shepherdsflock

I really like the idea of an IGH like the Shimano 8 or 11 speed hubs, but have never rode a bike equipped with one. I see that the ratio range on the Alfine 11 is supposed to be pretty close to my current 3x8 24 speed derailleur setup. What I'm wondering is what are the gear steps like? I've seen the gain ratio charts, and I know that the percentage gain from gear to gear is a little closer with my derailleur setup, but I have a hard time understanding what the bigger gap between IGH gears would feel like to somebody riding the bike. I think in most of the gears the difference was only like 3% between my cassette and the IGH, and that doesn't sound like much. For those who have made the switch, how big of an adjustment was it to get used to the different gain ratios?

Steely Dan

i have an alfine 8 on my foul weather bike.

living in pancake flat chicago, 8 speeds is way more than i need, but the alfne 8 hub came with the bike i wanted, so.......

i typically cruise in 6. i'll bump it up to 7 with a nice tailwind, or drop down to 5 if i'm battling a headwind. for ripping tailwinds i will go all the way up to 8. at stop lights i usually drop down to 3 and use that as a starting gear and very quickly click my way up to 6. i never go down to 1 or 2 because there aren't any hills in chicago.

because i use my IGH essentially as a 3 speed the vast majority of time, i can't say i notice anything at all about the steps in between gears. i'm always in 6 unless it seems really hard or really easy to pedal due to wind, and adjust from there. i also have a 20 speed road bike and i find i use it very much the same way. i only use about 5 of the 20 speeds with any regularity, again because chicago is so unrelentingly flat. expressway overpasses are considered bigtime hills here

i will say that IGHs tend to weigh a ton, and even though it's rotational weight at the center of the wheel (where it matters less), i can still feel the drag of that weight.

all in all, i like the simplicity of an IGH for a foul-weather commuting bike, but i'll also always have a derailleur equipped bike for fair-weather commuting. having one of each is nice.

groovestew

I also have an Alfine 8 on my all-weather bike, and am running a 46T chain ring and 18T sprocket with 26" wheels. The gear range is wider than I need - I haven't encountered a hill where I needed to be in 1st, and I don't think I've ever been able to go fast enough to use 8th (and in fact, I rarely use 7, and generally only use 6 on downhills or with a tailwind). Most of the time I'm in 5th. For my purposes, I would have liked the gears to be closer together. There are times where I wished for a gear between 5 and 6 so that I could pedal at an optimal cadence. I didn't find the IGH hard to get used to, though. It's not optimal, but it's good enough for a commuter bike.

kookaburra1701

I have a bike with a Shimano Nexus 8.

I like it - it takes some getting used to since it shifts best when the pedals aren't moving. Just yesterday I made the chain jump the cog when sprinting through a left turn in a busy intersection because I tried to shift it like a derailleur. Getting the chain back on is a bit more involved than with a derailleur system - I had to flip the bike over and undo the axle bolts to loosen the chain enough to get it back on.

I'd also recommend getting used to getting the rear wheel off. It's not a big deal once you know how, but it's some extra steps you don't want to be doing for the first time in the rain.

Sometimes the dustcap rubs on the hub, it's very noticeable when the bike is on the repair stand, not as noticeable when I'm in the saddle. At some point I'll probably take it into a shop and see if it can be fixed. If I get around to it.

martianone

Have an older less refined nexus 8 - riding it is like any other bike, put your leg over the top tube and pedal away.
Soon you will forget the comments about weight, gear gaps, drag - even maintenance. The IGH will just keep ticking along. Nexus/alfine 8 hubs have the same range as an 11-34 cassette, much like a1x8 or 9, plenty of range for most commuters. Snow and slush won't gunk up your deraileur, but you do have to keep the shift lever/twister clean and the connection to the hub. Depending upon your bike set up and riding style -have to keep an eye on chain stretch, if you ride year around, suggest one of those rust resistant chains or a stainless one.

gmt13

I moved to a S-A 2 speed hub last year and think it's great. I have a higher high and a lower low than I did on my single speed setup that it replaced. Most of my riding is flattish with some rolling hills. I could see liking a few more gears occasionally, but feel that 2 is adequate. However if going from 1 to 2 speeds is heaven, going from 24 to 2 would probably seem like hell to you.

I am currently building up a commuter with an SA 5 speed hub, though. I guess I will find out what it's like but for now I keep wondering about how I am going to mentally handle all of those choices. Oh, the struggles of a bike commuter!

Good luck.

-G

fietsbob

Bigger gaps of 3 speeds, you adapt your cadence to the gear.. downshift feels too low?,
slow down a bit till it feels right.

tighter ratios like the one I use most , the Rohloff, the cadence/effort
can stay somewhat like the same , its 13.6% between the ratios.

a slight hesitation in power input to let gear cogs engage is not a difficult adaptation ..

and shifting down after the stoplight catches you in high, it's all good

tjspiel

I have two bikes, a road bike with a derailleur and what I'll call an all-purpose bike with an IGH.

