big grin on my face. But I realized that it would not work for me. The local transit service prohibits powered bikes on their racks- and I was a bike/bus commuter at the time. I could've used the bike for the entire distance going in, but it was doubtful if it would've recharged enough for the return home. But the biggest factor against was the cost. Not a single one in Trek's current line up is listed under $2200, and a quick Google search reveals a BionX conversion kit will easily run over a grand- and I saw that one battery was $838.
So I applaud your enthusiasm, but realize that you're pursuing a niche within a niche market. But it just occurred to me that you might be able to tap into the commercial/utility market and possibly explore physical rehab applications as well.
Whew got a lot of responses to go!
#54
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There are all kinds of people w/all kinds of fitness levels commuting by bike. It's simply my feeling than any assist should be limited to those who really need it. I.e. handicapped, asthma sufferers, developmentally disabled, obese and looking to lose weight, etc. They need it. Any able-bodied person has got a pretty good idea of their physical limits and can adjust they're gearing/load capacity accordingly. Any kind of assist in simply unnecessary to anyone w/a solid sense of their own capabilities.
I really like your thoughts on a pedal assist system for those that are unhealthy so that they do not have to be alienated from the world of cycling. Thanks.
You can tell that all the dickish comments about e-bike riders being fat or lazy or not getting exercise come from self-righteous people who have never tried one. I have an e-bike & it has not made me lazier or fatter or caused me to get less exercise. It has been exactly the opposite. I have an e-bike and several regular bikes. I use the e-bike when I feel like it & the other bikes when I feel like using them. The e-bike is great for those rides that are just a bit too long for using my normal bike, when I would normally take the car, or if I have to get home from work in a hurry to be somewhere else. It allows me to use the bike MORE & the car LESS, allowing me to squeeze extra exercise into my day. BTW, my e-bike is a pedal-assist model (Trek FX+) which you have to pedal to get anything out of (no free ride) and the assist tops out at 20 MPH, so anything over that you are doing it all on your own.
From reading this thread, it sounds like the main thing keeping people from using one is ignorance.
From reading this thread, it sounds like the main thing keeping people from using one is ignorance.
Incorrect. They cost more, so people on a budget won't be shopping for them. They are heavier, so people who have to lug them up and down stairs all the time probably won't opt for them. And as I stated before, at least my local transit service won't allow power assisted bikes (gas or electric) on their bus mounted racks- which combined with the cost, made it made a deal breaker.
SJSU huh? That's my neck of the woods.
Pedal assist is awesome. Why is it awesome? Allows those who aren't healthy enough to still bike. When I say healthy I mean injuries, disabilities, pain or discomfort from specific conditions. For those who are more than capable, but don't want to be over exert themselves pedal assist makes sense too. It definitely has it's place in the world.
My personal reason, and I'm sure others can echo it, is that the beauty of a bicycle is the fact that it doesn't run on any fuel other than your own personal capacity. It might be a romantic idea, but the fact you determine how hard the bike works is a wonderful thought.
Furthermore, a lot of people use the bicycle not just a means of transportation, entertainment, hobby, but also as a fitness tool. You're killing two birds (if not more) with one stone if fitness is on your agenda. Throw in pedal assist and you're detracting from the fitness aspect of it all.
Cost (of installation and fuel), maintenance, weight, are all factors against pedal assist.
Pedal assist is awesome. Why is it awesome? Allows those who aren't healthy enough to still bike. When I say healthy I mean injuries, disabilities, pain or discomfort from specific conditions. For those who are more than capable, but don't want to be over exert themselves pedal assist makes sense too. It definitely has it's place in the world.
My personal reason, and I'm sure others can echo it, is that the beauty of a bicycle is the fact that it doesn't run on any fuel other than your own personal capacity. It might be a romantic idea, but the fact you determine how hard the bike works is a wonderful thought.
Furthermore, a lot of people use the bicycle not just a means of transportation, entertainment, hobby, but also as a fitness tool. You're killing two birds (if not more) with one stone if fitness is on your agenda. Throw in pedal assist and you're detracting from the fitness aspect of it all.
Cost (of installation and fuel), maintenance, weight, are all factors against pedal assist.
I really like your comment regarding those capable enough to ride but don't want to be over exerted. Plus with peddle assist there will still be effort.
Thanks.
