AusTexMurf

Placed the order today to build up the following commuter wheel set for my Origin8 CX700 ride:

VelocityDyad 700c Touring/29er Rim, 36H

Shimano Hub Front HB-T660 DLX 36H Sil

Shimano Rear Hub Deore LX T660 36H Silver Model # (HUH664)

DT Swiss Competition 2.0/1.8 Spokes Silver, Double Butted


riding on these tires, but higher end version w/ reflective sidewalls, great all conditions tires:
Continental Travel Contacts 700X37


Hoping it will be a sturdy, efficient, and cost effective commuter wheel build.
Will post reflections after build and again after a few hundred miles of use.
Parts should arrive in 3-4 days, build when time is available.

mconlonx

Looks like a solid build.

From Velocity, I like Synergy rims because they are eyeletted.

DT Swiss Competition spokes usually come with alloy nipples -- see if you can swap those out with the shop for brass ones, or if you are ordering online, get separate brass nipples. Aluminum nipples on an aluminum rim can lead to trouble. Not so much in Texas, but still...

fietsbob

still they make bigger bombs.. but those should at least be adequate..

Sixty Fiver

Use brass nipples, spoke prep and you are going to be golden with this.

AusTexMurf

Good advice on the nipples. I prefer brass as well for its stability and anti-corrosion.
Will do.

Edit:
Actually, checked my order. Brass nipples are included.
Also, synergy rims are very hard to find in 700c, 36H. For whatever reason, most vendors only carry the 32h version.
And, is my understanding that the deeper V profile of the dyads makes eyelets unnecessary, even undesirable due to the design of the wheel. I believe the synergies have a much lower profile, w/ flatter surface, therefore the design w/ eyelets. For these reasons, I thought the dyad would be the stronger build.

Anyone w/ more experience in wheel building than I have want to clarify ?

Thanks and best.
Ride. A lot. Have fun.

Bill Kapaun

With a 36 spoke front, I would have gone to 1.8/1.6mm spokes and saved a couple oz.
You'd still have a very solid wheel, but a bit "nimbler".

cyccommute 

Wrong spokes for a "bomb proof" wheel. You should use DT Alpine III. They are stronger than the Competition. You could also use Wheelsmith DH-13 or Sapim Strongs. All three have a 2.3mm elbow which increase the spoke strength significantly.

mconlonx

More about material than strength. And to tell the truth, I've had issues with Velocity eyeletted rims, specifically with eyelets next to the welded seam wanting to pull out. They have been cheerfully warrantied, but you only find out about the issue at the very end of the wheelbuild, approaching final tension. Grr.

In the Northeast, corrosion is a big issue. Probably is anywhere state DOTs use salt on the roads, but we are also on a seacoast, so there's salt in the air. Aluminum doesn't rust, but it does corrode and get brittle. Five years out on a wheelset using aluminum on aluminum like if you were building Dyads up with aluminum nipples, and I can almost guarantee that the wheel will need to be rebuilt--nipple/rim interface frozen together, nipple/spoke interface corroded, or nipples corroded/brittle to the point where you touch them with a spoke wrench and they crumble. No matter what you do to prep them.

So my New England seacoast commuter build is: rims with stainless eyelets, brass nipples, stainless spokes. Grease on the inside of the spoke holes in the rim; DT Swiss spoke prep or boiled linseed oil on the spoke threads.

Truly bombproof, yes, but slightly overkill unless OP is a heavy Clyde.

mconlonx

Dude came through the shop yesterday with his Surly LHT, about to head out on long-term tour. Wheels were Peter White-built Schmidt dynamo front, White Industry rear hubs; 40 spokes, 4x; brass nipples; Velocity Chukker rims . Solid.

ThermionicScott 

If you're going for "bombproof", nothing is overkill.

The ingredients look pretty good to me -- just make sure you (the OP) build it up carefully, with sufficient tension and stress-relieving afterward.

seeker333

Al nips can break (brass almost never do), may require tire removal to replace. They cost 2-3X as much as brass. Although they save 30g rotating weight per wheel set, most folks don't see that as adequate pro in view of the other cons.

Dyad rims don't have eyelets because they won't fit on the V edge of the Dyad rim. It's impossible for the riveting machine to seat the eyelet properly unless the rim cross section is nearly flat.

The Synergy rim is popular for rear wheel builds because it can be had in an asymmetrically-drilled version, with spoke holes 4mm off center. Building with holes towards the non-drive (ND) side allows you to negate much of the wheel dish created by the geometry of 8-9-10-11s cassette drivetrains. Typical wheel builds with conventional, symmetrically-drilled rims will have 120kgf tension on drive side, 80kgf on ND side. With Synergy you can get it to about 120/105. Net result is a better wheel build, likely to have greater longevity than one built with a conventional rim.

That's the theory. Practically speaking, as a builder/user of many Synergy rims, Velocity's quality is a little hit or miss, like everyone else, just not quite as bad. The Synergy rim is known to eventually crack around the spoke holes - many wheels do this if you ride them enough on with adequate (touring) load. You can continue to ride after the cracks develop, but they may eventually turn into spoke pull-out.

