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  1. #1
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    The Importance of Video Recording Human Apathy on Your Cycling Commute

    I have personally either been involved in, or witnessed, far too many near misses, or close shaves caused by drivers in motor vehicles. It would appear that most of them feel as though, since they have the larger and more massive vehicle, that they also have the right to deny your right as a cyclist, to equal access to the road. As commuting cyclists, we are constantly cut off, right hooked, and doored, during our commutes.

    Furthermore, the culprits comitting such offenses are usually indignant, unrepentent, and completely apathetic concerning their physical encroachments and assaults. Some will actually curse us, get out of their vehicles to confront us, and we are sometimes even physically attacked.

    Whenever we are threatened or physically attacked, these are considered as criminal acts and the offending culprits should be reported to the authorities, immediately. It would be fortuitous to have the evidence in hand when attempting to aid in the prosecution of such morons when in court. It would also be wise, if you could record all of the related actionable offenses, committed by the offending driver. This could possibly include any driving offenses, as well as, any civil infractions committed against you.

    This type of recording can all be done while cycling via your video camera. It would be quite convenient to actually videotape the driver's license plate number. Especially any taxicab's or bus driver's number. It would be nice to have the video recording of the guy who first, cuts you off, and then threatens you, afterwards.

    Well that's what the guy does in this youtube video. Please observe very carefully and take note.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSiBVTtrS1w&feature=fvwrel

    Please! Do Not Hesitate To Aid In The Prosecution of These Culprits!

    Info concerning the purchase of a video camera with REI:
    www.rei.com/search?query=video+camera
    Last edited by SlimRider; 06-06-12 at 10:40 PM.

  2. #2
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Wasn't someone selling/making helmet LCD cameras on BF? I'd actually like to record some of the more interesting moments of my commute. For example, on my usual route home through the city, I ended up at a private street party (where the residents in a few houses get a permit, close a section of the street and sell beer/food.) It was such a nice surprise on a warm day.

    After watching the video, that guy will be lucky to avoid injury for another few years. There's something to be said for fighting for your legal rights, but when you put yourself in harm's way intentionally and record it, you're just asking for trouble.
    Last edited by acidfast7; 06-06-12 at 05:22 AM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member kjmillig's Avatar
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    I should have my new camera on Friday. Here in Taiwan if you catch someone breaking the law on camera and can get their license number, you can take the video to the police station and possibly get a reward, something like US$10-$15. I'll have a mount on my motorcycle helmet and bike helmet.
    "Pain is weakness leaving the body"......yea, right!

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    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjmillig View Post
    I should have my new camera on Friday. Here in Taiwan if you catch someone breaking the law on camera and can get their license number, you can take the video to the police station and possibly get a reward, something like US$10-$15. I'll have a mount on my motorcycle helmet and bike helmet.
    Any info about the camera, a URL perhaps?
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  5. #5
    Senior Member alan s's Avatar
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    The state prosecutes, not the individual. I have no need or desire to capture video.

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    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Videos are a good way to get info on an aggressive/dangerous driving motorist, plus it's a great way to stop a lot of "I said, they said". I had a deliberate close pass just last week, but I was in a lazy/forgiving mood, and just logged the motorist into my "rogues' gallery" of videos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    Wasn't someone selling/making helmet LCD cameras on BF? I'd actually like to record some of the more interesting moments of my commute. For example, on my usual route home through the city, I ended up at a private street party (where the residents in a few houses get a permit, close a section of the street and sell beer/food.) It was such a nice surprise on a warm day.

    After watching the video, that guy will be lucky to avoid injury for another few years. There's something to be said for fighting for your legal rights, but when you put yourself in harm's way intentionally and record it, you're just asking for trouble.
    It looks to me, that the cycling commuter is just moving right along with traffic, until he is impeded upon by some selfish motorist. An apathetic motorist who is, unwilling to yield the right of way, abide by traffic laws, oblivious to the rights of the cyclist, and perfectly willing to place the cyclist in harms way, due to the overwhelming self-importance, felt by the motorist.

    The cyclist isn't looking to get injured or killed. He's just recording the life of an urban commuter and how plainly ignorant some motorists are when they drive and dangerously jeopardize our safety as commuting cyclists. Just over twenty states now have the three foot rule. The only way that we're going to provide any teeth to that law, is going to be through rigorous pursuit in the prosecution of these irresponsible motorist. Traffic cops are not going to be standing on every street corner, in order to execute arrests and issue citations. We must provide the courts with the required evidence for the protection of our rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan s View Post
    The state prosecutes, not the individual. I have no need or desire to capture video.