The road bike features middle gears that are pretty closely spaced. On the Shimano 8 speed IGH there is a significant jump between 5th and 6th gear that bothers some people. I definitely notice it coming from my road bike. By using different sprocket/chainring combinations you can control where that 5 to 6 speed jump comes in to play to a certain extent.

Anyway, it's not the best option if you plan on using it for groups rides where you are trying to closely match speeds with a group of people. That really doesn't apply to commutes so it's not that big of a deal. I live with it.

On the plus side, if you get a newer high end Shimano IGH (red band, alfine) you'll be treated to an almost silent drivetrain even when coasting. No click,click,click,click noise as the wheel spins.

As far as weight is concerned I blew it when I converted my Bianchi to an IGH. I had weighed it before and after but lost the "before" measurement. I was curious as to how much difference it really made since you are getting rid of one chain ring, two derailleurs, one cassette/free hub, one shifter, and one cable. I'm guessing it's still heaver but even if not, it definitely puts more weight in the back.

One niggling concern is the use of grease as a lubricant in the 8 speed Shimano IGHs. It increases drag in cold weather. I get a double whammy because I'm also using a roller brake in the rear. I hope to swap my Nexus Red Band out with an Alfine and move to a disc brake instead. Pricey change but if I sell my Red Band wheel in the Spring I should recoup a good chunk of it.

Eventually I'd like to try an oil bath with the Alfine but probably won't do that the first winter.

FietsDontFailMe

I have a Rohloff and I have taken a Shimano 11 IGH for a test drive. I prefer the Rohloff.

The biggest difference from external gears is the control over pace and the absence of bad shifts. I find I ride better and enjoy riding more.

Rhodabike

I've got Alfine 8 on my commuter. It's great in traffic because of the ability to shift when completely stopped. The gearing is a bit limited, but okay for city riding. It really shines in the winter when snow would clog up a derailleur.

Scooby214

I currently have two IGH hubs, a Sturmey Archer S-RF3 and a SRAM Automatix A2. With proper chainring/cog selection, I have both hubs set to mimic the gears I usually ride in on my road bike. These are both very simple hubs, and are very efficient. I especially like the Automatix 2 speed. I've stripped it apart and put it back together. There is very little to go wrong in the hub, and appears to be built to last a very long time. I've lubed it with some simi-liquid "00" grease, which is light enough to work in cold weather without adding drag to the hub.

jolly_ross

Have had a Sturmey Archer 3 spd, a Shimano 7; Currently have a Rohloff and a Shimano 8 spd. I like the 8 spd on my winter bike - although on a long ride I can feel the friction losses in the hub - it's more syrupy to pedal than my derailleur bike. A riding partner reports the same - it bugs him more than me. I'll try oil dipping soon and see if it loosens things up.

Steely Dan

that is annoying. given the fact that IGH's seem like an absolute match made in heaven for a winter bike drive-train, why does shimano go and use a grease that increases drag inside the hub during cold weather? i rode my alfine 8 all last winter without noticing an increase in drag, but last winter was a completely fake winter (i was riding to work in shorts and t-shirt in january, WTF?).

we'll likely have a real winter in chicago this year. if i notice the cold weather having a negative effect on the performance of my alfine hub, how difficult is it to perform this oil bath procedure? will most LBS's perform such service?

Rhodabike

I've ridden my Alfine in temperatures down to -28ºC and haven't noticed any significant drag. There might be some, but it's not as bad as all that. Lumpy packed snow and studded tires make a far bigger difference to my speed (or lack of it). Since wind chill increases with speed, I don't want to be riding very fast in winter anyway.

rhm

I do all my commuting on IGH bikes, and almost all my riding on IGH's. The worst thing about them is that you very quickly forget how to use a derailleur. I mean, I still know how to shift a derailleur, that's something I'll never forget, of course. But the need to downshift before stopping, well, I forgot that within a week and never really got it back. I don't mean to rant against derailleurs; they're great, everyone knows that. I just kinda get to hate them, that's all.

The most surprising thing I've found about IGH's is that the number of gears doesn't really matter. I've done numerous centuries on a bike with an ancient Sturmey Archer hub and had no trouble keeping up with the other riders in the pack. For sure, there are times when you seem to be pedaling too fast, or too slow, but you get used to this in no time.

modernjess

The ride: Alfine 8 speed on a Surly Cross Check. Use it in 4 seasons and FWIW I don't feel any difference in the winter to summer with the grease and the drag in the hub or whatever. I'm in year 4 with it.

Pros:
- Very low maintenance. I had it pulled apart, serviced, and re-lubed this summer after 3 years, just for the hell of it. Otherwise nothing at all.
- Silent. great for sneaking up on pedestrians ;-)
- Shifting while stopped is a surprisingly useful feature for a commuter/town bike.
- Gear ratio is plenty wide for Minneapolis all year round. The gaps are wider than a 2x9 but whatever. I also ride road, mountain, fat, and single speed bikes too, so it is what it is.