#55
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
For others it is about getting to work, getting groceries, and living their lives with minimal automobile use. That desire to minimize automobile use may be motivated by reasons of fitness, environmental concerns, monetary concerns, or something else entirely; however, it comes down to a desire to drive less. The trouble is that this group is not motivated by the need to be awesome.
For the second crowd, the phrase that is so popular here, HTFU, is not an inducement or motivation, it is reminder that riding is an inferior (in economic terms -- something you do more of when you have less money) means of going about their lives.
The arrogant, dickishness, which is embodied in saying "HTFU" pushes a tremendous number of people away from riding and into the socially acceptable alternative.
Remember, the alternative to the e-bike is not being awesome on an awesome pushbike. The alternative is the more socially acceptable alternative of driving.
For the second crowd, the phrase that is so popular here, HTFU, is not an inducement or motivation, it is reminder that riding is an inferior (in economic terms -- something you do more of when you have less money) means of going about their lives.
The arrogant, dickishness, which is embodied in saying "HTFU" pushes a tremendous number of people away from riding and into the socially acceptable alternative.
Remember, the alternative to the e-bike is not being awesome on an awesome pushbike. The alternative is the more socially acceptable alternative of driving.
I would like an electric assist if it doesn't change the way my bicycle functions without using the electricity. In other words, if I don't want a strictly electric assist bicycle. I want to be able to remove the battery and lighten the bicycle up and ride like normal. If I want some "juice" then slap the battery on and go. I also don't want the pedal assist.......I just want a thumb throttle for when I need it. I know there are some legal issues with this but I don't want the bicycle to be limited by a technicality due to a law.
I was in the LBS when the owner got an phone inquiry about eBikes. The caller lost his DL (too many DUI's), was not very fit, and only had one leg.
He could get a 50hp moped without needing a DL, but they cannot go fast enough to ride on freeways or be safe on some of the high-speed arterials. Mopeds aren't allowed on MUPs. That would be a serious impediment in some areas.
I believe the eBikes are allowed on the bike paths/MUPs.
If I were to lose my DL, I would be interested in an eBike.
If car driving gets more expensive or if gas shortages become a problem, I would be very interested in an eBike or small motor scooter. That assumes many other people would be making the same choice.
He could get a 50hp moped without needing a DL, but they cannot go fast enough to ride on freeways or be safe on some of the high-speed arterials. Mopeds aren't allowed on MUPs. That would be a serious impediment in some areas.
I believe the eBikes are allowed on the bike paths/MUPs.
If I were to lose my DL, I would be interested in an eBike.
If car driving gets more expensive or if gas shortages become a problem, I would be very interested in an eBike or small motor scooter. That assumes many other people would be making the same choice.
#56
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
my two cents:
First drop the gas powed thought entirely. They are noisy, smelly (my guess is that they put out way more pollution than modern car) and generally irritating. Many of them are put on cheap bikes and don't have any where near enought braking power to deal with the motor
Define your goal, which will drive the design and requirements. Is the goal to have a fully functional bike that can have some assist when needed (ie hills, wind, exta load) or to have what is essentially an electric moped that doesn't really require pedaling? (Many eBikes out there are electric mopeds, not practical for pedaling and only have pedals to qualiify as bikes for legal reasons.) The market for both would be different
Assuming you are going for assist only, then you have to make sure the overall package is light, easy to integrate with a manufacturing process (new bikes) or retrofit to existing bikes. There will have to be a critical balance between range and weight. The control will also be critical.....does it cut in automatically, what triggers the cut in, does it cutout at a top end speed?
I personally would not be interested in one today, but I could see that in 20-30 years a small light pedal assist might be of value if it help keep me riding on a bike. or at least flatten the hills.
First drop the gas powed thought entirely. They are noisy, smelly (my guess is that they put out way more pollution than modern car) and generally irritating. Many of them are put on cheap bikes and don't have any where near enought braking power to deal with the motor
Define your goal, which will drive the design and requirements. Is the goal to have a fully functional bike that can have some assist when needed (ie hills, wind, exta load) or to have what is essentially an electric moped that doesn't really require pedaling? (Many eBikes out there are electric mopeds, not practical for pedaling and only have pedals to qualiify as bikes for legal reasons.) The market for both would be different
Assuming you are going for assist only, then you have to make sure the overall package is light, easy to integrate with a manufacturing process (new bikes) or retrofit to existing bikes. There will have to be a critical balance between range and weight. The control will also be critical.....does it cut in automatically, what triggers the cut in, does it cutout at a top end speed?
