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Thread: Traffic ticket

  1. #1
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    Traffic ticket

    One of my colleagues got a traffic ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign when on his bicycle. He is wondering if this will affect his car insurance premiums - does anyone have any idea?
    Edited to add: this was in San Mateo, California
    Last edited by treadtread; 07-11-12 at 04:21 PM. Reason: ..

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    Insurance companies aren't automatically notified of violations. I don't know what industry practices are for checking records of customers. Probably varies by company.
    Also, don't know if they could or would differentiate between bike and motor vehicle violations.
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    The link above by ckaspar is correct that under California law moving violations while bicycling are not supposed to count for insurance purposes and license points assessment. But mistakes are sometimes made so one should check that the ticket makes it clear that the violation occurred while bicycling. Laws and procedure vary in other states.

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    Thanks, I passed on the replies to my colleague.

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    Why would you show a drivers license for a bike ticket?
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    I don't know if he did that - but I imagine a policeman would check id - and a DL is the only id most of us carry.

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    Super Moderator no1mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
    Why would you show a drivers license for a bike ticket?
    For a bunch of people, a DL is the only State issued ID (or an ID with their picture on it) that they have.

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    Certified Bike Brat Burton's Avatar
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    In Montreal tickets are issued to cyclists and moving violations result in points being deducted from your drivers license. Insurance premiums here are based on accident history AND points against your drivers license. So in theory, moving violations on a bicycle can result in the loss of your drivers lisence and / or higher onsurance premiums.

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    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    I believe in the most states in the US you can be ticketed for traffic violations while on any moving vehicle including a bike, skateboard or lawnmower. I don't think that many, if any, states automatically report them to the insurance company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
    Why would you show a drivers license for a bike ticket?
    Because a traffic ticket is an arrest and without ID the officer is more likely to take you to jail instead of releasing you on your own recognizances. For most people our driver's license is the only photo ID we carry on a daily basis.

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    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
    Because a traffic ticket is an arrest and without ID the officer is more likely to take you to jail instead of releasing you on your own recognizances. For most people our driver's license is the only photo ID we carry on a daily basis.
    A traffic ticket isn't an arrest, however, in practically every state all adults are required by law to carry legal ID. In mos states you are breaking the law by not having ID, so when you get stopped by a Cop they can arrest you for not providing ID.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    A traffic ticket isn't an arrest, however, in practically every state all adults are required by law to carry legal ID. In mos states you are breaking the law by not having ID, so when you get stopped by a Cop they can arrest you for not providing ID.

    Can you provide any citations or legal links to show verification of what you stated? Not intending to argue, in fact I won't subscribe to this thread so I'll probably lose track of this thread, just requesting some fact verification. Point of reference, I've been a resident of Wisconsin, California, Oregon, and Washington and I don't believe I was required bu law to have identification on my person as long as I wasn't doing anything requiring a license nor proof of mu age. And as always, YMMV.
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    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treebound View Post
    Can you provide any citations or legal links to show verification of what you stated? Not intending to argue, in fact I won't subscribe to this thread so I'll probably lose track of this thread, just requesting some fact verification. Point of reference, I've been a resident of Wisconsin, California, Oregon, and Washington and I don't believe I was required bu law to have identification on my person as long as I wasn't doing anything requiring a license nor proof of mu age. And as always, YMMV.
    It varies by state, I don't have a link for you but I know that in most states if you are pulled over while operating a vehicle and don't have ID/License you can be arrested for it. Some states consider a bike a vehicle, so you are required to show ID if stopped by a cop. However, in some states they can't arrest you for not IDing yourself but it gives them probably cause to arrest you so either way it ends the same if the cop wants it that way. I know in MN tha and CA that's the way it works. So long as you are not doing anything wrong or breaking a law or operating a vehicle you don't have to carry ID.

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    If you don't provide ID to a police officer, how would he know that there weren't wants or warrants for your arrest? You can be detained until your identity is established. If they didn't do this then criminals could just make up a name and say they didn't have an ID. ??????

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    "If you don't provide ID to a police officer, how would he know that there weren't wants or warrants for your arrest? You can be detained until your identity is established. If they didn't do this then criminals could just make up a name and say they didn't have an ID. ?????? "

    I have never heard of such a thing, certainly not in a free country such as Canada. In Ontario, for bike traffic tickets you are only required to identify yourself... i.e. provide your name and address. Of course lying about it would be obstruction of justice or some such and probably a bad idea on balance. In general I thought the idea was that police needed some legal grounds to detain you.

