Cantilevers worthless for commuting?
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8
Bikes: 1987 Miyata 615 GT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cantilevers worthless for commuting?
Hi All,
I recently bought a Miyata 615 GT with cantilever brakes on it. They are the original brakes with ancient pads. The braking performance is poor compared to my last bike that had v-brakes. My local shop is building me a wheelset and they encouraged me to ditch them for some relatively cheap v-brakes for more stopping power. I ride in all weather and stopping distance is very important because my bike is my main means of transportation. However, I like the idea of preserving the mechanical operation and appearance of the bike (v-brakes require adding brake stop, leave empty braze-ons).
Is it ridiculous to think I can get great braking from a new set of cantilevers?
For example the Tektro CR720... https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...e&sort=1&fid=2
What are your thoughts?
I recently bought a Miyata 615 GT with cantilever brakes on it. They are the original brakes with ancient pads. The braking performance is poor compared to my last bike that had v-brakes. My local shop is building me a wheelset and they encouraged me to ditch them for some relatively cheap v-brakes for more stopping power. I ride in all weather and stopping distance is very important because my bike is my main means of transportation. However, I like the idea of preserving the mechanical operation and appearance of the bike (v-brakes require adding brake stop, leave empty braze-ons).
Is it ridiculous to think I can get great braking from a new set of cantilevers?
For example the Tektro CR720... https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...e&sort=1&fid=2
What are your thoughts?
Last edited by veryhumid; 07-15-12 at 03:23 PM. Reason: Added blurry camera photos
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,277
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
That is ludicrous. Cantilever brakes are fine. I would have them adjusted and put new brake pads on. Once that is finished you can see if they are still inadequate and pick up the tektro.
#3
自転車整備士
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado USA
Posts: 898
Bikes: '86 Moots Mountaineer, '94 Salsa Ala Carte, '94 S-Works FSR, 1983 Trek 600 & 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
If you swap cantilevers for V-brakes you'll also have to change the brake levers to V-brake compatible ones.
IMHO I would change the pads out to something like Kool Stop Salmon colored cantilever pads... a lot of times
that will make a huge difference in braking efficiency. The OEM cantilevers on your 615 GT should provide more
than enough stopping power.
IMHO I would change the pads out to something like Kool Stop Salmon colored cantilever pads... a lot of times
that will make a huge difference in braking efficiency. The OEM cantilevers on your 615 GT should provide more
than enough stopping power.
#4
Senior Member
With nice new pads and when properly adjusted those cantilevers should be plenty good enough to chuck you over the handlebars wet or dry.
#5
Have bike, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,392
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times
in
158 Posts
If you swap cantilevers for V-brakes you'll also have to change the brake levers to V-brake compatible ones.
IMHO I would change the pads out to something like Kool Stop Salmon colored cantilever pads... a lot of times
that will make a huge difference in braking efficiency. The OEM cantilevers on your 615 GT should provide more
than enough stopping power.
IMHO I would change the pads out to something like Kool Stop Salmon colored cantilever pads... a lot of times
that will make a huge difference in braking efficiency. The OEM cantilevers on your 615 GT should provide more
than enough stopping power.
Use these: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=15110
Upgrade to these if needed: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=19516
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
#6
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 17,229
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times
in
174 Posts
You CAN get good performance from cantis - especially the older style, wide armed cantis. If they're set up well with good pads, they work very well with excellent modulation. Added bonus, they can fit fenders. They also don't have to be as tight on the rim as a v-brake. If you use v brakes, you'll need specific levers like these:
Unless you use a travel agent.
These are the best canti's I've used, but they're hard to find:
Unless you use a travel agent.
These are the best canti's I've used, but they're hard to find:
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8
Bikes: 1987 Miyata 615 GT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thank you for your responses everyone. I added some pictures to the first thread showing the Shimano brakes and levers on the bike. I feel much better requesting a pad replacement and adjustment now.
#8
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8
Bikes: 1987 Miyata 615 GT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
+1
Use these: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=15110
Upgrade to these if needed: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=19516
Use these: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=15110
Upgrade to these if needed: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=19516
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...04&category=36
#9
Banned
That brake was on my mid 80s SBI Expedition Touring bike,
they stopped a Loaded touring bike just fine.