I personally would not be interested in one today, but I could see that in 20-30 years a small light pedal assist might be of value if it help keep me riding on a bike. or at least flatten the hills.
What part of *I* would get lazy and fatter don't you understand? How is this a comment on e-bike riders? I know some who get more exercise from e-bikes because otherwise, they would ride less or not at all. It's not my case. I've thought getting an e-bike for those harder days but I weighed the pros and cons and it isn't worth it, at least for now. I know myself enough that getting lazy is one of the cons.
That is really a good point. It's like a business that still operates at a loss after many years! Thanks.
#57
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I personally think they are a good idea. I was considering one for my wife, who rides with me on longer rides but isnt as fit. So, I thought it would work as an "equalizer' of sorts. It would help her make it up the hills she struggles with but also get her out and riding with me more often as she gets frustrated when she struggles and I don't. I don't see myself or espcially my wife using one of the e-bikes in place of a car though.
#58
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'd really like to thank everyone for bringing in their thoughts into this thread. I apologize if I did not comment on your contribution directly, but please know that I welcome and appreciate everyone active in this thread. You have all helped out greatly and the information you have all shared will hopefully find their use as I progress in my studies.
This is not to say that I want this thread to end (this project will last until the end of December), so if more thoughts an pedal-assist pop up please do not hesitate to fill this place up!
Thanks all.
This is not to say that I want this thread to end (this project will last until the end of December), so if more thoughts an pedal-assist pop up please do not hesitate to fill this place up!
Thanks all.
#59
Lentement mais sûrement
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montréal
Posts: 2,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
Those I know who ride e-bikes are older. Pushing the pedals for a significant time and distance is hard for them. I think you'd have a bigger market among people who bike little or not at all because it requires too much effort and/or don't want to get to work in a sweat. How to reach them? I don't know. I wish e-bikes were advertised the way cars are but what bike company has that kind of budget?
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North County San Diego
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Some day I would like to have something like this but it seems more of a novelty right now. I like the idea of pedaling and even the challenge of hills.
There's a guy on my commuting route that rides a gas powered one. We're always riding in opposite directions and when we sees me he sits up real tall and acts like he's pedaling. Lol
There's a guy on my commuting route that rides a gas powered one. We're always riding in opposite directions and when we sees me he sits up real tall and acts like he's pedaling. Lol
#61
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's simply not worth the cost. Most times I use the car is because I want/need 4 wheels, a roof, to carry large or heavy things or to get there quickly (3-4 time faster). Basically, it's when I don't want to be on a bike of any kind.
Those I know who ride e-bikes are older. Pushing the pedals for a significant time and distance is hard for them. I think you'd have a bigger market among people who bike little or not at all because it requires too much effort and/or don't want to get to work in a sweat. How to reach them? I don't know. I wish e-bikes were advertised the way cars are but what bike company has that kind of budget?
Those I know who ride e-bikes are older. Pushing the pedals for a significant time and distance is hard for them. I think you'd have a bigger market among people who bike little or not at all because it requires too much effort and/or don't want to get to work in a sweat. How to reach them? I don't know. I wish e-bikes were advertised the way cars are but what bike company has that kind of budget?
Some day I would like to have something like this but it seems more of a novelty right now. I like the idea of pedaling and even the challenge of hills.
There's a guy on my commuting route that rides a gas powered one. We're always riding in opposite directions and when we sees me he sits up real tall and acts like he's pedaling. Lol
There's a guy on my commuting route that rides a gas powered one. We're always riding in opposite directions and when we sees me he sits up real tall and acts like he's pedaling. Lol
#62
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,620
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3868 Post(s)
Liked 2,559 Times
in
1,574 Posts
I think that would be an uphill battle, and you'd be better off just trying to reach your target market. That is, people who wouldn't be cycling without some kind of help.
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 1,846
Bikes: 2006 Specialized Ruby Pro aka "Rhubarb" / and a backup road bike
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
4 Posts
In my case, I have epilepsy. One seizure with loss of consciousness and I'd have my drivers license revoked for many months. Gave up drinking anyhow.
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I like how you pointed out that it is a desire to drive less (cars) and really like that you brought up that the point is to have society accept it as an alternative to driving. What do you think it would take to achieve this?
