rschreck

When I look at complete Surly bikes, it seems like I am paying a lot of money for mediocre parts and a good frame. An example could be the Surly LHT vs the Trek 520 vs the Salsa Fargo 3. In comparison, the Fargo 3 and Trek 520 come with better parts. I understand you are getting a great frame with the LHT, but it seems to me that the 520 or F3 would last longer before I have to replace parts.

Opinions?

fietsbob

Test ride stuff at your LBS, the Local Here,
can get QBP/Salsa/ Surly, on special order, They come COD.

but other importer's brands run a 120 day Credit line
so their dealers can have bikes on the floor,
and pay off the debt thru sales before it's due.

no1mad 

They will charge what the market will bear. So long as people keep buying them, don't expect prices to be coming down anytime soon. Most of the completes are sold to people who want the frame, but either lack the resources to finish the build. So those people settle for a frame that is worthy of upgrading over time.

And if you think that Salsa is a better value... QBP will make money either way, since they own both Surly and Salsa (and Civia, and...)

rschreck

Wait...your shop will order a bike from QBP and get you that price instead of retail?

bikemig 

I'm thinking of buying a Surly LHT. I test rode the bike extensively at my LBS and really liked the ride. Plus I want a touring bike with 26 inch wheels. I'm not sure I understand why you think the parts won't last; the bike is pretty conservative and the parts, I think, are well chosen to be functional and durable. The Surly comes in a lot of different sizes which is a really good thing when fitting the bike. The Trek 520 costs $250 more, seems to have similar quality parts, and comes in only a handful of sizes. The Salsa Fargo 3 looks cool but it is designed for a somewhat different use as an offroad adventure bike (not that it would not be a worthy road touring bike). It costs $125 more. I don't think the parts that come stock on the Surly are "mediocre" and I really like the different sizes that are available. That is a big (and increasingly rare) deal.

no1mad 

I think he meant that the shop will special order a bike from QBP, but pay on delivery, which is generally at ro real close to M.S.R.P.. In other words, you experience the BD style of purchasing- paying for it without doing a test ride first. If you decide it's not for you, then you're stuck either flipping it at a loss on CL or paying the return freight charges, assuming you can get a RMA in the first place...

RoadTire 

Thanks for posting this - I have the same question. Seems to be a strong opinion a bike has to have at least Tiagra or 105 quality components or all kinds of bad juju will be waiting for the hapless rider...like dragging a boat anchor, parts wearing or breaking at an exponential rate, poor shifting... I really don't get it. Seriously, I do not understand.

And as no1mad said, "Most of the completes are sold to people who want the frame...So those people settle for a frame that is worthy of upgrading over time."

beebe

The OP is looking at mountain components, except for the Sora FD on the Surly. Yeah, Sora is lame, but I can't see it being a big issue on the front, and FD's are pretty cheap to replace if you run into issues. If you are concerned about price, there's not really anything wrong with Deore, and the LX on the Surly will probably outlast the Deore on the Fargo. I personally like the components on the Surly and the Fargo over the 520, and the drivetrain on the Surly seems a little sturdier than the Fargo. I can't speak to the wheelset, as I don't have experience with them, but all of the Alex rims I've used in the past were tanks. Is Surly worth the price? I personally love my Surly; however, I can't speak to the value of new bikes as I almost always get some kind of deal on mine.

ClemY

If you have an issue with the components which come with a particular bike, buy the frame by itself and build it up yourself. I got a Salsa Vaya and put it together with parts I acquired over the years from various sources like ebay. That way I didn't have to swap out any components I didn't, for whatever reason, like.

Myosmith

My only complaint with Surly is that they use bar end shifters to keep the cost down. I don't have anything against bar end, but if you prefer brifters it is a fairly expensive upgrade that is standard on many competing bikes. That said, I think the Surley framesets are top notch.

waynesworld

Some people do feel that way, but the big difference is in how Sora works vs. Tiagra and above. It operates completely differently. Sure it's a little heavier, and maybe not as smooth, but if you are ok with how it works, it's alright. I've tried it. It wasn't bad, and I could probably get used to it, but I prefer the other ones, and I don't understand why it is different.