    Touche, Alan!

    That's been corrected...

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Videos are a good way to get info on an aggressive/dangerous driving motorist, plus it's a great way to stop a lot of "I said, they said". I had a deliberate close pass just last week, but I was in a lazy/forgiving mood, and just logged the motorist into my "rogues' gallery" of videos.

    Yes indeed, Dynodonn! You see the picture quite clearly! However, we must always remain vigilant in our pursuit for justice. Otherwise, our rights will continue to be trampled and we will continue to be ignored, threatened, and physically assaulted. Our rights gained, will be diluted and eroded.

  10. #10
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    It looks to me, that the cycling commuter is just moving right along with traffic, until he is impeded upon by some selfish motorist. An apathetic motorist who is, unwilling to yield the right of way, abide by traffic laws, oblivious to the rights of the cyclist, and perfectly willing to place the cyclist in harms way, due to the overwhelming self-importance, felt by the motorist.

    The cyclist isn't looking to get injured or killed. He's just recording the life of an urban commuter and how plainly ignorant some motorists are when they drive and dangerously jeopardize our safety as commuting cyclists. Just over twenty states now have the three foot rule. The only way that we're going to provide any teeth to that law, is going to be through rigorous pursuit in the prosecution of these irresponsible motorist. Traffic cops are not going to be standing on every street corner, in order to execute arrests and issue citations. We must provide the courts with the required evidence for the protection of our rights.
    LOL

    The motorists that are impeding him, probably impede other motorists ... therefore, the logical comparison would be to compared his number of dangerous situations with that of another motorist and to observe whether or not a significant difference exists between those two sets of data.

    In addition, I think he's making it WORSE for other cyclists. If he wanted to document the situation, he could easily document it without confronting the driver. In fact, after confrontation, the confronted driver is MORE likely to harass a cyclist at the next given opportunity. No one appeared scared/interested/concerned in the slightest by his antics.

    The cyclist is obviously looking for verbal conflict, because he initiates the verbal conflict. If he was concerned just with taking note of the infraction, he wouldn't confront the motorist at all, he would just submit the documentation to the motor vehicle office.

    Now that part of the discussion is over, he has every RIGHT to confront the motorist, but he's putting himself in harm's way by doing so and putting the next cyclist in the confronted driver's path in slightly more danger. Personally, I think the confrontation is hilarious, both because of the ridiculous antics of the cyclist and that the willingness of motorists to engage in such exchanges, and because of the ridiculousness that people think these confrontations are somehow "protecting cyclists rights."
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  11. #11
    Senior Member tjspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Videos are a good way to get info on an aggressive/dangerous driving motorist, plus it's a great way to stop a lot of "I said, they said". I had a deliberate close pass just last week, but I was in a lazy/forgiving mood, and just logged the motorist into my "rogues' gallery" of videos.
    I could see the value if I had a bad encounter on a regular basis with a particular driver. Or if there was a certain part of my route which due to bad design had numerous near misses.

    Day to day though, it's just not worth it to me. I'm sure that on a weekly basis a driver or two will pass by me too close. But I've forgotten about it by the time I get to where I'm going. I think I'm happier that way.

    What I don't want to do is "ride angry". For a couple of months a cycling bridge that passes over a busy multi-lane street was shutdown. This meant that you often had 20 or 30 cyclists crossing this street at a nearby intersection where normally you'd only see one or two. One morning a car had stopped part way into the crosswalk instead of behind the line like they should have. One of the cyclists saw fit to slap the hood of this car as he rode by. And I'm thinking: "Was that really necessary?". The driver F'cked up. So what. Most of us have. There was still plenty of room.
    If you're not riding with a psychedelic gecko on your shirt, you ARE having a substandard experience.

  12. #12
    Bike addict, dreamer AdamDZ's Avatar
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    In NYC there are around 200 vehicular collision per day. Less than 10 are actually investigated by the NYPD. A woman (pedestrian) was killed last year by speeding drunk driver with no license. The NYPD failed to investigate the scene for 3 days (I guess they were too ******** busy harassing cyclists, people sitting on subway station steps and giving parking tickets). By that time the driver was sober and all evidence was gone. He walked away with small penalty for unlicensed driving, but he should be in jail for life for murder. And you expect NYPD to GIVE A **** about a cyclist complaining about reckless driver??? They'll literally laugh at you.
    Last edited by CbadRider; 06-06-12 at 09:32 AM. Reason: corrected spelling

