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I am curious: What Is Your Personal Longest Parking Time?

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I am curious: What Is Your Personal Longest Parking Time?

Old 03-11-13, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JReade
Right, I'm aware of that. I bought most of my bikes off Craigslist, a nice commuter is the 1992 Hardrock I bought for $85 dollars. Lets say the average wage is $30,000 a year after taxes, after living at 1/4 your monthly take home, you are still left waiting 1 year and 3 months at minimum to make an $85 dollar purchase. That seems a bit over the top.
I agree until you consider what percentage of people didn't accomplish it. Just look at the foreclosure rate between 2007 and 2012.

I'd recommend holding off on the purchase.

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Old 03-11-13, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
As far as my fiscal constraint comment, I think people shouldn't be buying a bike until that have at least 12 months of net salary saved in the US or 6 months in Europe (due to differences in the unemployment insurance). At which point, I'd still hesitate to spend more than 20% of a month's net salary on a commuting bike (this is the commuting forum, right?).

Hope that clarifies my perspective.
Seems like a lot of money to expect people to have saved up before buying something that might make it cheaper to get to work in the first place. Back when I worked in central London I used to pay £140/month for my train journeys that routinely took a bit over an hour each way. The bike I bought for £350 will get me to the same place just as fast, and including repairs and upgrades I've got about £600 in that bike. So for all I wouldn't want to lose that £600 bike (and wouldn't leave it unattended all day) if I used it to commute to work in London it would have paid for itself in a little over four months (probably more like three months now, as I don't suppose the monthly season ticket is any cheaper than it was then).

As to how much to spend I guess on a commuter bike that would depend on how far the commute was. If it's a couple of miles to the station to take the train from there then I'd agree with the idea of having something as cheap as possible, although for a couple of miles I'd probably walk it rather than faff around with a bike, locks, lights etc. If it's a longer commute I'd want to be doing it on a bike that was fast enough and comfortable enough that I'd get to work in a state to work rather than spend the first hour soothing the assorted pains from riding on a bike that wasn't really up to the job.

If the commute were long enough to want to do it on a decent bike but there was nowhere to adequately secure a bike at the other end I'd look for a different means of commuting.
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Old 03-11-13, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
Standard emergency fund advice is 6-12 months.
You're the only person I've come across who suggests not buying anything until they've got 12 months salary in the bank. Most of the financial advice I've seen suggests more like 3-6 months pay as an emergency fund. Even then it makes more sense to buy a bike for £500 to get to work than it does to buy a car for £5000 to make the same journey.
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Old 03-11-13, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
I agree until you consider what percentage of people [U]didn't[U] accomplish it. Just look at the foreclosure rate between 2007 and 2012.

I'd recommend holding off on the purchase.
Okay, lets do some math.

1 month bus pass is $65 USD

Nice bike + commuting gear = $300 USD?

You save almost $500 the first year buy buying the bike. That bike paid for itself in a little under 5 months (even 6 if we say you'll need new tubes now and again), which at this point is letting you save the $780 every 12 months after the first 6 months.

You are still on board with holding off for the first 1.25 years before making a purchase?
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Old 03-11-13, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by contango
Seems like a lot of money to expect people to have saved up before buying something that might make it cheaper to get to work in the first place. Back when I worked in central London I used to pay £140/month for my train journeys that routinely took a bit over an hour each way. The bike I bought for £350 will get me to the same place just as fast, and including repairs and upgrades I've got about £600 in that bike. So for all I wouldn't want to lose that £600 bike (and wouldn't leave it unattended all day) if I used it to commute to work in London it would have paid for itself in a little over four months (probably more like three months now, as I don't suppose the monthly season ticket is any cheaper than it was then).

As to how much to spend I guess on a commuter bike that would depend on how far the commute was. If it's a couple of miles to the station to take the train from there then I'd agree with the idea of having something as cheap as possible, although for a couple of miles I'd probably walk it rather than faff around with a bike, locks, lights etc. If it's a longer commute I'd want to be doing it on a bike that was fast enough and comfortable enough that I'd get to work in a state to work rather than spend the first hour soothing the assorted pains from riding on a bike that wasn't really up to the job.

If the commute were long enough to want to do it on a decent bike but there was nowhere to adequately secure a bike at the other end I'd look for a different means of commuting.
I'd never ride a train/tube in England.
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Old 03-11-13, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by contango
You're the only person I've come across who suggests not buying anything until they've got 12 months salary in the bank. Most of the financial advice I've seen suggests more like 3-6 months pay as an emergency fund. Even then it makes more sense to buy a bike for £500 to get to work than it does to buy a car for £5000 to make the same journey.
I said 12 months in the US, 6 months in the EU because the EU has reasonable, albeit more expensive, unemployment insurance (in Germany it's 80% of salary for 12 months.)
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Old 03-11-13, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JReade
Okay, lets do some math.