The cracks are due to the "synergy" of two factors - rim spoke bed too thin (weak), and too much tension. Velocity doesn't make the raw rim extrusion, they contract it out. They take the flat Al extrusion strips and bend them into hoops, weld/pin the joints, powder coat/decorate, drill spoke holes, insert eyelets, grind brake track etc. The raw material varies a little (or a lot) with each batch, and Velocity usually takes whatever they get regardless and manufactures rims to meet pressing demand.

Informed wheel builders take the Synergy OC rim, and striving to make a low dish rim, tension spokes to the manufacturer-specified 120 kgf maximum on drive side and whatever they can get on the ND side, which results in a wheel with more spoke tension than the average wheel. Combine thin rim spoke bed with increased spoke tension and you get cracks at the spoke holes.

I bought my last pair of 700/36 Synergy OC (off center) rims from Bens when they were $60. Search for a 15% discount coupon. Peter White also stocks these rims.

https://www.benscycle.net/index.php?m...ducts_id=10442

Next time you build, consider USA-made Wheelsmith spokes. They are every bit as good as DT, usually cost less, and their 1.8/2.0mm DB spokes weigh less than DT equivalent due to a more effective butting profile.

mconlonx

Hmm. I usually aim for 100-110 kgf. No issues with cracking around the spoke holes on my Synergies, or anything related to too low tension.

+1 on Wheelsmith DB spokes.

AusTexMurf

Excellent. Thanks for all of the advice.
I really like the White hubs but were a bit out of my price point for commuter wheels.
Also, I am running vbrakes w/ koolstops. My new hubs are rim brake specific, not for use w/ disc brakes. Should also help with dishing. Are the offset synergys more for the disc offset ?

I commute on (mostly) 3 bikes. This origin8 cx700 monster cross........also set up for fully loaded touring/gravel roads/railstotrails/fire roads and has hitches for my 2 trailer systems, a converted steel mtn bike (best at pulling the trailer and best off pavement, town beater, ride w/ kids), and a light, fast, rebuilt 1983 univega sportour for faster, lighter loads w/ light rear rack only.

I am moving the existing wheel set from the origin8 to the univega because it is an Origin8 Aero, deep V, low count, bladed spoke wheel. Supposedly very strong but I can't keep it trued with the loads, roads, trails, trailers, etc, that I subject this wheel set to on a regular basis.
The CX700 needs more wheel. The univega could use an upgrade/modernization to 700c from 27inch and should be golden with the Origin8 aero wheel set because this is a lighter, faster, less loaded ride for me. Mostly just a rack and lock or sometimes a pannier.

Also, I maintain 15 bikes, 2 trailers, 2 tagalongs, 1 heavy duty trike, and a pedicab. 6 people in my fam.
I am trying to build the best and sturdiest overall 700c wheel set for commuting, on my budget.

Thanks, everyone, for input.

And I considered other spokes from DT, Wheelsmith, and Sapim. Decide on double butted to give the wheel some lateral flex because of the v shape dyads. Rim should be pretty stiff by shape/design but wanted a little flex in the middle of the spoke.
Could have used straight spokes, Champions, or the Alpines, but was trying to allow for a little lateral movement.
Wasn't aware of the cost/weight savings of the Wheelsmiths, though.
Would def consider them for a similar project next time around.

And also........probably shouldn't say bomb proof.
City proof, maybe, or better, commuter proof.

I run 40 spoke wheels on the two pedicabs I have ridden. These are more 'bomb proof.'
One on massive custom order sun ringle rhinos, not lights, w/ corresponding heavy duty custom fab hubs.

The other is a 40 spoke English made steel wheel and hub combo, quite heavy duty, softer compound. However, can be bent back somewhat, if needed. Heavy and slow build, though.

corwin1968

When I was ready to buy new wheels I contacted Rich Lesnik of Rivendell Bicycle Works and told him my weight (375) and riding style (pavement and packed earth) and he built me up a set of wheels based on some non-branded touring hubs that he was impressed with, 40 spoke Velocity Dyad rims, brass nipples and DTSwiss spokes cross 4 (or is it "4 cross"?). Sounds like a very similar build with the Chukkers maybe being a bit stouter.

AusTexMurf

4X or four cross. How we lace our pedicab wheels in austin.
Very sturdy, looks a bit odd. Need longer spokes for 4X, I believe, really long for 700c. Although the Chukkers deep V design should shorten the reach a bit, as does a hub like the Whites.

Bill Kapaun

Since you are using 37mm tires, that will absorb a lot of the jolts and be much easier on your wheels.

I recently built a 559 wheel with the Synergy OC rim.
It's "stuffed" into my 86 Rockhopper w/ 9 speed.
Spacing is 132 because that's what I could spread without undue effort.
My NDS tension is 83.3% of DS tension (measured as best I could) vs 84.8% calculated via Spocalc.
That translates to 110kgf & 93kgf. plenty enough without straining anything.
Without the 4mm offset, calculated NDS tension is 63.2% of DS.
I used straight 2.0mm DS & 2.0-1.8mm DB on the NDS.
I basically wanted a wheel that would support a lot of weight on the rear rack.
The previous wheel was just a generic single wall rim with excessive dish. There were a couple times it felt "odd" when making a left turn. I felt it "might" be wanting to fold up. It might be a placebo effect, but this wheel simply "feels" much more solid. It also seemed to have less rolling resistance********** I can't prove/disprove that.