Is a said 'a poor mechanic blames their tools'.
they stopped a Loaded touring bike just fine.
Is a said 'a poor mechanic blames their tools'.
#10
Have bike, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,392
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times
in
158 Posts
Those look good but I have a different style of pad, it doesn't have any threads on it. Maybe the Salmon version of these?
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...04&category=36
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...04&category=36
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 328
Bikes: Trek 9th District, CAAD 10, Crux
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Does poor equate to increased required stopping distance or are there other issues? I recently test rode a new Felt F35X with cantilevers, but I didn't care for the feel, especially the shuddering. However, I have no doubt that the the brakes could quickly stop the bike.
#12
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8
Bikes: 1987 Miyata 615 GT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Does poor equate to increased required stopping distance or are there other issues? I recently test rode a new Felt F35X with cantilevers, but I didn't care for the feel, especially the shuddering. However, I have no doubt that the the brakes could quickly stop the bike.
#13
Velocommuter Commando
Hi All,
I recently bought a Miyata 615 GT with cantilever brakes on it. They are the original brakes with ancient pads. The braking performance is poor compared to my last bike that had v-brakes. My local shop is building me a wheelset and they encouraged me to ditch them for some relatively cheap v-brakes for more stopping power. I ride in all weather and stopping distance is very important because my bike is my main means of transportation. However, I like the idea of preserving the mechanical operation and appearance of the bike (v-brakes require adding brake stop, leave empty braze-ons).
Is it ridiculous to think I can get great braking from a new set of cantilevers?
For example the Tektro CR720... https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...e&sort=1&fid=2
What are your thoughts?
I recently bought a Miyata 615 GT with cantilever brakes on it. They are the original brakes with ancient pads. The braking performance is poor compared to my last bike that had v-brakes. My local shop is building me a wheelset and they encouraged me to ditch them for some relatively cheap v-brakes for more stopping power. I ride in all weather and stopping distance is very important because my bike is my main means of transportation. However, I like the idea of preserving the mechanical operation and appearance of the bike (v-brakes require adding brake stop, leave empty braze-ons).
Is it ridiculous to think I can get great braking from a new set of cantilevers?
For example the Tektro CR720... https://www.tektro.com/_english/01_pr...e&sort=1&fid=2
What are your thoughts?
#14
自転車整備士
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Denver, Colorado USA
Posts: 898
Bikes: '86 Moots Mountaineer, '94 Salsa Ala Carte, '94 S-Works FSR, 1983 Trek 600 & 620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
OP,
The canti's you have on your 615 GT are early Shimano AT-50 canti's, the more basic version of the Deore XT's that fietsbob had on his Expedition.
Properly adjusted, with those A400 aero levers and Salmon pads you should be able to stop on a dime and make 8¢ change.
The canti's you have on your 615 GT are early Shimano AT-50 canti's, the more basic version of the Deore XT's that fietsbob had on his Expedition.
Properly adjusted, with those A400 aero levers and Salmon pads you should be able to stop on a dime and make 8¢ change.
#16
Tractorlegs
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 3,185
Bikes: Schwinn Meridian Single-Speed Tricycle
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times
in
42 Posts
Without reading the other responses, the cantilevers are fine. They're just trying to soak you for more $$$!
__________________
********************************
Trikeman
Trikeman
#17
ROM 6:23
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Coastal Maine
Posts: 1,713
Bikes: Specialized Tricross Comp, Lemond Tourmalet, Bridgestone MB-5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Um, no. My "modern" Tricross is spec'd with "ancient" cantis. And the bike stops just fine. Simpler the better my friend.
#18
Senior Member
Not really new information, but I agree with all of the above posts. Properly adjusted cantilever brakes with new and decent pads can and should stop you just as effectively as v-brakes. If you do go with v-brakes, new levers will be required due to the difference in mechnical advantage. Look up Sheldon Brown's article online about this if you want to know specifically why - but the short version is that your current levers are not compatible for safe stopping on v-brakes.
There are a few options (Tektro makes a popular set, as mentioned) but most drop bar levers are made to work with cantilever or traditional center/side pull brakes - you'll pay a premium for mixing things... I would be suspicious of a shop that tells you to replace the entire braking system instead of just re-greasing the moving parts and putting on new pads and cables.