Cons:
- it hates shifting under stress. you have to let up on the pedals, It's a small thing but I find it annoying.
- Heavy. I still like a light bike, but that idea goes out the window with this beast back there.
- A tiny bit more of a pain to fix a flat, but really nothing major.
- Not many choices for OEM shifters. I use a J-tek which is great. Every other type I've tried are cheap crap.

Summary: An IGH is a great choice for a commuter/town bike, especially if you ride in all conditions. What you give up in performance and weight is more than made up for in reliability and low maintenance. I highly recommend.

dscheidt

I've got an Alfine 8 speed. I screwed up when I set the gearing up, concentrating on getting a sensible low and a top that made sense, and ignoring the 5-6 gap. It turns out I really want a gear right in the middle. Next spring, I'll change that, I suspect.

I got the bike together right at the end of last winter, so I've not ridden in the winter. But I really like it, for my commute, for general ridding around town running errands, and for reasonably long distance rides. I've got a pretty fred set up, with the gear hub, rack, fenders, dynamo hub and lights, so it's heavy, which I only care about when I have to carry it up or down the stairs at work.

I agree with modernjess about the shifting under load. I've got a versa brifter, which is okay, but not as nice as most derailleur brifters. My shift strategy is push till the click, then immediately slow the pedaling down. It's only about an 1/8 of a pedal stroke, but it's annoying, and there are some times when I don't want to let up, and so can't shift. If I were riding a cruiser, or riding like I were, or had some shifter that isn't as easy to work (like the jtek barend) I don't think I would be bothered by it as much.

MichaelW

My Alfine 8 makes me adopt a more relaxed style of riding, less frenetic acceleration and braking. You get really lazy about shifting down to stop, no need. It takes less mental capacity so you can pay more attention to the road or girls or whatever.
I did an oil bath after about 3 years, it was very clean inside but the oiled hub rolls easier and works down to lower temps.
In chosing a frame, you need a good method of chain tensioning.Simple horizontal dropouts, fancy sliding vertical dropouts or one of the more reliable, less creaky eccentric bottom brackets (EBB).
Most manufacturers assume that IGH users dont care about weight so put them on heavy bikes.

mconlonx

If you're a cadence freak coming off an 11-23 rear cassette, you won't like the gear steps in an IGH hub.

Otherwise, riding an IGH equipped bike is a lot more like riding a derailleur equipped bike, than, say, milking a cow.

gear

I have two IGH bikes, a SA 8 on a MBT frame and a Shimano 11 on a commuter road bike. I also have two external derailluer bikes. The IGH bikes are heavy in comparison. Slow from a stop.

The 8 speed has gaps (between gears) that are noticble, the 11 isn't really noticable in that way. The 8speed hates to be shifted while pedaling and the grease inside gets sluggish in the cold. The 11 speed is very forgiving when pedaling while shifting and I haven't noticed any difference in cold weather (oil lubricated).

It's nice to be able to shift when stopped, but. The only real reason I feel most (commuters have such disparite rides compared to other riders) commuters should consider an IGH over an external derailluer bike is if they are riding all year long in all types of weather, even then they should seriously think about the weight penalty as it changes the bikes ride a great deal.

megalowmatt

It's like riding a colorful rainbow between two puffy clouds.

iFold

got the SRAM Automatix on my folding bike & the Alfine 11 on the almighty sawyer, both are good on seated spinning.

tjspiel

I definitely notice a difference in cold weather. There's a few reasons I may feel a difference and modernjess doesn't

1. I'm just more sensitive

2. My bike sits out in the cold at night. I don't feel much drag on the way home after my bike has been in a warm office all day but I do in the morning after my bike has been sitting out. (modernjess may have the same storage arrangements, - don't know)

3. I have a roller brake which also uses grease and Shimano admits in their documentation for that part that you will notice increased drag in cold weather. It could be what I'm noticing is more about the roller brake than the hub.

It's not just me. A local bike shop recommends replacing the grease with oil partly because of our cold winters. Here's their procedure:

Internal Gear Hub Service

I haven't done it yet but probably will before winter. There are all kinds of videos available. The Freewheel Bike Shop procedure I linked to uses Shimano's lubricants but there are people using ATF and other stuff instead.

It's also worth noting that the new Afline 11 speed hub uses oil rather than grease.

Rick@OCRR

I have the Shimano Nexus 8 on my commute bike (DaHon Curve SL folder) and like it a lot. No problems with it in a year and a half of use. The gears are spaced well (even though my bike has 16" wheels) though my relatively flat commute keeps me out of first and eighth most of the time.

Like the shift while still feature and didn't take long to get used to it even though all my other bikes are derailluer equipped (well, 'cept for my fixed gear bike of course).

Haven't noticed any increased drag on cooler days, though of course, it doesn't get really cold here in Los Angeles.

Rick / OCRR

tjspiel

Definitely recommend having an Alfine/Nexus hub serviced every so often if you ride in salty/winter conditions. I've seen pictures of the guts of some where moisture got inside and also had inadequate lubricant.

Not Pretty and darned expensive to replace.