1 month bus pass is $65 USD

Nice bike + commuting gear = $300 USD?

You save almost $500 the first year buy buying the bike. That bike paid for itself in a little under 5 months (even 6 if we say you'll need new tubes now and again), which at this point is letting you save the $780 every 12 months after the first 6 months.

You are still on board with holding off for the first 1.25 years before making a purchase?
Why don't you do a poll and determine how much money the average person spends on BF per year cycling? Or the average cost of all of their commuting bikes, I would wager that 300 USD is really low for a used bike, tune-up, new tires, helmet, clothes, lights and water bottles (all the stuff that would be needed versus the bus.)

In addition, cycling to work every day (800kcals/day), requires greater food consumption (probably 2-3USD/day) ... so 20 days commuting = 40+ extra USD/month, while sitting on the bus requires 0 extra dollars in food. I've done this calculation on the forum multiple times.
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Old 03-11-13, 10:55 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
I'd never ride a train/tube in England.
I wouldn't blame you, they're pretty dismal places to be. Not sure how you'd get to work in central London if you were trying to save up 6 months' salary before you bought your bike though.
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Old 03-11-13, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
Why don't you do a poll and determine how much money the average person spends on BF per year cycling? Or the average cost of all of their commuting bikes, I would wager that 300 USD is really low for a used bike, tune-up, new tires, helmet, clothes, lights and water bottles (all the stuff that would be needed versus the bus.)

In addition, cycling to work every day (800kcals/day), requires greater food consumption (probably 2-3USD/day) ... so 20 days commuting = 40+ extra USD/month, while sitting on the bus requires 0 extra dollars in food. I've done this calculation on the forum multiple times.
So you're on the side of "Taking the bus is cheaper than commuting". Do you spend over $65 a month on cycling? And $65 a month is better to spend than $85 once?
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Old 03-11-13, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
Why don't you do a poll and determine how much money the average person spends on BF per year cycling? Or the average cost of all of their commuting bikes, I would wager that 300 USD is really low for a used bike, tune-up, new tires, helmet, clothes, lights and water bottles (all the stuff that would be needed versus the bus.)
I put some figures out there already but let's flesh it out a bit more:

Monthly season ticket to central London = £167.50

Bike £345
Upgrade tyres £70
Lights £25
Helmet £60
Locks £80 (could be cheaper for a cheaper bike, that's what I spent on locks for my MTB)
Rack & panniers £90

Total £670, meaning the bike pays for itself within four months.

In addition, cycling to work every day (800kcals/day), requires greater food consumption (probably 2-3USD/day) ... so 20 days commuting = 40+ extra USD/month, while sitting on the bus requires 0 extra dollars in food. I've done this calculation on the forum multiple times.
OK, so add £40/month to the bike costs to see what that does:

After six months:
Season ticket = £167.5 x 6 = £1,005
Bike = £670 + £40x6 = £910 (£95 saving)

After 12 months:
Season ticket = £167.5 x 12 = £2,010
Annual ticket = £1,744
Bike = £670 + £40x12 = £1,150 (£860 saving / £594 against annual ticket)

Even if you want to throw in the cost of replacement components, when you're saving £127/month compared to public transport you can replace your chain and cassette every single month and still be better off. At 100 miles/week you'd only actually need to replace them maybe every 5-6 months. If you've got the means to buy a £1700 ticket it works out cheaper but then if you've got £1700 sitting around idle you can just as easily spend £700 on a bike plus accessories, put the surplus grand in the bank and use it towards your savings.
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Old 03-11-13, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JReade
So you're on the side of "Taking the bus is cheaper than commuting". Do you spend over $65 a month on cycling? And $65 a month is better to spend than $85 once?
I spend €29.34/month on a Frankfurt-wide public transit ticket (map attached).

That is less than what I spend on food to power my bike (€2/day x 20 days = €40/month).

In addition, everyone pays the same insurance premium (roughly 8% of gross salary) regardless of what physical condition I'm in, so I don't get lower premiums by riding my bike.

In fact, even if someone gave me all my gear for free, I'd still lose money every time I commuted by bike (and a few minutes of time.)

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Old 03-11-13, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
I spend €21.32/month on a Frankfurt-wide public transit ticket (map attached).

That is less than what I spend on food to power my bike (€2/day x 20 days = €40/month).

In addition, everyone pays the same insurance premium (roughly 8% of gross salary) regardless of what physical condition I'm in, so I don't get lower premiums by riding my bike.

