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Old 07-12-12, 05:14 PM   #1
vtkarl
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The Atlantic - article about agressive bicyclists

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...de-bikes/2536/

I hope I've been appropriately kind to pedestrians. I try to give them space and the right of way even while running.
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Old 07-12-12, 06:28 PM   #2
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Along with bike licenses and stronger traffic enforcement, maybe they could also outlaw headphones and ear buds for walkers and runners.

It's easy to point fingers at others, but far too few look at their own actions with objective eyes.

I'll stop here before this gets bumped to that other section of the site.
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Old 07-12-12, 06:39 PM   #3
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So we have a gal living in Mexico City writing about cyclist in US cities, talking about a collision for which she does not even bother stating if the runner was even on the correct side of the path.

Pretty useless article.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:43 PM   #4
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So we have a gal living in Mexico City writing about cyclist in US cities, talking about a collision for which she does not even bother stating if the runner was even on the correct side of the path.

Pretty useless article.
Really? Kinda reminds me of a posting in these forums involving a head-on collision between two cyclists where the poster really downplayed the fact that he was riding illegally. And as per numerous posts in the forums here, the statements: "Cyclists flout the rules, say detractors. They ignore red lights and stop signs. They ride against traffic. They pedal on sidewalks where pedestrians aren’t expecting them." All sound pretty accurate to me, regardless of where the author to that article is writing from.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:59 PM   #5
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Clearly, the best solution is better pedestrian education (Ped Ed) and a requirement for all peds to wear helmets. Remedial walking courses.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:26 PM   #6
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Clearly, the best solution is better pedestrian education (Ped Ed) and a requirement for all peds to wear helmets. Remedial walking courses.
But cyclists can't have it both ways. We demand that motorists respect vulnerable road users whilst being complete tools around pedestrians ourselves. With increased size and speed comes increased responsibility. This goes for 18 wheelers on roadways and cyclists on MUPS.
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Old 07-12-12, 09:26 PM   #7
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Clearly, the best solution is better pedestrian education (Ped Ed) and a requirement for all peds to wear helmets. Remedial walking courses.
Agreed!
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Old 07-12-12, 11:34 PM   #8
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But cyclists can't have it both ways. We demand that motorists respect vulnerable road users whilst being complete tools around pedestrians ourselves. With increased size and speed comes increased responsibility. This goes for 18 wheelers on roadways and cyclists on MUPS.
Yes we can; you just need to acknowledge that cycling is superiour to both motor vehicles as well as walking and prioritize things as such.
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Old 07-13-12, 06:57 AM   #9
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Really? Kinda reminds me of a posting in these forums involving a head-on collision between two cyclists where the poster really downplayed the fact that he was riding illegally. And as per numerous posts in the forums here, the statements: "Cyclists flout the rules, say detractors. They ignore red lights and stop signs. They ride against traffic. They pedal on sidewalks where pedestrians aren’t expecting them." All sound pretty accurate to me, regardless of where the author to that article is writing from.
So you really think that motorist, cyclist and pedestrians in the US are as bad as those in Mexico City?
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Old 07-13-12, 07:22 AM   #10
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So you really think that motorist, cyclist and pedestrians in the US are as bad as those in Mexico City?
Absolutely. We aren't special over here, we are one of the worst countries for alternative transportation, especially cycling. A car-centric society breeds machismo, regardless of whether its a car, bike or motorcycle. Many other countries are better set up for drivers and cyclists to play nice, relieving the "need" for cyclists to enter pedestrian territory, ie the sidewalk.

I'd rather be a cyclist in Mexico City than New York City...
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Old 07-13-12, 07:27 AM   #11
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I must confess, I am always puzzled by the hostility to claims that cyclists sometimes behave carelessly. I ride every day and I see it, every day. I mean, yes, some drivers are ********, and some pedestrians are ********, but some cyclists are also ********. The guy who blasts through an area clearly marked "Slow, pedestrian crossing" at full speed and then shrieks at the kid in the crosswalk for being in his way; that guy is an *******.

I don't think the suggestion in the article of enforced safety classes is the answer. I do think there need to be more dedicated bike lanes, both on the street and on recreational trails, and better signage and law enforcement to keep those lanes bikes only. Because I think we can all agree: the real trouble makers are those damn rollerbladers.
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Old 07-13-12, 07:31 AM   #12
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Clearly, the best solution is better pedestrian education (Ped Ed) and a requirement for all peds to wear helmets. Remedial walking courses.
I've got just the course to offer, "Effective Walking." My tests and unique analysis of data show that "crashes" will be reduced by 80% for those exposed to my instructions. And anyone who casts doubt on my findings and course material is nothing but an incompetent dunderhead.
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Old 07-13-12, 07:41 AM   #13
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Clearly, the best solution is better pedestrian education (Ped Ed) and a requirement for all peds to wear helmets. Remedial walking courses.

I take it you're kidding, but remedial walking courses are necessary in some areas. On my commute this morning, I had a jaywalking women, look RIGHT at me, and step off the curb right in front of me, into the center of the lane I was traveling at 18-20mph in. Luckily, I was able to swing around her into another lane, because there was really no traffic.

It's only a matter of time into a jaywalker gets killed by a cyclist in Providence and it won't necessarily be the cyclists fault. For some reason, people don't realize getting hit by a bicycle is still going to hurt.
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Old 07-13-12, 07:49 AM   #14
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I had a similar situation 20 years ago, I was riding a local path and rounded a curve obstructed by bushes at 5 to 10 mph, and met a couple of peds walking towards me on the same side as I was on. The paved path surface was wet and slippery, I inadvertently grabbed too much front brake and down I went, fortunately without striking the peds.

