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Commuting with Pedal Assist

Old 03-08-12, 09:47 PM
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I personally think they are a good idea. I was considering one for my wife, who rides with me on longer rides but isnt as fit. So, I thought it would work as an "equalizer' of sorts. It would help her make it up the hills she struggles with but also get her out and riding with me more often as she gets frustrated when she struggles and I don't. I don't see myself or espcially my wife using one of the e-bikes in place of a car though.
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Old 03-08-12, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MK313
Nonetheless, if you are the type that is uniquely prone to being fat & lazy, then an e-bike is probably not for you.
That's what I said in my first post.
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Old 03-09-12, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by modernjess
At this point in my life electric assist is not for me. I'm a simplicity guy that loves to pedal. But I have nothing against it, and I honestly believe it is going to be a huge trend for many of the reasons already stated above and that it is just getting started.
Thanks for contributing, and I have to agree again that the future seems right for these things.

Originally Posted by no1mad
So let's explore the gas powered idea. First, most designs I've seen on youtube are loud. I'd imagine there may be some vibration as well. Don't know about other States, but here in OK one has to register, tag, insure, and have special endorsement on the Drivers Licence for anything rated at 50cc or greater. Now I haven't priced a kit to add to my bike, not even really sure how big the motors are, but I'd imagine for the same price or just a little more, I could just get a scooter or motorcycle that would easily have greater speed and range.

My own personal experience with e-bikes consisted of a test ride at my LBS. Put a big grin on my face. But I realized that it would not work for me. The local transit service prohibits powered bikes on their racks- and I was a bike/bus commuter at the time. I could've used the bike for the entire distance going in, but it was doubtful if it would've recharged enough for the return home. But the biggest factor against was the cost. Not a single one in Trek's current line up is listed under $2200, and a quick Google search reveals a BionX conversion kit will easily run over a grand- and I saw that one battery was $838.

So I applaud your enthusiasm, but realize that you're pursuing a niche within a niche market. But it just occurred to me that you might be able to tap into the commercial/utility market and possibly explore physical rehab applications as well.
Thanks for that! I actually did try one of those 2-stroke add-ons and despite it bringing back memories of my old dirt-bike (kickstart and all) I just could not stand knowing some jogger with a baby might not appreciate me polluting the air. Your thoughts on price is really important, and clearly has to be addressed for things to happen. You mentioning the exploration of physical rehab is very interesting and will keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by no1mad
Back on topic- I personally wouldn't mind an e-bike, especially now that the battery packs are designed to lay on the rack instead of off of it. But the cost is still prohibitive. Until the costs come down, it's doubtful it will readily be adopted by the masses.
I'm glad to hear that cost is coming up again as it serves as a concrete area to be tackled. Thanks!

Whew got a lot of responses to go!
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Old 03-09-12, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by nashcommguy
There are all kinds of people w/all kinds of fitness levels commuting by bike. It's simply my feeling than any assist should be limited to those who really need it. I.e. handicapped, asthma sufferers, developmentally disabled, obese and looking to lose weight, etc. They need it. Any able-bodied person has got a pretty good idea of their physical limits and can adjust they're gearing/load capacity accordingly. Any kind of assist in simply unnecessary to anyone w/a solid sense of their own capabilities.
I think the quip about doing zig-zags for commuting was to point out a scenario in which a pedal assist may be helpful.

I really like your thoughts on a pedal assist system for those that are unhealthy so that they do not have to be alienated from the world of cycling. Thanks.

Originally Posted by MK313
You can tell that all the dickish comments about e-bike riders being fat or lazy or not getting exercise come from self-righteous people who have never tried one. I have an e-bike & it has not made me lazier or fatter or caused me to get less exercise. It has been exactly the opposite. I have an e-bike and several regular bikes. I use the e-bike when I feel like it & the other bikes when I feel like using them. The e-bike is great for those rides that are just a bit too long for using my normal bike, when I would normally take the car, or if I have to get home from work in a hurry to be somewhere else. It allows me to use the bike MORE & the car LESS, allowing me to squeeze extra exercise into my day. BTW, my e-bike is a pedal-assist model (Trek FX+) which you have to pedal to get anything out of (no free ride) and the assist tops out at 20 MPH, so anything over that you are doing it all on your own.