In fact, even if someone gave me all my gear for free, I'd still lose money every time I commuted by bike (and a few minutes of time.)


So you pay close to half of what I would have to in order to take a better public transit system (we have no trains, only buses). Your situations are different than the ones faced here, so can you see how the bike can be a cheaper option than taking the bus, and commuting by bike can help saving for the goal of having a year of salary as backup?

Related - If I take the bus to work from my house, it's an estimated 1 hour and 40 minutes. If I bike, It's 45 minutes + shower + changed , so an hour. It's a 10 mile commute by bike. So I've wasted another 1.3 hours a day so 6.5 to 7 hours extra a week is spent sitting on a bus. What's your time worth?
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Old 03-11-13, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JReade
So you pay close to half of what I would have to in order to take a better public transit system (we have no trains, only buses). Your situations are different than the ones faced here, so can you see how the bike can be a cheaper option than taking the bus, and commuting by bike can help saving for the goal of having a year of salary as backup?

Related - If I take the bus to work from my house, it's an estimated 1 hour and 40 minutes. If I bike, It's 45 minutes + shower + changed , so an hour. It's a 10 mile commute by bike. So I've wasted another 1.3 hours a day so 6.5 to 7 hours extra a week is spent sitting on a bus. What's your time worth?
It's even more complicated as the "fast" trains compete with planes and it's easy to incorporate a folding bike into a multi-modal 300-mile RT commute. For €400/mo, unlimited riding on the trains is possible. Most reasonable employers will pick up the tab as well.

In this video, train = 186mph, cars = 80-100mph, trucks=70mph


edit: you could always pick up a 4G laptop for the bus/train.

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Old 03-11-13, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
I spend €29.34/month on a Frankfurt-wide public transit ticket (map attached).

That is less than what I spend on food to power my bike (€2/day x 20 days = €40/month).

In addition, everyone pays the same insurance premium (roughly 8% of gross salary) regardless of what physical condition I'm in, so I don't get lower premiums by riding my bike.

In fact, even if someone gave me all my gear for free, I'd still lose money every time I commuted by bike (and a few minutes of time.)

My employer pays me about $2 a day to ride my bike to work ($50 for 30 commutes + $200 health incentive).
I also save ~60 minutes a day riding to work versus public transport.

In the summer there are many hundreds of bikes parked at the Bike valet:

(I rarely park at the tram stop. Its far more fun to ride up the hill. The multiple secure bike storage facilities are packed in the summer.)
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Old 03-11-13, 12:05 PM
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also: the beer on tap in the fast train is better than the beer on tap on my bike
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Old 03-11-13, 12:06 PM
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nice photos.

Originally Posted by spare_wheel
$200 health incentive.
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Old 03-11-13, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
edit: you could always pick up a 4G laptop for the bus/train.
But not a bike?
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Old 03-11-13, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JReade
But not a bike?
a good tablet with data plan is like €10/month or so.
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Old 03-11-13, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
In addition, cycling to work every day (800kcals/day), requires greater food consumption (probably 2-3USD/day) ... so 20 days commuting = 40+ extra USD/month, while sitting on the bus requires 0 extra dollars in food. I've done this calculation on the forum multiple times.
Greater food consumption is not just an additional expense..

I don't live to eat, but I also don't live to squeeze every cent. Being able to eat/drink more without gaining additional weight is not only a great benefit, but makes living more enjoyable.
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Old 03-11-13, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
a good tablet with data plan is like €10/month or so.
Are you breaking down the cost for the year by month?
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Old 03-11-13, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by JReade
Are you breaking down the cost for the year by month?
just add it to your telephone plan for €9/mo and use it on the bus.

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Old 03-11-13, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
just add it to your telephone plan for €9/mo and use it on the bus.

For me to purchase a tablet from my provider, it's $200 to purchase, then any additional data plan ($15 usd minimum). This is a rather expensive way to save money.
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Old 03-11-13, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JReade
For me to purchase a tablet from my provider, it's $200 to purchase, then any additional data plan ($15 usd minimum). This is a rather expensive way to save money.


sorry man, didn't realize you guys get the shaft.

perhaps, riding the bike is a better option.

i think with socialism, all options are similar in cost, with the exception owning a personal car.
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Old 03-11-13, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7
my bike lives outside.

it's a bike, not a family member.
Maybe it isn't liked enough by you to be considered a family member; maybe it is too hideous to be loved; maybe you are rich and can afford if it is stolen?
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Old 03-11-13, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by agent pombero
Maybe it isn't liked enough by you to be considered a family member; maybe it is too hideous to be loved; maybe you are rich and can afford if it is stolen?
I like hideous. Personally, I think it's too conformist.
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