I've since changed my commute route to the roadway, since peds are basically trained to walk against traffic and I ride with it, making the path much more unpredictable and slower than the roadway, plus the roadway has far better lines of sight.
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Old 07-13-12, 09:19 AM   #15
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The way I see it, this whole overblown story might have a happy ending when people realize that if there is a problem with cyclists running over and killing a handful of pedestrians, there is a full-blown crisis with motorists running over pedestrians.

I get jaywalkers stepping out in front of me all the time, sometimes when I'm going fast enough to hurt them. The example of a collision on a bike path just outlines the problems with peds on bike paths. They generally feel free to wander aimlessly while not paying attention to their surroundings.
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Old 07-13-12, 09:54 AM   #16
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I can't help but think that most of these accidents between cyclists, automobiles, and pedestrians are caused by stupid self-centered morons who don't have any extra capacity in their brains to think about other roadway users. I have been that guy before, I caused a crash with a car because of my idiotic behavior and I am lucky enough to have lived to learn from my mistake. It's the driver who can't handle the 5 second delay that he or she incurs when safely passing a cyclist, and the cyclist who can't be bothered by stopping for red lights, and the pedestrian who can't handle walking the extra 90 feet to a crosswalk.

We would all be better off if we could give one extra second of thought about other people before acting, but our society has de-evolved into a do-whatever-you-want-let-everybody-else-worry-about-themselves place and the actions of law enforcement only serves to exacerbate the situation.
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Old 07-13-12, 10:46 AM   #17
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I can't help but think that most of these accidents between cyclists, automobiles, and pedestrians are caused by stupid self-centered morons who don't have any extra capacity in their brains to think about other roadway users. I have been that guy before, I caused a crash with a car because of my idiotic behavior and I am lucky enough to have lived to learn from my mistake. It's the driver who can't handle the 5 second delay that he or she incurs when safely passing a cyclist, and the cyclist who can't be bothered by stopping for red lights, and the pedestrian who can't handle walking the extra 90 feet to a crosswalk.

We would all be better off if we could give one extra second of thought about other people before acting, but our society has de-evolved into a do-whatever-you-want-let-everybody-else-worry-about-themselves place and the actions of law enforcement only serves to exacerbate the situation.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. It's all about thinking less about your own needs and more about others that you may encounter on your way.

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Old 07-13-12, 10:50 AM   #18
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I've got just the course to offer, "Effective Walking." My tests and unique analysis of data show that "crashes" will be reduced by 80% for those exposed to my instructions. And anyone who casts doubt on my findings and course material is nothing but an incompetent dunderhead.
At this point I would like to propose a new "Vehicular Walking (VW)" thread (sticky perhaps ... mod's???) be started over in A&S.
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Old 07-13-12, 11:10 AM   #19
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So how many people have been killed by cyclists? How does that rate with other accidents out there? Is this really something everyone should be up in arms about. It seems to me that articles like this are more of a proxy for expressing their irritation at cyclists on the roads and an attempt to upset the public about it.
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Old 07-13-12, 11:41 AM   #20
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I'm doing my part by riding as much as possible, being courteous to peds on the MUP and setting an example by following traffic laws on the streets. I just wish everyone did.
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Old 07-13-12, 12:03 PM   #21
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wow.. must stop replying to asshats in the comments... damn youz!
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Old 07-13-12, 12:13 PM   #22
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So how many people have been killed by cyclists? How does that rate with other accidents out there? Is this really something everyone should be up in arms about. It seems to me that articles like this are more of a proxy for expressing their irritation at cyclists on the roads and an attempt to upset the public about it.
I would be really surprised if there are an average of 10 pedestrians killed a year for the entire country. It's just a "man bites dog" kind of story and probably has an unspoken bias that bikes don't belong on the road to it as well. Granted, every such fatality is something to be lamented and avoided at all costs, but as I stated above, the real crisis is motorist/pedestrian death rate which is really outrageous. There is an effort to make roads more pedestrian friendly, but in the end, most of the U.S. is pedestrian unfriendly. Even in areas where there is a lot of foot traffic.
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Old 07-13-12, 12:32 PM   #23
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Really? Kinda reminds me of a posting in these forums involving a head-on collision between two cyclists where the poster really downplayed the fact that he was riding illegally. And as per numerous posts in the forums here, the statements: "Cyclists flout the rules, say detractors. They ignore red lights and stop signs. They ride against traffic. They pedal on sidewalks where pedestrians aren’t expecting them." All sound pretty accurate to me, regardless of where the author to that article is writing from.
Sad to say, I agreed with the part of the article you quoted too. I have talked to numerous Salmon, and other "bad actors", and believe most are not bad. They're just ignorant. The safety of riding with traffic is counterintuitive to many of those who have not had the dynamics explained to them.
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Old 07-13-12, 01:13 PM   #24
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So we have a gal living in Mexico City writing about cyclist in US cities, talking about a collision for which she does not even bother stating if the runner was even on the correct side of the path.

Pretty useless article.
I think this kind of reflex (and so hostile!) dismissal of any critique of cycling is also pretty useless. The article states the path isn't divided at that spot. The cyclist rounding a blind turn at speed on a multi-use path is pretty obviously at fault, either in part, or whole.

Last edited by cooker; 07-13-12 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 07-13-12, 01:31 PM   #25
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So we have a gal living in Mexico City writing about cyclist in US cities, talking about a collision for which she does not even bother stating if the runner was even on the correct side of the path.

Pretty useless article.
Yes, but those facts wont matter to most who have already made up their mind on the subject.
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