From reading this thread, it sounds like the main thing keeping people from using one is ignorance.
Realy good content here, and I really appreciate you bringing up your Trek FX+ because it is the direction that I believe these bikes should go. Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by no1mad
Incorrect. They cost more, so people on a budget won't be shopping for them. They are heavier, so people who have to lug them up and down stairs all the time probably won't opt for them. And as I stated before, at least my local transit service won't allow power assisted bikes (gas or electric) on their bus mounted racks- which combined with the cost, made it made a deal breaker.
I really like that you mentioned weight because that is definately an area that needs to be addressed, especially when the "juice" runs out. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Tigerprawn
SJSU huh? That's my neck of the woods.

Pedal assist is awesome. Why is it awesome? Allows those who aren't healthy enough to still bike. When I say healthy I mean injuries, disabilities, pain or discomfort from specific conditions. For those who are more than capable, but don't want to be over exert themselves pedal assist makes sense too. It definitely has it's place in the world.

My personal reason, and I'm sure others can echo it, is that the beauty of a bicycle is the fact that it doesn't run on any fuel other than your own personal capacity. It might be a romantic idea, but the fact you determine how hard the bike works is a wonderful thought.



Furthermore, a lot of people use the bicycle not just a means of transportation, entertainment, hobby, but also as a fitness tool. You're killing two birds (if not more) with one stone if fitness is on your agenda. Throw in pedal assist and you're detracting from the fitness aspect of it all.

Cost (of installation and fuel), maintenance, weight, are all factors against pedal assist.
Yeah I graduate in the fall (if all goes well).

I really like your comment regarding those capable enough to ride but don't want to be over exerted. Plus with peddle assist there will still be effort.

Thanks.
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Old 03-09-12, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert C
For others it is about getting to work, getting groceries, and living their lives with minimal automobile use. That desire to minimize automobile use may be motivated by reasons of fitness, environmental concerns, monetary concerns, or something else entirely; however, it comes down to a desire to drive less. The trouble is that this group is not motivated by the need to be awesome.

For the second crowd, the phrase that is so popular here, HTFU, is not an inducement or motivation, it is reminder that riding is an inferior (in economic terms -- something you do more of when you have less money) means of going about their lives.
The arrogant, dickishness, which is embodied in saying "HTFU" pushes a tremendous number of people away from riding and into the socially acceptable alternative.

Remember, the alternative to the e-bike is not being awesome on an awesome pushbike. The alternative is the more socially acceptable alternative of driving.
I like how you pointed out that it is a desire to drive less (cars) and really like that you brought up that the point is to have society accept it as an alternative to driving. What do you think it would take to achieve this?

Originally Posted by IndianaShawn
I would like an electric assist if it doesn't change the way my bicycle functions without using the electricity. In other words, if I don't want a strictly electric assist bicycle. I want to be able to remove the battery and lighten the bicycle up and ride like normal. If I want some "juice" then slap the battery on and go. I also don't want the pedal assist.......I just want a thumb throttle for when I need it. I know there are some legal issues with this but I don't want the bicycle to be limited by a technicality due to a law.
So the legality of a motor concerns you then? I suppose you are correct in that a slap-on system would be ideal for that scenario. Thanks.

Originally Posted by nkfrench
I was in the LBS when the owner got an phone inquiry about eBikes. The caller lost his DL (too many DUI's), was not very fit, and only had one leg.
He could get a 50hp moped without needing a DL, but they cannot go fast enough to ride on freeways or be safe on some of the high-speed arterials. Mopeds aren't allowed on MUPs. That would be a serious impediment in some areas.

I believe the eBikes are allowed on the bike paths/MUPs.