There are a few options (Tektro makes a popular set, as mentioned) but most drop bar levers are made to work with cantilever or traditional center/side pull brakes - you'll pay a premium for mixing things... I would be suspicious of a shop that tells you to replace the entire braking system instead of just re-greasing the moving parts and putting on new pads and cables.
__________________
1980 Sekine RM-40 | 1990 Miyata 1000LT | 1980 Raleigh Sprite Mixte | 1979 Raleigh Grand Prix
1980 Sekine RM-40 | 1990 Miyata 1000LT | 1980 Raleigh Sprite Mixte | 1979 Raleigh Grand Prix
#19
nashcommguy
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: nashville, tn
Posts: 2,499
Bikes: Commuters: Fuji Delray road, Fuji Discovery mtb...Touring: Softride Traveler...Road: C-dale SR300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If you swap cantilevers for V-brakes you'll also have to change the brake levers to V-brake compatible ones.
IMHO I would change the pads out to something like Kool Stop Salmon colored cantilever pads... a lot of times
that will make a huge difference in braking efficiency. The OEM cantilevers on your 615 GT should provide more
than enough stopping power.
IMHO I would change the pads out to something like Kool Stop Salmon colored cantilever pads... a lot of times
that will make a huge difference in braking efficiency. The OEM cantilevers on your 615 GT should provide more
than enough stopping power.
My main commuter has cantis and I just put new pads on them about a month ago. Aztecs from Nashbar. They work great. It's a CX bike and the brakes do rs a little better to the flat-bar lever than to the hood levers, but either way cantis are fine.
#20
Insane Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 125
Bikes: Huffy Grand Prairie 15sp MTB (don't hate!), 1980 Schwinn World Tourist, 1976 Schwinn Traveler, 1974 Romic Custom (project bike!)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I commute with canti brakes every day. They work fine, even on lolheug hills.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago!
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Second everyone's thoughts above. I'd also consider using a different mechanic/LBS - biggest reason to switch to v-brakes is ease of installation, not added braking power. As mentioned above, it'll require new levers too - I like to have an LBS that will give me the cheapest options that keep me riding safely, not try to sell me on unnecessary "upgrades".
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 866
Bikes: LHT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
https://sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html see "Mechanical Advantage." I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, but you can try a more shallow link wire, from your picture it looks to be very long. New pads are still a good idea, but I would try to adjust that first to see what effect it has.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Central CT
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Wow.
I can't believe a bike "mechanic" would make that statement. I commute on cantilevers all the time, and I've ridden a ton of hard mountain biking miles on them too.
The key to your problem is your "ancient pads." They don't look like they were very good pads to begin with, and over the years the rubber has probably become very hard. As noted several times above, a simple pad switch should have you stopping fine.
I can't believe a bike "mechanic" would make that statement. I commute on cantilevers all the time, and I've ridden a ton of hard mountain biking miles on them too.
The key to your problem is your "ancient pads." They don't look like they were very good pads to begin with, and over the years the rubber has probably become very hard. As noted several times above, a simple pad switch should have you stopping fine.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 11,375
Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Good question. The brakes feel smooth but they don't "bite" the rim. Even with strong grip on the levers, the response is soft and the bike stops much more slowly than my old v-brake bike. I can squeeze as hard as I want but it just won't slow down very fast. Even at low speeds I doubt I could lock up the front wheel. With my last bike, I think this would have been possible, or at least plausible.
__________________
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
"I feel like my world was classier before I found cyclocross."
- Mandi M.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Posts: 9,085
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3351 Post(s)
Liked 5,400 Times
in
2,796 Posts
https://sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html see "Mechanical Advantage." I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, but you can try a more shallow link wire, from your picture it looks to be very long. New pads are still a good idea, but I would try to adjust that first to see what effect it has.
I was considering commenting on that.
I've never seen such a long straddle cable on a canti.
Also, that is a tall frame, with a long head tube, and a cable stop mounted up by the stem. That is a recipe for a front brake that shudders and grabs on steep descents. In my experience, it made my front brake unusable in descents of more than 9%.
Lennard Zinn explains it here: https://velonews.competitor.com/2010/...o-cross_101807
The solution is a cable stop mounted at the fork crown. Tektro and Specialized make them.
Last edited by Shimagnolo; 07-16-12 at 10:06 AM.