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  1. #1
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Anti-theft saddle screw?

    Hello

    I noticed a lot of people carrying either a chain, a light lock that takes a couple of seconds to break, or even a U lock just to secure their saddle... all to no avail since the saddle is only connected to the seat post with a 100% unsecure regular Allen screw:

    secure.saddle.screw.jpg

    Indded, it seems no one makes secure saddle screws. The usual suspects (Pinhead, Pitlock, Zefal, Anti-vandale) only seem to sell seat post screws.

    Can someone confirm, or is there a manufacturer I should know about?

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Winfried; 06-03-13 at 04:38 PM.

  2. #2
    tcs
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    Your attachment doesn't work.

    Bicycle Bolts offers security Torx screws.

    saddle semi-security.jpg
    Last edited by tcs; 06-03-13 at 05:26 AM.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    For about the same price, you can get a bag of 50-100 security torx screws from McMaster Carr. Outfit your whole stable, and maybe a couple friends' as well.

  4. #4
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    BB and some rubber cement. It's not like you'll prolly be needing to do a road-side repair.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L

  5. #5
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Pitlock offers saddle cables; it's hard to tell, but if you go here and roll the mouse over the saddle and seattube clamp areas, you can see in the pictures the cable being looped around a saddle rail, and the end-loops going around the pitlock seatpost-clamp bolt, which would secure your saddle (assuming you can trust the strength of the cable). Worst somebody could do is loosen your saddle bolt, maybe leave it dangling (or leave it loose so it falls off when you sit on it).

    I have seen other people "securing" brooks saddles with light steel cables like that, but it's a question of what do you attach the cable to?

    BTW torx screw I don't see as very secure. If a good thief doesn't have a torx on him, if he spies your bike in the same place more than one day in a row, he can count on coming back with a torx later.

    And of course there's always an angle grinder. There are horror stories out there of bike thieves at work for a surprisingly long time with tons of passersby doing nothing.

    Pitlock seems as good of a bike security solution as I've ever seen (but I've never bought them -- I'm fortunate that I only ever have to lock up in fairly safe suburban areas, and I get to roll my bike right into my cube every day, so I only ever bother with a cheap cable lock)
    Last edited by RubeRad; 06-03-13 at 04:40 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Your attachment doesn't work.
    Sorry. Corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Bicycle Bolts offers security Torx screws.
    Are they different from regular torx screws?

    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Pitlock offers saddle cables
    Thanks for the link. I'd rather secure screws than a cable.

    But torx screws are insecure since they can be removed by anyone, while secure screws by the companies above require a special key, pretty much unique to the user.

    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    BB and some rubber cement. It's not like you'll prolly be needing to do a road-side repair.
    What's "BB"?

  7. #7
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    And looks like you missed this from Pinhead; fairly clever, a secure collar that obstructs access to the saddle clamp bolt. It would make it a pain to adjust the saddle since you have to loosen two things rather than one, but it looks like an effective idea to me!

    (Thx for linking, I hadn't heard of Pinhead or Anti-vandale before, good to see Pitlock has competitors; will drive innovation forward and prices down!)

  8. #8
    Senior Member blakcloud's Avatar
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    BB is ball bearing. Find one that fits in the allen head and put some rubber cement or epoxy to hold it and fill the indent. It keeps allen keys out unless you dig at it with a pick. Usually thieves won't bother and look for easier things to steal.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ratell's Avatar
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    You can also get pit locks small enough to use as your seat post clamp bolt. Then someone needs your key to remove.

    http://www.pitlock.com/to-the-shop/c...t-02/index.php



    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Pitlock offers saddle cables; it's hard to tell, but if you go here and roll the mouse over the saddle and seattube clamp areas, you can see in the pictures the cable being looped around a saddle rail, and the end-loops going around the pitlock seatpost-clamp bolt, which would secure your saddle (assuming you can trust the strength of the cable). Worst somebody could do is loosen your saddle bolt, maybe leave it dangling (or leave it loose so it falls off when you sit on it).

    I have seen other people "securing" brooks saddles with light steel cables like that, but it's a question of what do you attach the cable to?

    BTW torx screw I don't see as very secure. If a good thief doesn't have a torx on him, if he spies your bike in the same place more than one day in a row, he can count on coming back with a torx later.

    And of course there's always an angle grinder. There are horror stories out there of bike thieves at work for a surprisingly long time with tons of passersby doing nothing.