If I were to lose my DL, I would be interested in an eBike.
If car driving gets more expensive or if gas shortages become a problem, I would be very interested in an eBike or small motor scooter. That assumes many other people would be making the same choice.
Thanks! That is a pretty interesting story and I have never thought of it catering to DUI people. What did you mean when you said, "that assumes many other people would be making the same choice?"
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Old 03-09-12, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
my two cents:

First drop the gas powed thought entirely. They are noisy, smelly (my guess is that they put out way more pollution than modern car) and generally irritating. Many of them are put on cheap bikes and don't have any where near enought braking power to deal with the motor

Define your goal, which will drive the design and requirements. Is the goal to have a fully functional bike that can have some assist when needed (ie hills, wind, exta load) or to have what is essentially an electric moped that doesn't really require pedaling? (Many eBikes out there are electric mopeds, not practical for pedaling and only have pedals to qualiify as bikes for legal reasons.) The market for both would be different

Assuming you are going for assist only, then you have to make sure the overall package is light, easy to integrate with a manufacturing process (new bikes) or retrofit to existing bikes. There will have to be a critical balance between range and weight. The control will also be critical.....does it cut in automatically, what triggers the cut in, does it cutout at a top end speed?

I personally would not be interested in one today, but I could see that in 20-30 years a small light pedal assist might be of value if it help keep me riding on a bike. or at least flatten the hills.
Thank you. All very insightful topics you touched on, designer or engineer? I like your thoughts regarding the balance between power and the weight that it results from.

Originally Posted by PaulH
I think its the hassle factor. You have to plug the damn thing in every night. Every blasted night. With a real bike, you just hop on aqnd go. I started cycling to work because I was too lazy to put up with driving.

Paul
I like your comment about "hop and go" and I feel like if a pedal assist bike could allow that then it would be smooth sailing no? Thanks.

Originally Posted by xtrajack
I first heard of e-assist, in connection with cargo bikes--got one, love it. It is also my primary, preferred commuter vehicle.
I got rid of my Ford F-150 about a year ago.
That's awesome! I assume you still face numerous hurdles in your choice and I was wondering if you could perhaps share some stories in that matter? Thanks for chiming in.

Originally Posted by Erick L
What part of *I* would get lazy and fatter don't you understand? How is this a comment on e-bike riders? I know some who get more exercise from e-bikes because otherwise, they would ride less or not at all. It's not my case. I've thought getting an e-bike for those harder days but I weighed the pros and cons and it isn't worth it, at least for now. I know myself enough that getting lazy is one of the cons.
May I ask what was the tipping factor when you weighed out your options?

Originally Posted by wphamilton
Bryan D, I'm sometimes tempted to rig one up but one thing stops me. For any reasonably affordable setup the performance isn't much better than I can do without it. If it can't significantly outperform me, there's much less point to it.
That is really a good point. It's like a business that still operates at a loss after many years! Thanks.
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Old 03-09-12, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mondo734
I personally think they are a good idea. I was considering one for my wife, who rides with me on longer rides but isnt as fit. So, I thought it would work as an "equalizer' of sorts. It would help her make it up the hills she struggles with but also get her out and riding with me more often as she gets frustrated when she struggles and I don't. I don't see myself or espcially my wife using one of the e-bikes in place of a car though.
That is really interesting. I have read, from another forum, that someone bought their child an e-bike so that the pair could ride together in even the most demanding of hills. So what, if you don't mind me asking, is keeping you at this moment from going through with your plan to get peddle assist for the wifey?
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Old 03-09-12, 05:06 AM
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I'd really like to thank everyone for bringing in their thoughts into this thread. I apologize if I did not comment on your contribution directly, but please know that I welcome and appreciate everyone active in this thread. You have all helped out greatly and the information you have all shared will hopefully find their use as I progress in my studies.

This is not to say that I want this thread to end (this project will last until the end of December), so if more thoughts an pedal-assist pop up please do not hesitate to fill this place up!