So the legality of a motor concerns you then? I suppose you are correct in that a slap-on system would be ideal for that scenario. Thanks.
Thanks! That is a pretty interesting story and I have never thought of it catering to DUI people. What did you mean when you said, "that assumes many other people would be making the same choice?"
So the legality of a motor concerns you then? I suppose you are correct in that a slap-on system would be ideal for that scenario. Thanks.
Thanks! That is a pretty interesting story and I have never thought of it catering to DUI people. What did you mean when you said, "that assumes many other people would be making the same choice?"
Not the legality of merely having a moter, no. I do know that there are some legal details that I'm really not too "up on". Mainly how an electric bicycle is controled regarding the accelerator. If I can use an electric motor with a thumb or twist throttle then I would be for it but if I have to pedal all the time to run the motor then that would suck. I also don't want some cross breed between a scooter and a bicycle. I want my Surly LHT have an electric boost option. If the design was too heavy or bulky or interfered with the function or performance of it being an efficient bicycle then its not worth it. With the right design and weight I would go for it. I guess its all in what we expect in performance that limits us. If we want it to go fast or be able to pull us up hills then it has to be "beefy". If we only want it to help us on long straight areas when we are already up to speed then they would require much less power and torque and could be sized down to a very reasonable weight. Some electric bicycles are not bicycles, they are scooters that use a bicycle frame to keep from being regulated by the Department of Transportation. I don't want one of these monsters. Here is a link that talks about this.
What is the legal status of electric bikes?
Electric bikes are considered to be the same as regular bikes under the laws of many states. They can be used in the same places as regular bikes unless the law explicitly states otherwise. Under federal law, any electric bike with a top speed of less than 20MPH under motor power alone falls under the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission instead of the Department of Transportation, just like regular bikes.
https://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html
Last edited by IndianaShawn; 03-09-12 at 11:57 PM.
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Here is an interesting setup. I see that it has an optional throttle assist lever. I like this but I think I would like it more if the motor was on the front leaving the drive train of my Surly LHT alone. The price is a bit steep and the weight is a bit much but they are getting lighter and lighter. Soon it will come together I think.
https://www.biketechshop.com/bionx-sl...it-p-2499.html
These are all front wheel motors but I don't think the Bionx can use them since they aren't designed for the computer. Not sure about that though.
https://www.bikeberry.com/electric-motor-kits.html
https://www.biketechshop.com/bionx-sl...it-p-2499.html
These are all front wheel motors but I don't think the Bionx can use them since they aren't designed for the computer. Not sure about that though.
https://www.bikeberry.com/electric-motor-kits.html
Last edited by IndianaShawn; 03-10-12 at 01:08 PM.
#66
Banned
Usually when I start eyeing pedal assist is on days with considerable head winds, going uphill, and with a load of groceries at the same time. I was down to my last two gears on my little triple the other day, two gears away from seriously purchasing an electric assist add on.
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
For me, an electric assist fit my needs perfectly. For my morning commute, time is the most important thing. I am not old, I am not fat, but I do have a bad knee that can be a problem if I push it too hard, which I usually do because I want to get to work in under an hour which usually requires me to ride at 18-22 mph.
I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.
I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.
The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.
Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).
I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.
For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.
I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.
The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.
Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).
I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.
For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
Last edited by CXT; 03-11-12 at 06:12 PM.
#68
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,620
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3868 Post(s)
Liked 2,559 Times
in
1,574 Posts
For me, an electric assist fit my needs perfectly. For my morning commute, time is the most important thing. I am not old, I am not fat, but I do have a bad knee that can be a problem if I push it too hard, which I usually do because I want to get to work in under an hour which usually requires me to ride at 18-22 mph.
I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.
I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.
The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.
Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).
I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.
For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.
I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.
The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.
Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).
I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.
For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Bay
Posts: 274
Bikes: Globe Vienna 3 Disc
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
my two cents:
Assuming you are going for assist only, then you have to make sure the overall package is light, easy to integrate with a manufacturing process (new bikes) or retrofit to existing bikes. There will have to be a critical balance between range and weight. The control will also be critical.....does it cut in automatically, what triggers the cut in, does it cutout at a top end speed?
Assuming you are going for assist only, then you have to make sure the overall package is light, easy to integrate with a manufacturing process (new bikes) or retrofit to existing bikes. There will have to be a critical balance between range and weight. The control will also be critical.....does it cut in automatically, what triggers the cut in, does it cutout at a top end speed?