    Pitlock seems as good of a bike security solution as I've ever seen (but I've never bought them -- I'm fortunate that I only ever have to lock up in fairly safe suburban areas, and I get to roll my bike right into my cube every day, so I only ever bother with a cheap cable lock)
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  10. #10
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    BTW torx screw I don't see as very secure. If a good thief doesn't have a torx on him, if he spies your bike in the same place more than one day in a row, he can count on coming back with a torx later.
    F'sure; security torx keys are sold in good hardware stores. But if someone is stalking your bike, staking out it's parked location, inventorying special and/or uncommon tools and techniques needed, planning to bypass easier targets and come back later with exactly what they'll need specifically to compromise your security regime...well, let's face it, you can kiss the whole bike goodbye.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  11. #11
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    And looks like you missed this from Pinhead; fairly clever, a secure collar that obstructs access to the saddle clamp bolt.
    Thanks for the link. It's a clever solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
    BB is ball bearing. Find one that fits in the allen head and put some rubber cement or epoxy to hold it and fill the indent.
    What about gluing the ball bearing and then use a blow-dryer to liquefy it when I need to remove the saddle?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    F'sure; security torx keys are sold in good hardware stores. But if someone is stalking your bike [...] well, let's face it, you can kiss the whole bike goodbye.
    Right. I'll add the torx screws to my list of solutions for this common issue.

  12. #12
    EAA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    But torx screws are insecure since they can be removed by anyone, while secure screws by the companies above require a special key, pretty much unique to the user.
    I haven't used the torx variety, but allen head security screws with that central pin are not really very secure in my experience. If we didn't have the right key with us a few light taps on the pin with a screwdriver or similar would break the central pin off, now it's just a regular, unsecure allen screw. It takes very little time and might not even attract attention like cutting a chain or grinding through a lock.
    Last edited by EAA; 06-04-13 at 05:04 AM. Reason: clarification

  13. #13
    tcs
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    Well, let's remember that the fenced value of most used saddles is nil. Saddles have been the #1 swapped out component since the 1890s, and your typical bike shop has a bin of brand new OEM take-offs they'll sell for pocket change.

    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    And looks like you missed this from Pinhead; fairly clever, a secure collar that obstructs access to the saddle clamp bolt.
    That's probably the most secure suggestion in the thread, but, and it's a big but, posters have worried thieves might carry odd, rare or multiple tools just to steal saddles. Well, a tubing cutter will silently go through an aluminum seat post in under half a minute; a battery powered sawzall makes more noise but would cut a seat post in seconds.

    If you want to protect the beloved Brooks B17 Select World Traveller that's broken in to match your derriere, lock the bike frame & wheels and take the saddle with you!
    Last edited by tcs; 06-04-13 at 11:26 AM.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

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    tcs
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    Perhaps I'm too easily entertained, but I'd buy a ticket to watch somebody attempt to arc weld a steel fixing bolt into an aluminum seat post.

    Perhaps this instead.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  16. #16
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Perhaps I'm too easily entertained, but I'd buy a ticket to watch somebody attempt to arc weld a steel fixing bolt into an aluminum seat post.

    Perhaps this instead.
    Loctite Red -- never seen that before. Looks like a great solution!

  17. #17
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Loctite Red -- never seen that before. Looks like a great solution!
    Red really puts stuff together - you'll need a torch to get it back apart, and I don't know if you want to torch near a good saddle. Maybe Loctite Green instead? Usually just hair drier heat and some persuasive torque will pop that.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  18. #18
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback.

    Just remember that saddles can be stolen by kids and tossed in a garbage can just for "fun".

    Either way, you're stuck with no saddle.

  19. #19
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    Just remember that saddles can be stolen by kids and tossed in a garbage can just for "fun".
    They can slash your tires just for "fun", too. Woe is us, yada yada.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  20. #20
    Senior Member Double0757's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Red really puts stuff together - you'll need a torch to get it back apart, and I don't know if you want to torch near a good saddle. Maybe Loctite Green instead? Usually just hair drier heat and some persuasive torque will pop that.
    Very good thread. I have been able to loosen a red loctite bolt with a 100w soldering iron. More precise way to apply heat. Double O

  21. #21
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tip. I was about to ask what the most efficient way was to unloosen the ball bearing after gluing it in place with some superglue :-)

    Edit: Elsewhere, someone mentions using acetone instead of heat.
    Last edited by Winfried; 06-07-13 at 04:16 AM.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Double0757's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    Thanks for the tip. I was about to ask what the most efficient way was to unloosen the ball bearing after gluing it in place with some superglue :-)

    Edit: Elsewhere, someone mentions using acetone instead of heat.
    With superglue, acetone or heat would work, but for loctite red, only heat would loosen it! Double O

  23. #23
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    I'll experiment and report back.

  24. #24
    my nice bike is at home kraftwerk's Avatar
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    I use a chain. around the seat rail to the seat stay. It is a lighter gauge than a bicycle chain but the same kind of links, only smaller. I think it was a small-motor chain will try to post a pic. Also a company used to make a seat post "anchor" I guess using a star nut, which had a cable connected to the water bottle cage screw inside the seat tube. Wild but effective. If u r handy u cld fab that up easily.

  25. #25
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    I use a kryptonite cable, loop it through the saddle rails, rear triangle/wheel and then u-lock the front wheel to the rack/cable.

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