Thanks all.
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Old 03-09-12, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bryan_d
May I ask what was the tipping factor when you weighed out your options?
It's simply not worth the cost. Most times I use the car is because I want/need 4 wheels, a roof, to carry large or heavy things or to get there quickly (3-4 time faster). Basically, it's when I don't want to be on a bike of any kind.

Those I know who ride e-bikes are older. Pushing the pedals for a significant time and distance is hard for them. I think you'd have a bigger market among people who bike little or not at all because it requires too much effort and/or don't want to get to work in a sweat. How to reach them? I don't know. I wish e-bikes were advertised the way cars are but what bike company has that kind of budget?
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Old 03-09-12, 10:54 AM
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Some day I would like to have something like this but it seems more of a novelty right now. I like the idea of pedaling and even the challenge of hills.

There's a guy on my commuting route that rides a gas powered one. We're always riding in opposite directions and when we sees me he sits up real tall and acts like he's pedaling. Lol
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Old 03-09-12, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Erick L
It's simply not worth the cost. Most times I use the car is because I want/need 4 wheels, a roof, to carry large or heavy things or to get there quickly (3-4 time faster). Basically, it's when I don't want to be on a bike of any kind.

Those I know who ride e-bikes are older. Pushing the pedals for a significant time and distance is hard for them. I think you'd have a bigger market among people who bike little or not at all because it requires too much effort and/or don't want to get to work in a sweat. How to reach them? I don't know. I wish e-bikes were advertised the way cars are but what bike company has that kind of budget?
Thanks for getting back to me, and I agree in that the market would have to cater to those who don't bike yet, bike little, or those lacking the ability to travel the distance for whatever reason. Thanks for affirming my assumptions.

Originally Posted by megalowmatt
Some day I would like to have something like this but it seems more of a novelty right now. I like the idea of pedaling and even the challenge of hills.

There's a guy on my commuting route that rides a gas powered one. We're always riding in opposite directions and when we sees me he sits up real tall and acts like he's pedaling. Lol
So this leads me to believe that the stigma of pedal assist needs to be addressed so that all parties feel comfortable with their existence. Thanks for that.
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Old 03-09-12, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bryan_d
So this leads me to believe that the stigma of pedal assist needs to be addressed so that all parties feel comfortable with their existence. Thanks for that.
I think that would be an uphill battle, and you'd be better off just trying to reach your target market. That is, people who wouldn't be cycling without some kind of help.
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Old 03-09-12, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bryan_d
Thanks! That is a pretty interesting story and I have never thought of it catering to DUI people. What did you mean when you said, "that assumes many other people would be making the same choice?"
If gas was too expensive for me to want to drive to work, I assume others would make the same choice to purchase a scooter or ride a bike. Fewer cars/trucks on the road and more scooters and more bicycles would tend to make traffic friendlier to the smaller slower vehicles. There is an awful lot of aggressive driving in speeding vehicles on the most direct routes now.

In my case, I have epilepsy. One seizure with loss of consciousness and I'd have my drivers license revoked for many months. Gave up drinking anyhow.
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Old 03-09-12, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bryan_d
I like how you pointed out that it is a desire to drive less (cars) and really like that you brought up that the point is to have society accept it as an alternative to driving. What do you think it would take to achieve this?



So the legality of a motor concerns you then? I suppose you are correct in that a slap-on system would be ideal for that scenario. Thanks.



Thanks! That is a pretty interesting story and I have never thought of it catering to DUI people. What did you mean when you said, "that assumes many other people would be making the same choice?"