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    Senior Member tjspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
    In NYC there are around 200 vehicular collision per day. Less than 10 are actually investigated by the NYPD. A woman (pedestrian) was killed last year by speeding drunk driver with no license. The NYPD failed to investigate the scene for 3 days (I guess they were too ******** busy harassing cyclists, people sitting on subway station steps and giving parking tickets). By that time the driver was sober and all evidence was gone. He walked away with small penalty for unlicensed driving, but he should be in jail for life for murder. And you expect NYPD to GIVE A **** about a cyclist complaining about reckless driver??? They'll literally laugh at you.
    That was my other question. So you've got something on video. What are you going to do with it?
    Last edited by CbadRider; 06-06-12 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Edited quoted post
    If you're not riding with a psychedelic gecko on your shirt, you ARE having a substandard experience.

  14. #14
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
    That was my other question. So you've got something on video. What are you going to do with it?
    I think it would be "interesting" for two reasons only:

    1. You could capture interesting/funny moments (the BF member that hit a deer on their bike)
    2. You could capture a crime being committed by someone toward a third party (may catch a hit-n-run on camera)

    But, as far as policing motorists, it a relatively worthless idea. I wouldn't even consider it unless the activation energy was extremely low.
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  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=acidfast7;14320568]

    LOL
    There' s absolutely nothing funny about attempting to defend a commuter's right to equal access to the road.

    The motorists that are impeding him, probably impede other motorists ... therefore, the logical comparison would be to compared his number of dangerous situations with that of another motorist and to observe whether or not a significant difference exists between those two sets of data.
    Now that is simply a ludicrous derivation. It doesn't matter if the culprits are singling us as commuters out or not! The point is that we, as commuting cyclists are being disenfranchised our rights to have equal access to the road. This has been going on for far too long. We who have no mass and have no bumpers to protect us, are an easy target, a target that has far too long been ignored. Now that many of us have the three foot law, we need to get behind it, and have it enforced. What we don't need, is some kinda study in order to confirm that our safety is unnecessarily being jeopardized. I would think that would be quite obvious by now and most certainly NOT worthy of any futile study of data for some kinda ridiculous comparison. If you've commuted within any urban area or on any major thoroughfare, you should already know this by now.

    In addition, I think he's making it WORSE for other cyclists. If he wanted to document the situation, he could easily document it without confronting the driver. In fact, after confrontation, the confronted driver is MORE likely to harass a cyclist at the next given opportunity. No one appeared scared/interested/concerned in the slightest by his antics.
    This guy is simply riding his bicycle while on his commute. He's not looking to get injured. He's not trying to incite anyone. He's just standing his own ground as a cyclist, attempting to claim his very own right to the road. His video camera clearly records him being corraled towards the curb on numerous occasions. He's also continuously cut off. This is a stark reflection of what we experience in major urban areas and it needs to be exposed, reviewed, and discussed.

    The cyclist is obviously looking for verbal conflict, because he initiates the verbal conflict. If he was concerned just with taking note of the infraction, he wouldn't confront the motorist at all, he would just submit the documentation to the motor vehicle office.
    How many people get cut off when driving and only feel the urge to just take some kinda notes. Being cut off evokes a human response that's usually not too pleasant. I'm sorry, but that's just human nature. You should be mature enough to know that by now.

    Now that part of the discussion is over, he has every RIGHT to confront the motorist, but he's putting himself in harm's way by doing so and putting the next cyclist in the confronted driver's path in slightly more danger. Personally, I think the confrontation is hilarious, both because of the ridiculous antics of the cyclist and that the willingness of motorists to engage in such exchanges, and because of the ridiculousness that people think these confrontations are somehow "protecting cyclists rights."
    He doesn't have to worry about placing the next cyclist in danger. The ignorant and selfish motorist will do that on his own. Why? Because, for some reason, many human beings feel as though cyclists don't belong on the road. They feel as though we should be on the side walk or in a school yard, or something. Subconsciously they feel as though we don't belong and their actions prove the way that they feel time and time again. We don't need any freaking study. We should all, already know!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
    That was my other question. So you've got something on video. What are you going to do with it?
    Well for one thing, if you should ever get hit and there are no witnesses, there's a chance that the culprits license plate could have been recorded. In the event that you expire, the culprit can then be pursued for criminal prosecution.

    In the event that you survive, you cannot only pursue the culprit for criminal prosecution, but you can also file a civil suit against him, because you now have solid evidence to bolster your claims.