Does that help you to understand?

waynesworld

Also, I have a Kona Jake. I've never ridden a Surly of any kind, so I don't know what they are like. I REALLY want to try a Salsa Vaya, but I'm afraid I'd buy it if I did. Considering my lack of miles so far this year, that seems like a bad idea.

I do like my Jake a lot. It may get a Nashbar carbon fiber fork some day, but that's about all it needs.

bikemig 

No doubt bar ends keep the cost down compared to using brifters but I'll take 9 spd bar ends over brifters on a touring bike since there is a friction mode and they won't get wiped out in a fall as easily as the brifters will. I know people use brifters for touring and swear by them but for my money, I'll pick the bar ends.

amckimmey

They don't choose to use bar-end shifter to keep the cost down. To QBP/Surly, it's only a small difference for a cheap set of brifters. They uses bar-end shifters, because its a touring bike, and that is the traditionally preferred style of shifters do to there reliability and function.


To the main topic,

I have a Surly LHT my self and will say it is totally worth it. I just looked up the Trek's build, they share a lot of the same parts, if not the same level of parts. So you would pay more for nothing better, if anything the Trek 520 is lacking some nice details the surly has.

(These are details not to die for features)
Pump peg
spoke holder
eyelits on the fork crown(only on the this years forks, it's for a different rack mounting option)
26in wheels on all sizes(this is one of the biggest reasons I like it.)
Choose of 700c wheels on 56-64cm frames.

I don't care for the Fargo, it's not really a comparable bike I think. It's a 29er off-road adventure bike with disc brakes. I better one to think about or compare would be the Surly Orger if you want a 29er touring bike that takes Canti or Disc, or URL="https://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll"]Troll[/URL] if you want a 26" canti or disc bike.

Don't for get about the Disc Trucker.

bragi

I bought a LHT in 2008, and I'm still riding it every day, about 80-100 mi/week, sometimes quite a bit more when I'm touring. It is without a doubt the highest quality bike I've ever owned. It's a bicycle version of a Volvo: not flashy, certainly not high performance, but very trustworthy and durable. It came with a Tiagra FD, XT hubs, and a Deore XT RD. These weren't absolute top of the line components, but they were respectable, and they've held up incredibly well. The derailleurs still function quite well to this day, and, several chains later, I've only recently, after four years, replaced the chain ring and cassette. The original rims didn't last long, but given the wet, hilly environment in which I ride, rims are pretty much a disposable commodity anyway. The saddle that came with the bike was appalling, but that's probably true for any bike you get.

In short, yes, I think Surly is worth the money, if you want high-quality steel frames with decent components.

martianone

lht vs. 520 debate goes on - both have solid reputations with their stock components.
imho - get the bike that fits or feels better to the rider - then ride it & replace the components
as they wear out. i was fairly fixated on getting a lht. then after riding both, the 520 felt more responsive and
spoke to me in a way the lht didn't. a few thousand km on my 520, have only replaced the chain, plus a couple tune ups - wheels still true and smooth.

rschreck

My main concern isn't the drivetrain, as I have a 105 front and real just waiting to be put on a bike. It's the seat post, stem, bars, and ok, as far as drivetrain, the cranks. I've never heard of Andel cranks and it seems as if not many others have because I couldn't find a single review on the particular crankset Surly puts on the LHT. I'm also not a fan of Tektro brakes.

As for the bar end shifters, the 520 has Dura Ace and we all know that DA is really good stuff.

I'm asking about a complete bike because I don't want to build a bike part by part for my commuter/touring bike. I've already done that with my regular mountain bike.

I might just end up buying a Troll. It seems like it is spec'ed with decent parts overall.

Mithrandir

So I went with an LHT, but opted for a 100% custom part list. 105 shifters, deore triple and 11-34 cassette, FSA handlebars, custom wheels, etc. Cost me a bit more than the stock LHT but the LBS built it up amazingly well, and I love it to death.


So if you're ok with paying a bit more, custom parts is what I recommend.

bragi

105? Dura Ace? Do you actually contemplate using these on a heavy, rather slow steel touring bike frame? Good God, man, have you gone totally mad? What's next, the total absence of a B-17 saddle?!