Not the legality of merely having a moter, no. I do know that there are some legal details that I'm really not too "up on". Mainly how an electric bicycle is controled regarding the accelerator. If I can use an electric motor with a thumb or twist throttle then I would be for it but if I have to pedal all the time to run the motor then that would suck. I also don't want some cross breed between a scooter and a bicycle. I want my Surly LHT have an electric boost option. If the design was too heavy or bulky or interfered with the function or performance of it being an efficient bicycle then its not worth it. With the right design and weight I would go for it. I guess its all in what we expect in performance that limits us. If we want it to go fast or be able to pull us up hills then it has to be "beefy". If we only want it to help us on long straight areas when we are already up to speed then they would require much less power and torque and could be sized down to a very reasonable weight. Some electric bicycles are not bicycles, they are scooters that use a bicycle frame to keep from being regulated by the Department of Transportation. I don't want one of these monsters. Here is a link that talks about this.

What is the legal status of electric bikes?
Electric bikes are considered to be the same as regular bikes under the laws of many states. They can be used in the same places as regular bikes unless the law explicitly states otherwise. Under federal law, any electric bike with a top speed of less than 20MPH under motor power alone falls under the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission instead of the Department of Transportation, just like regular bikes.


https://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html

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Old 03-10-12, 01:01 PM
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Here is an interesting setup. I see that it has an optional throttle assist lever. I like this but I think I would like it more if the motor was on the front leaving the drive train of my Surly LHT alone. The price is a bit steep and the weight is a bit much but they are getting lighter and lighter. Soon it will come together I think.

https://www.biketechshop.com/bionx-sl...it-p-2499.html

These are all front wheel motors but I don't think the Bionx can use them since they aren't designed for the computer. Not sure about that though.

https://www.bikeberry.com/electric-motor-kits.html

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Old 03-10-12, 04:26 PM
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Usually when I start eyeing pedal assist is on days with considerable head winds, going uphill, and with a load of groceries at the same time. I was down to my last two gears on my little triple the other day, two gears away from seriously purchasing an electric assist add on.
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Old 03-11-12, 05:31 PM
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For me, an electric assist fit my needs perfectly. For my morning commute, time is the most important thing. I am not old, I am not fat, but I do have a bad knee that can be a problem if I push it too hard, which I usually do because I want to get to work in under an hour which usually requires me to ride at 18-22 mph.

I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.

I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.

The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.

Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).

I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.

For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.

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Old 03-11-12, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CXT
For me, an electric assist fit my needs perfectly. For my morning commute, time is the most important thing. I am not old, I am not fat, but I do have a bad knee that can be a problem if I push it too hard, which I usually do because I want to get to work in under an hour which usually requires me to ride at 18-22 mph.

I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.

I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.

The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.

Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).

I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.

For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
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Old 03-12-12, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
my two cents:
Assuming you are going for assist only, then you have to make sure the overall package is light, easy to integrate with a manufacturing process (new bikes) or retrofit to existing bikes. There will have to be a critical balance between range and weight. The control will also be critical.....does it cut in automatically, what triggers the cut in, does it cutout at a top end speed?
I think squirt dad hit it on the head.....It has to be EASY to really catch on with the masses.

Let's be honest, you and I love working on our own bikes and learning the mechanics of it, but 87% (i just made that percentage up) of Americans don't even know how to drive a manual transmission car. The layman doesn't want to know how to use a derailleur and doesn't care how it works. "Does it go? Ok, then go".

I can see an increase in people using pedal assist IF IT'S MECHANICALLY EASY.

Just my two cents.
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Old 03-22-12, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by IndianaShawn
Not the legality of merely having a moter, no. I do know that there are some legal details that I'm really not too "up on". Mainly how an electric bicycle is controled regarding the accelerator. If I can use an electric motor with a thumb or twist throttle then I would be for it but if I have to pedal all the time to run the motor then that would suck. I also don't want some cross breed between a scooter and a bicycle. I want my Surly LHT have an electric boost option. If the design was too heavy or bulky or interfered with the function or performance of it being an efficient bicycle then its not worth it. With the right design and weight I would go for it. I guess its all in what we expect in performance that limits us. If we want it to go fast or be able to pull us up hills then it has to be "beefy". If we only want it to help us on long straight areas when we are already up to speed then they would require much less power and torque and could be sized down to a very reasonable weight. Some electric bicycles are not bicycles, they are scooters that use a bicycle frame to keep from being regulated by the Department of Transportation. I don't want one of these monsters. Here is a link that talks about this.

