GregTR

I'd say most EU countries have far more stringent regulations than the US: https://www.fixiebikes.com/european-bicycle-laws/ So on an economic scale it's better just to build most bikes with lights and fenders.

Commodus

Yes, absolutely. I certainly prefer my rando bike to my touring bike, for this very reason.

spare_wheel

plus you kinda look dumb screaming "wheeeeeeeeeee" on a decked out rando bike.

mikhalit

I agree with Commodus, the real world difference may be within the uncertainty. In Hamburg many times people on the Breezer like bikes keep up with me because of the traffic lights. If I wanted to go significantly faster than them i'd need to stop following the traffic regulations. Kinda what couriers do.

Commodus

Well you've obviously never descended on one through the woods in the dead of night, somewhere on Whidbey Island (Washington) in the middle of a 600km event.

...perhaps we did look dumb.

Steely Dan

in the real world not everyone has an urban commute that is nothing but traffic lights. on the 7.5 miles of my commute along chicago's uninterrupted lakefront path, i can go much faster on my road bike than i could ever hope to achieve on a breezer-like bike. once i'm back on city streets with stop lights and traffic, then the overall speed difference between the two certainly would become less.

Commodus made a rather absolutist statement that there is no speed difference what-so-ever between a stripped-down race bike and a deck-out rando bike when commuting, but he forgot that not everyone on the planet has the same type of congested & trafficy commute route that he has. for some types of commutes (such as those that are wide open and free for miles on end), if you want to ride as fast as you can, there is a reason beyond appearance to ride a stripped down speed machine.

mikhalit

Sure, that's true for the Breezers, but do you really think that 7.5mi is enough to show the difference between a racing machine and a fast rando bike? My experience is that unless you ride in a group the difference is rather small. Weather conditions and the level of tiredness matter way more, but that's my experience.

tjspiel

When looking at videos of cyclists in Copenhagen and similar places it also seems like the volume of bike traffic makes it significantly harder to go much faster than anybody else.

Bike lanes here can sometimes be like that, - you can get stuck behind a slower moving cyclist or two in front of you. However very little of my commute is on bike lanes. I do need to be careful about foot traffic in places where people tend to cross without looking. Mostly I'm free to go as fast as I want.

Steely Dan

oh, it's not an earth-shattering speed difference, but the fenders, racks, and dynohub will create a little bit more drag compared to a bike without such things. if the weather is nice, why ride a bike with fenders? i have a different bike with fenders that i ride when it's crappy out.

and i get along just fine with small battery-powered LED blinkies, why would i want a bike with a dynohub (the good ones are very spendy)?

and i'm a back-pack commuter, i much prefer to have the weight on me as opposed to the bike (sprung vs. unsprung weight) so why would i ever want to bog down a svelte little race bike with racks and such?

if you prefer riding a bike with such add-ons, that's super-cool. ride whatever puts a smile on your face. but i fail to see how they'd help me get along when i have opposite preferences.

tjspiel

I agree, but when tired or dealing with strong winds and hills that's when a light, aerodynamic bike can life a bit easier.

mikhalit

Nah, I am totally fine with anybody riding anything, it only seems interesting how much people worry about the drag effect of dynohubs and fenders when talking about distances under 15 miles.

mikhalit

I am sure about that, i am just not sure how many watts will be added by the low profile fenders and +100-200 gr dynolight. In summer I will strip down my bike to bare necessities (no real lights, no dynamo, no fenders, sometimes no gears) but that's only for my joy, there is not so much difference in performance. It's flat here, but very windy, damn westerlies.

Steely Dan

i agree that the effect is not great, but it's still there. it's not something that i spend much, if any, time worrying about, but if i don't want/need things like fenders, racks, and dynohubs on a given bike, then why should i have them? what are they doing for me other than hanging around as dead weight?

if i were a one bike person, then yes, something like commodus' rando bike would be more versatile than my road bike that really only does one thing well (fair-weather).

but i much prefer having a stable of bikes over having just one do-it-all bike, and i'm blessed to be able to afford such, so, yay me!

dynaryder

Then you got lucky. My bad weather bike(Safari) has 10k+ miles. Got 5 flats in the stock tires in the first couple months I owned it. Swapped to better tires and have been flat-free with it since. Everyone flats eventually.

Foreign Object Damage. Military term for damage caused to aircraft by something they picked up off the ground. Also used to describe the foreign objects.

Not an option on most parts of the local trails. Also not always an option depending on where your commute route takes you.

No we're not.

True,but they're pretty much only found stock on heavy bikes. I've never heard of a road(race) or cross bike that came with one. Also,the aftermarket ones that fit derailleur bikes aren't common,and only handle up to 48t rings,so if you're running a der drivetrain with a big ring larger than a 48,you're out of luck.

mikhalit

No, in the situation you describe you wouldn't benefit from it, that's clear. My only point is that you wouldn't loose much having it if it was your only bicycle.

dynaryder

First off,full chain case? Nope,just a top run:


Second,we don't have a choice. It's not like Bike N' Roll where you get to pick which type of bike you want. They're all the same,take it or leave it.

