Carbon drive or Chain?
I'm still in the process of trying to find the right winter commuter. I thought I had it narrowed down to the Spot Acme but being on these boards I came across another 11 speed IGH which happens to be the Raleigh Cadent I11. The Spot Acme has a carbon drive while the Raleigh has a chain. Question I have........Is the chain just as good as the carbon drive or does it really not matter since they are both IGH?
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i don't see the benefit of a belt-driven drivetrain or a chain-driven drivetrain.
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reports are, the wear is transferred to the cog wheels with belt drives,
by environmental grit on their surfaces. as they have chosen lighter, softer materials for those.. and they are considerably higher priced, to replace. |
Originally Posted by fietsbob
(Post 15243424)
reports are, the wear is transferred to the cog wheels with belt drives,
by environmental grit on their surfaces. as they have chosen lighter, softer materials for those.. and they are considerably higher priced, to replace. |
I would love to try a belt drive for use in winter. Lubricating and managing corrosion of a chain are a PIA. If it is true that cogs wear down inordinately fast that would definitely be a strike against them though.
Note: It's only because of the amount of salt that gets used on the roads here that I would consider a belt drive. If it's just moisture then I don't think it's as much of a problem. Things have improved for me with rust resistant chains and an IGH. |
one thing to consider: a bike designed for use with a belt-drive can be retrofitted with a chain-drive. but a bike designed for a chain-drive likely can't be retrofitted with a belt-drive because there won't be a break in the rear triangle to thread the belt through.
i know this because i bought a 2011 Scott SUB 10 which is a chain-drive IGH bike. a year later when the 2012 model of my bike came out, it featured a gates carbon drive. i thought that maybe it would be worth exploring if i should upgrade my bike accordingly, but alas, my bike has no frame break, and thus no ability to mod a belt-drive. as to the pros and cons of each, i'll let those who've used both tackle that. |
Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 15243481)
I would love to try a belt drive for use in winter. Lubricating and managing corrosion of a chain are a PIA. If it is true that cogs wear down inordinately fast that would definitely be a strike against them though.
Note: It's only because of the amount of salt that gets used on the roads here that I would consider a belt drive. If it's just moisture then I don't think it's as much of a problem. Things have improved for me with rust resistant chains and an IGH. Until the higher-end trekking bikes convert, I'm going to assume it's less durable and harder to get parts. edit: it does seems that some higher-end bikes offer Gates drive/Rohloff combos. but i still haven't seen enough long-term tests. |
Originally Posted by acidfast7
(Post 15243470)
I also heard reports that the alignment/tension has to be perfect when the rear wheel is moved/removed?
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The R&D for bicycle belt drives is still in it's infancy so there are issues that still need to be addressed to make it more set&forget user friendly and cost effective. So at this stage in the game I think it boils down to whether the user feels it's advantageous to spring for the higher cost but benefit from lower maintenance, silence and cleanliness that a belt drive offers vs the cheaper tried and true chain drive.
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Originally Posted by BassNotBass
(Post 15243612)
The R&D for bicycle belt drives is still in it's infancy so there are issues that still need to be addressed to make it more set&forget user friendly and cost effective. So at this stage in the game I think it boils down to whether the user feels it's advantageous to spring for the higher cost but benefit from lower maintenance, silence and cleanliness that a belt drive offers vs the cheaper tried and true chain drive.
:innocent: |
Originally Posted by acidfast7
(Post 15243673)
I didn't realize how silent they were. That does sound promising.
:innocent: Since you honed in on that one characteristic that can be perceived as an advantage among other cyclists, I'd have to assume that you're not familiar with the concept of "silence being golden". :innocent: |
The chain drive system has pretty much been perfected, why change from it? I used to commute all winter long, and aside from the weekly drive train overhaul and daily chain wipe down, the chain drive was never a point of hassle. If the motocrossers ain't using belts, neither am I.
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Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 15243481)
Note: It's only because of the amount of salt that gets used on the roads here that I would consider a belt drive. If it's just moisture then I don't think it's as much of a problem. Things have improved for me with rust resistant chains and an IGH.
This is Tern's new idea. A friend did the same thing with his polo bike years ago. It's just wire conduit wrapped around the chain. Put in some waterproof grease and it should work pretty good. |
Originally Posted by TiHabanero
(Post 15245116)
The chain drive system has pretty much been perfected, why change from it? I used to commute all winter long, and aside from the weekly drive train overhaul and daily chain wipe down, the chain drive was never a point of hassle. If the motocrossers ain't using belts, neither am I.
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Originally Posted by dynaryder
(Post 15245175)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=297851
This is Tern's new idea. A friend did the same thing with his polo bike years ago. It's just wire conduit wrapped around the chain. Put in some waterproof grease and it should work pretty good. |
I'm going to wait until the carbon belt price is equal to a chain. By that time, we should have forks and frames made from carbon nanotubes. :)
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Put in some waterproof grease and it should work pretty good. |
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I've used both.