What is the legal status of electric bikes?
Electric bikes are considered to be the same as regular bikes under the laws of many states. They can be used in the same places as regular bikes unless the law explicitly states otherwise. Under federal law, any electric bike with a top speed of less than 20MPH under motor power alone falls under the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission instead of the Department of Transportation, just like regular bikes.


https://www.ecospeed.com/faq.html
Thanks for the link, I really appreciate it. Your thoughts regarding pedaling to activate the motor is an interesting one because, it kind of goes against the thoughts people have shown. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by IndianaShawn
Here is an interesting setup. I see that it has an optional throttle assist lever. I like this but I think I would like it more if the motor was on the front leaving the drive train of my Surly LHT alone. The price is a bit steep and the weight is a bit much but they are getting lighter and lighter. Soon it will come together I think.

https://www.biketechshop.com/bionx-sl...it-p-2499.html

These are all front wheel motors but I don't think the Bionx can use them since they aren't designed for the computer. Not sure about that though.

https://www.bikeberry.com/electric-motor-kits.html
Thanks for the post, the links will prove useful.

Originally Posted by dynodonn
Usually when I start eyeing pedal assist is on days with considerable head winds, going uphill, and with a load of groceries at the same time. I was down to my last two gears on my little triple the other day, two gears away from seriously purchasing an electric assist add on.
I once had to do the same along with a full back pack, so I know where you're coming from. Thanks for chiming in.

Originally Posted by CXT
For me, an electric assist fit my needs perfectly. For my morning commute, time is the most important thing. I am not old, I am not fat, but I do have a bad knee that can be a problem if I push it too hard, which I usually do because I want to get to work in under an hour which usually requires me to ride at 18-22 mph.

I live in the Midwest (very high winds) with a lot of hills on my commute. One hill in particular is not the safest so I usually have to bust my a$$ to get up it as quickly as possible to avoid too many problems with cars.

I used to commute to work on a converted mountain bike that could carry all my stuff, but was sooooo slow. My commute on my CF road bike was soooo fast but I could not carry anything. So, I recently purchased a Trek Valencia+ and it's AWESOME! With panniers on the back, it's pretty hard to tell it's even an electric bike. I keep the assist level low to conserve battery due to my commute being about 20 miles one way, and the effort I put into it is comparable to my mountain bike doing 14 MPH but with the assist I am doing 20MPH all the way to work. It shaved at least 15-30 minutes off my commute time, depending on conditions.

The price and weight are the biggest disadvantages of it.

Trek uses Bionx systems, which thus far has been trouble free. I bike on it regardless of weather - sun, rain, and snow (although this year not much snow).

I do catch hell from some so-called 'real cyclists' (aka full fledged members of the spandex mafia) about it being cheating but these are the same guys that ride their cars to work.

For me, it's insanely fun to ride and saves me a lot of time. After riding it for the past 6 months, I'd still buy it today even if I had a good knee. From a utility standpoint, its a great tool.
Really great things you said here, and I thank you for contributing. Your reasoning for pedal assist looks sound and your comment about receiving flak from the "die-hards" who commute with a car is interesting. Again it touches the acceptance issues. I really like how you pointed out that your bike also seconds as a utility vehicle.

Originally Posted by nashvillwill
I think squirt dad hit it on the head.....It has to be EASY to really catch on with the masses.

Let's be honest, you and I love working on our own bikes and learning the mechanics of it, but 87% (i just made that percentage up) of Americans don't even know how to drive a manual transmission car. The layman doesn't want to know how to use a derailleur and doesn't care how it works. "Does it go? Ok, then go".

I can see an increase in people using pedal assist IF IT'S MECHANICALLY EASY.

Just my two cents.
I totally agree with out on the EASY part, and I hope that I can arrive at a solution that will work.

Thanks again all! Keep em' coming.
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