  17. #17
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimRider View Post
    chop
    To be honest, I'd have a total of 0 problems in Denmark, Germany and Sweden. In fact, I have more problems with other cyclists than I do motorists. Feel free to shout all you want at motorists. I'll just shake my head and tell the motorists that we're all not like you.

    One interesting use I see for the rear view camera (demoed in the youtube vid) is that it MIGHT have captured the plate number of the car that recently hit the BF cyclist (such that the police could have watched it and investigated the driver immediately for hit-n-run, presumably while still intoxicated.) That would get the driver off the road permanently, which is what you're really after (enforcement of the law.) Shouting at a motorist is useless (unless it makes you feel better.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
    In NYC there are around 200 vehicular collision per day. Less than 10 are actually investigated by the NYPD. A woman (pedestrian) was killed last year by speeding drunk driver with no license. The NYPD failed to investigate the scene for 3 days (I guess they were too ******** busy harassing cyclists, people sitting on subway station steps and giving parking tickets). By that time the driver was sober and all evidence was gone. He walked away with small penalty for unlicensed driving, but he should be in jail for life for murder. And you expect NYPD to GIVE A **** about a cyclist complaining about reckless driver??? They'll literally laugh at you.
    I know that New York may seem hopeless at the moment. However, we must not waver in our pursuit for justice. Just record flagrant traffic infractions against us and save them for the impending prosections.

    It would appear to me, that the major problem with the NYC police department is not only corruption and apathy, but it's also donuts!
    Last edited by CbadRider; 06-06-12 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Edited quoted post

  19. #19
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
    That was my other question. So you've got something on video. What are you going to do with it?
    You can always file a complaint with the police. Here in California, a motorist was convicted of cutting in front of cyclists and slamming on his brakes so they crashed into him. One thing that helped get him convicted were the several earlier complaints filed against him by other cyclists he had done the same thing to, but they didn't get injured. The prosecutor was able to show a pattern of reckess behavior, instead of the one-time "oops I made a mistake" that the defense was going for.
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    "HEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOIN'?"

    I just love that part. I think I am gonna yell at people like that from now on. Just gotta perfect the accent.
    Tailwinds make me feel like Superman and headwinds make me feel like Lois Lane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
    You can always file a complaint with the police. Here in California, a motorist was convicted of cutting in front of cyclists and slamming on his brakes so they crashed into him. One thing that helped get him convicted were the several earlier complaints filed against him by other cyclists he had done the same thing to, but they didn't get injured. The prosecutor was able to show a pattern of reckess behavior, instead of the one-time "oops I made a mistake" that the defense was going for.
    Now that is true. I think he got some decent jail time if I remember right. I hurt one rider really bad if I remember right.
    Tailwinds make me feel like Superman and headwinds make me feel like Lois Lane.

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    Senior Member tjspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CbadRider View Post
    You can always file a complaint with the police. Here in California, a motorist was convicted of cutting in front of cyclists and slamming on his brakes so they crashed into him. One thing that helped get him convicted were the several earlier complaints filed against him by other cyclists he had done the same thing to, but they didn't get injured. The prosecutor was able to show a pattern of reckess behavior, instead of the one-time "oops I made a mistake" that the defense was going for.
    I might make sense for some people I guess. In my case, after almost 10 years of commuting by bike, I've only had one motorist that was deliberately hostile towards me (beyond just words) as opposed to just being negligent. Not worth dealing with the hassles of a camera in my opinion. Even if were to file a complaint, I doubt they would do anything with a video unless there was an actual collision with injuries/damages.

    I've had one collision with a motorist. They hooked me. My bike was fine. I was fine. They had a dent in their door. Driver was extremely apologetic. I wouldn't have done anything with the video if I had taken some. On the other hand, I could see that if I were hurt and the driver took off, having video would be valuable.
    Last edited by tjspiel; 06-06-12 at 10:03 AM.
    If you're not riding with a psychedelic gecko on your shirt, you ARE having a substandard experience.

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    I have toyed with the idea of a camera. I have a GoPro and the helmet mount and all. I would like it for situations stated above to have a 3rd party witness of sorts. My biggest concern is for my wife to see ANY of the vid. She would pooh on the first car passing me a little too close and my bike would end up on CL or in the FS section of BF. lol
    Tailwinds make me feel like Superman and headwinds make me feel like Lois Lane.

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    Slim: You using a video cam and if so, what type?

    Anyone else using one and if so, what type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chefisaac View Post
    Anyone else using one and if so, what type?
    GoPro Hero II
    Tailwinds make me feel like Superman and headwinds make me feel like Lois Lane.

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