I use the Cabi's all the time for going back and forth to Metro. I'd love to see them go on a diet. An 8 or even a 5 speed hub would be an improvement;I won't climb the mondo hills on those things. I always carry a rear light because the ones on the bikes are a joke. And just today I was riding one through G'town when I got hit by the wind. Between the sit-up-and-beg riding position,and the nice flat vertical piece on the front rack,it cranked up the suck level a good 3-4 notches.

I'm no fan of these things,but they're better than leaving one of my bikes locked at a Metro station,or dragging a folder around during rush hour,and they allow me to come and go from different stations. So I deal with them. But they're not the bikes I would have specc'd for DC.

modernjess

Wow 7 pages on this? Bike Forums - Make a blanket statement and you'll never be lonely.

zacster

I'm in with the folks that think that the speed difference will be negligible, based on my own experience. It takes me an hour to commute on my MTB w/ slicks, fenders, rack, pannier. It takes me 59 minutes to do the same ride on my 16 pound road bike, attired in spandex, and with nothing more than a water bottle on the bike.

That said, I'd never try to ride a bike like the Breezer for more than a few miles. It would feel like a slug. Even my MTB can move when I want it to, but I've been on some of these cruzer bikes and I don't ever want to ride more than a few minutes on one.

canyoneagle

+1 to all of this. I love my IGH when things are not sunny and warm, but prefer a derailleur otherwise. That said, I'm still riding my IGH bike as my primary transportation as it is my only bike at the moment, and it does not bother me.
I like my Avid BB7 mechanical discs - they've served me well, even when completely packed with snow and ice. I'd imagine hydraulics to be even better due to the completely sealed system.
I can understand Aaron's point against dynamo lights on multiple bikes. Makes sense to me (expensive to do that). I really like my dynamo setup on my commuter, but will not use such a setup on my road bike.

The bike originally posted would not be optimal for my current commute, but I'd consider it to be a great bike for a shorter urban commute.

Chesha Neko

And we have a winner.

DogBoy

That is why you get thicker tubes also, and when you DO get a flat, you find the hole in the tube and repair the tube rather than replacing it. I have had 3 flats on my breezer, and with the pre-glued patches, some cotton balls and a frame pump, it takes me about the same time to repair a tube on the breezer and move on as it does to replace a tube on my roadbikes.

Not disagreeing with anything you say here, but I put a dyno hub on every bike I have (except my road-bike). The key thing about dyno lights that battery lights didn't do for me was being there all the time. I often find myself staying later at work than planned or otherwise ending up riding in darkness when I hadn't planned to do so. I would end up always having to carry around the rechargeable light and always worrying about keeping it charged so that in case I'm late I have one. With dyno hub/lights, I just get on the bike and they are there. Also, my dyno lights only flicker for the first few feet. As soon as I'm going 3 mph there is no more flicker. So for some people it does make sense to have on every bike, but I think people like me are in the minority, and if I were selling bikes I wouldn't stock many of them anyway, since people like me also tend to like to build up their bikes from frames.

KonAaron Snake 

These what kind of bear is best arguments are kind of silly - all bikes are tools, some are better at specific things than others. When you pick a bike, you're balancing what positives you most care about and what negatives matter less. That balance is different for all of us. For me, I don't want to carry a 50lbs bike up and down my basement steps and QR wheels are a hard requirement, not optional. I have multiple bikes, so dynamo lighting is out. For me - I like these two best for around town commuting...but my around town needs more often than not require moving things and carrying them:






One of the things I like best about both of these bikes is versatility. The Koga has enough pep to still be fun, it's extremely comfortable and it can do pretty much anything I want.

The "Huffy" is impervious to rust or dings, so I like it for parking. I feel safer with the camo. It eats up pot holes and gravel.

Leebo

40 lbs, ugh, why not just carry a boat anchor. My commute is 18 miles, one way. Sometimes a cross check, sometimes a mountain bike. The mountain bike is the "ideal" bike for me because I can get 8 miles of dirt on a 20 mile commute home, everyone should be so lucky. One of my winter commuters is a beater road bike, 1x8 drivetrain with a thumb shifter on the stem, perfect with 700x 35 mm studded tires. The other winter commuter is rockhopper with 26 "x 1.95 studded tires and disc brakes and a sus fork up front. Rim brakes work poorly in the New England winters. Sometimes I take the Karate Monkey for a longer off road ride on the way home. My ideal commuter depends on the day, the season and the weather.

HardyWeinberg

Yep, Breezer is an awesome commuter bike, it's what my wife rides mostly.

I-Like-To-Bike

Curious, how do you define "hard core cyclists"?

Do you mean racing or speed/distance performance oriented cyclists? If so, you are probably right.

If "hard core cyclists" means people who cycle in all kind of weather, year round due to lack of alternative means of affordable transport, or because they prefer bicycling to the alternatives, then you are wrong, world wide.

If "hard core cyclists" means self described Serious/Real/True Cyclists™ don't think you find so many in Europe, they are mostly a product of North America.