Let's be honest, you and I love working on our own bikes and learning the mechanics of it, but 87% (i just made that percentage up) of Americans don't even know how to drive a manual transmission car. The layman doesn't want to know how to use a derailleur and doesn't care how it works. "Does it go? Ok, then go".
I can see an increase in people using pedal assist IF IT'S MECHANICALLY EASY.
Just my two cents.
#70
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 17
Bikes: Haro Zero, Stumpy FSR 29er, Garbage bin commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Not the legality of merely having a moter, no. I do know that there are some legal details that I'm really not too "up on". Mainly how an electric bicycle is controled regarding the accelerator. If I can use an electric motor with a thumb or twist throttle then I would be for it but if I have to pedal all the time to run the motor then that would suck. I also don't want some cross breed between a scooter and a bicycle. I want my Surly LHT have an electric boost option. If the design was too heavy or bulky or interfered with the function or performance of it being an efficient bicycle then its not worth it. With the right design and weight I would go for it. I guess its all in what we expect in performance that limits us. If we want it to go fast or be able to pull us up hills then it has to be "beefy". If we only want it to help us on long straight areas when we are already up to speed then they would require much less power and torque and could be sized down to a very reasonable weight. Some electric bicycles are not bicycles, they are scooters that use a bicycle frame to keep from being regulated by the Department of Transportation. I don't want one of these monsters. Here is a link that talks about this.
What is the legal status of electric bikes?
Electric bikes are considered to be the same as regular bikes under the laws of many states. They can be used in the same places as regular bikes unless the law explicitly states otherwise. Under federal law, any electric bike with a top speed of less than 20MPH under motor power alone falls under the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission instead of the Department of Transportation, just like regular bikes.
https://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html
What is the legal status of electric bikes?
Electric bikes are considered to be the same as regular bikes under the laws of many states. They can be used in the same places as regular bikes unless the law explicitly states otherwise. Under federal law, any electric bike with a top speed of less than 20MPH under motor power alone falls under the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission instead of the Department of Transportation, just like regular bikes.
https://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html
Here is an interesting setup. I see that it has an optional throttle assist lever. I like this but I think I would like it more if the motor was on the front leaving the drive train of my Surly LHT alone. The price is a bit steep and the weight is a bit much but they are getting lighter and lighter. Soon it will come together I think.
https://www.biketechshop.com/bionx-sl...it-p-2499.html
These are all front wheel motors but I don't think the Bionx can use them since they aren't designed for the computer. Not sure about that though.
https://www.bikeberry.com/electric-motor-kits.html
https://www.biketechshop.com/bionx-sl...it-p-2499.html
These are all front wheel motors but I don't think the Bionx can use them since they aren't designed for the computer. Not sure about that though.
https://www.bikeberry.com/electric-motor-kits.html
Usually when I start eyeing pedal assist is on days with considerable head winds, going uphill, and with a load of groceries at the same time. I was down to my last two gears on my little triple the other day, two gears away from seriously purchasing an electric assist add on.
For me, an electric assist fit my needs perfectly. For my morning commute, time is the most important thing. I am not old, I am not fat, but I do have a bad knee that can be a problem if I push it too hard, which I usually do because I want to get to work in under an hour which usually requires me to ride at 18-22 mph.
I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.
I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.
The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.
Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).
I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.
For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.
I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.
The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.
Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).
I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.
For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
I think squirt dad hit it on the head.....It has to be EASY to really catch on with the masses.
Let's be honest, you and I love working on our own bikes and learning the mechanics of it, but 87% (i just made that percentage up) of Americans don't even know how to drive a manual transmission car. The layman doesn't want to know how to use a derailleur and doesn't care how it works. "Does it go? Ok, then go".
I can see an increase in people using pedal assist IF IT'S MECHANICALLY EASY.
Just my two cents.
Let's be honest, you and I love working on our own bikes and learning the mechanics of it, but 87% (i just made that percentage up) of Americans don't even know how to drive a manual transmission car. The layman doesn't want to know how to use a derailleur and doesn't care how it works. "Does it go? Ok, then go".
I can see an increase in people using pedal assist IF IT'S MECHANICALLY EASY.
Just my two cents.
Thanks again all! Keep em' coming.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
sefloval
Commuting
43
10-30-15 03:10 PM