Honestly, though, if you're really that interested in using high-performance, road-oriented components, I'm guessing you want to go fast; maybe you should be looking at something other than the 520, LHT, etc.

beebe

I don't have any of the components you've listed, but I also have never heard any complaints about those components from LHT owners, either. Good luck on your decision.

EGUNWT

Trek 520 comes in sizes up to 60cm.
Salsa doesn't make any bikes at all bigger than 60cm.
Surly LHT comes in sizes up to 64cm.
Surly Ogre (29er expedition bike) comes in sizes up to 24" (the MTB sizing equivalent of 64cm). I mention that because it's more of a competitor to the Fargo than the LHT is.

The Salsa road touring bike is the Vaya, not the Fargo.

I'm 6'5". There's really not a lot of options out there for bikes that actually fit me without going the Waterford/Rivendell route. If I want to pay more for a frame than a complete bike, that's fine, otherwise Surly's really it if you're over 6'2" and want a bike that fits.

My LHT is old enough that they only came in 62. The parts on it are "good enough". The only "must do" upgrades I found were to higher end brakes (The Oryx brakes are...squealy. there's not enough metal in 'em to keep them stable) and the seatpost (which was...bad. Very bad. Didn't hold the seat, which seems to be a bit of a "must do" for a seat post).

The wheels are...incredible. Hell-for-stout. The gearing is spot-on. Bar end shifters aren't a cost cutting measure, they're a touring thing. And those bar-end shifters are *ultegra* bar end shifters. Want to do apples-to-apples, get some ultegra STI shifters. They'll probably cost more than an LHT by themselves .

I'm not sure why you think Surly bikes are overpriced. Salsa frame-only prices are generally around $150 to $200 more than Surly. Their complete-bike prices are generally $200-$400 more (comparing Vaya to LHT) or $500 (LHT to Fargo). And all their frames are too small. The Trek 520 is carrying roughly the same parts levels (they use road components instead of MTB ones) and costs about $400 more.

I mean, if you do a component breakdown, you're going to find slightly better parts on the Salsa, but you're gonna pay more for it. And you'll likely be able to upgrade on your priority list easier if you have more money. I don't really care what my back derailer says it is, I just need it to shift. The gearing is such that it makes a ton of sense to use an MTB derailer, because the long-cage options are more available. It's a touring bike, saving grams isn't the goal here, it's reliability, and honestly once you get above the department-store level bikes, the only things that change as you go up the scale are weight and how fragile the parts are.

amckimmey

About Andel Crank, you won't find any information about it because it's a crank that is only put on the Surlys. You actually can't buy it or its chainrings aftermarket. But it's not a bad crank. It's a standard BCD 110/74. Lots of companies have parts like that. The stem, seatpost, and saddle are the same. But why worry, they work. The reason they choose to do this is the 3 most likely things to change first are the saddle, seatpost and stem. So why should they put money into those. That's why they don't come with pedals.


I think you're both a little confused, Shimano's 9speed bar-end shifter are only Dura Ace and their 8speed is Ultegra. The quality is no different between the 2. It's a bar end shifter that hasn't changed in 10+years, and has no performance value. I do agree, I don't understand why you would put 105 FD and RD. They are great part, great quality and strong. But they are rugged in the same way Deore, LX, or XT are.

alan s 

Most Surly complete bikes only come with a Surly frame, and the rest of the bike is comprised of non-Surly branded components. Buy a complete bike if you like the parts list Surly has provided. Probably more economical to buy a complete if you don't already have a large parts bin. If you want a custom build, it's likely you'll pay the same or more, but then you get what you want.

fietsbob

Only if you work there.. Others get a bike at retail.. fully assembled .

QBP only has a 3year Warrantee on frames, for material and welding flaws.

Trek on their frames , lifetime of original owner ..
Both LHT and 520 are TW contract Mfg.

contract details and such are different.

HardyWeinberg

I thought the Surly completes did come w/ tiagra and XT?? The square-taper BB and is another policy decision that just doesn't work w/ Shimano or SRAM cranksets.