    There are a couple of threads in the safety and advocacy forum dealing with insurance issues.

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    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamhenry View Post
    If you don't provide ID to a police officer, how would he know that there weren't wants or warrants for your arrest? You can be detained until your identity is established. If they didn't do this then criminals could just make up a name and say they didn't have an ID. ??????
    Well, in most states it's simply semantics, you can't be arrested for not providing ID or not IDing yourself but either gives them probably cause to arrest you on whatever grounds they stopped you for. So, if they pull you over for blowing through a red and you don't provide ID they can just arrest you on probably cause for pretty well whatever reason they want. You can be riding home from getting a gallon of milk and be booked on suspicion of burglary because you didn't carry ID. Now, most cops wouldn't go that far but it can happen, particularly if they were in the neighborhood because of suspicious activity call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asmac View Post
    I have never heard of such a thing, certainly not in Canada. In Ontario, for bike traffic tickets you are only required to identify yourself... i.e. provide your name and address. Of course lying about it would be obstruction of justice or some such and probably a bad idea on balance. There are a couple of threads in the safety and advocacy forum dealing with insurance issues.

    That is also how it works in the US.

    There is a difference between identifying oneself and the need to provide a physical ID card that seems to bring confusion.

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    I don't think anyone would be arrested for not having ID but they could be detained and there is quite a difference between being arrested and being detained.

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    The legality of whether or not to ID yourself to LEO aside, consider this:

    If you choose to leave your ID at home when you go out for a ride, and you get into a bad accident such that you are rendered unconscious, how is the first responders/medical staff supposed to be able to even begin contacting your family or S.O.? Even if you respond with just check the cell phone you probably carry for the ICE contact, assume worst case and that thing is inoperable and that info is lost/unaccessible.

    Carrying an ID just makes life so much easier.

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    Senior Member asmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrow View Post
    It varies by state, I don't have a link for you but I know that in most states if you are pulled over while operating a vehicle and don't have ID/License you can be arrested for it. Some states consider a bike a vehicle, so you are required to show ID if stopped by a cop. However, in some states they can't arrest you for not IDing yourself but it gives them probably cause to arrest you so either way it ends the same if the cop wants it that way. I know in MN tha and CA that's the way it works. So long as you are not doing anything wrong or breaking a law or operating a vehicle you don't have to carry ID.
    The difference is that under the Motor Vehicle Act (or whatever it's called in your area) you are required by law to have a license to operate a motor vehicle. You are not required by law to have a license to operate a bicycle even if it is considered a vehicle. Therefore there is no requirement to carry a license and no pretext to ask for paper identification as opposed to asking you to provide a name and address.

    Do you really believe that police only stop people who are "doing something wrong?"

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    (emphasis mine)

    Quote Originally Posted by asmac View Post
    "If you don't provide ID to a police officer, how would he know that there weren't wants or warrants for your arrest? You can be detained until your identity is established. If they didn't do this then criminals could just make up a name and say they didn't have an ID. ?????? "

    I have never heard of such a thing, certainly not in a free country such as Canada. In Ontario, for bike traffic tickets you are only required to identify yourself... i.e. provide your name and address. Of course lying about it would be obstruction of justice or some such and probably a bad idea on balance. In general I thought the idea was that police needed some legal grounds to detain you.

    There are a couple of threads in the safety and advocacy forum dealing with insurance issues.
    Well, there's the issue right there.

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    What if someone were riding with only a Road ID bracelet and no picture ID? I suppose an officer asking could just punch you up on the cruiser laptop and your picture would appear.
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    Pedal Pusher/Pundit mcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmac View Post
    The difference is that under the Motor Vehicle Act (or whatever it's called in your area) you are required by law to have a license to operate a motor vehicle. You are not required by law to have a license to operate a bicycle even if it is considered a vehicle. Therefore there is no requirement to carry a license and no pretext to ask for paper identification as opposed to asking you to provide a name and address.

    Do you really believe that police only stop people who are "doing something wrong?"
    Yes, they do stop people only whne they have a reason, for the most part. When was the last time you just had a cop just come up and chat with you?

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