I was an early adopter and took a chance with the first generation (pre center-trac) belt/cog designs. In general, I LOVED it for grimy, slushy, wet conditions and had no desire to use a chain. I later sold that bike after accepting the fact that the geometry was all wrong for me, and went back to a regular chain/IGH. For my current environment - essentially high desert and rocky mountains - with less than 12" of rain/snow per year, I'm fine with my chain. If I lived in a wetter climate - particularly with snow - I'd have no hesitation using a belt. Either one with an IGH is a far better choice (IMO of course) than a derailleur when the snow begins to fall. Here's a shot of my current drive train (chain/IGH) after a relatively short 12 mile jaunt on snowy roads in near zero (F) temperatures. It ran smooth as can be. I've seen people (including myself) cursing their derailleurs on days like that. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=298039 |
Originally Posted by canyoneagle
(Post 15248579)
I've used both.
I was an early adopter and took a chance with the first generation (pre center-trac) belt/cog designs. In general, I LOVED it for grimy, slushy, wet conditions and had no desire to use a chain. I later sold that bike after accepting the fact that the geometry was all wrong for me, and went back to a regular chain/IGH. For my current environment - essentially high desert and rocky mountains - with less than 12" of rain/snow per year, I'm fine with my chain. If I lived in a wetter climate - particularly with snow - I'd have no hesitation using a belt. Either one with an IGH is a far better choice (IMO of course) than a derailleur when the snow begins to fall. Here's a shot of my current drive train (chain/IGH) after a relatively short 12 mile jaunt on snowy roads in near zero (F) temperatures. It ran smooth as can be. I've seen people (including myself) cursing their derailleurs on days like that. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=298039 Question...........how often do you lube your chain up? |
Originally Posted by DTG
(Post 15250182)
Question...........how often do you lube your chain up?
it's really more about the conditions i'm riding through than any set amount of time or distance traveled. i've had winter weeks where i've lubed the chain everyday. conversely, i've also had dry spells in winter where i've gone weeks without needing to lube. |
gates carbon fiber belt drives have been widely used on motorcycles for many years.
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I have a pre-centertrack belt bike (Trek Soho) and dread having to fix a rear flat because it's such a PIA to get the tension just right. It seems like the tension "sweet spot" exists within a very narrow window. If the belt is a little too lose, it will skip under heavy loads, and if it's a little too tight, it'll squeal like a stuck pig. The good thing is, once you do get it just right, it's care free (at least until your next flat). It's strictly a personal preference, but I'd much rather deal with tensioning hassles every now and again, rather than having to clean my chain every other week. Plus, I've racked 3000 miles so far on my belt without any significant wear, whereas I used to have to replace my chain and cassette every 2000 miles (mostly because I was not very good about cleaning the drivetrain, even after riding it in rain and snow). My only regret is that I didn't wait for centertrack...
Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 15243489)
I think the newer "CenterTrack" design addressed that problem.
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Originally Posted by DTG
(Post 15250182)
Thanks for not only your experience but the picture as well.
Question...........how often do you lube your chain up? |
Originally Posted by spare_wheel
(Post 15251073)
gates carbon fiber belt drives have been widely used on motorcycles for many years.
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Note Much wider belt .. because exploding petrocabons have more stored energy.
and they dont have the gram couning market to satisfy compelling choosing light weight, and sacrificing wear lifespan ... back to more HP from motors , than legs.. |
And the belt drives haven't dominated the motorcycle market - still a ton of chains and shafts.
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From being a mechanic: Belt drives seem to be just fine. All tensioning issues aside (Which manufacturers have very elegant solutions to) I would gladly recommend them. Just make sure that the store you purchase from (Or your LBS atleast) is comfortable with working on them and that they are willing to order / stock parts for you.
All in all I would recommend them for basic commuting. Personally I am never gonna do one because I just like my 2X10 drivetrain too much, but if I was going to invest is a real "set and forget" bike, that is what I would choose. Dealing with chain and cassette wear is one of my biggest monetary expenses on my bike (And I need to be sure I catch the chain wear before I eat the cassette). Just go with a belt from a reputable source (Like a Trek SoHo or something). My overall recommendation is that if you go with a belt drive, don't cheap out on the purchase. Get something from a reputable brand and save yourself the un-godly headaches that a crappily designed bike induces. |
Originally Posted by dnuzzomueller
(Post 15254122)
Get something from a reputable brand and save yourself the un-godly headaches that a crappily designed bike induces.
I just put in an order for a Spot Ajax. Once I get it, ill put the pics up. |
That looks like an awesome bike. I look forward to seeing the pics, and hearing your impressions.
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My centertrack Gates belt and IGH just goes and goes and goes.......in any weather.
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