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Old 06-09-13, 12:17 PM   #1
the sci guy 
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Almost got hit @ this intersection. Am I doing it right?

So on Thursday as I was coming home on my commute I almost got hit by some lady on her phone who proceeded to angrily honk and me, naturally. Here's what happened - see the map.

I'm the red arrow, at the corner, crossing in the crosswalk. The blue arrow is the lady in the truck making a left turn toward me.
I was waiting at the corner, after pushing the cross button, and waited for the cross signal to appear, when it did I started crossing.
Apparently at the same time the cross signal is given for that crosswalk, the left arrow is also given at that light, because the lady started careening at me.
She didn't see me until she was about 30 feet away, and slammed on her brakes and her horn. Her window was down so I just simply said "I have the cross signal."

My question is - shouldn't she yield to me in the crosswalk (just like you would if it were people walking across), especially since she's making the left turn?

IMO, I am pretty much chalking it up to her not paying attention and then getting angry because she doesn't know she made the mistake.

What say you, BFers?
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Old 06-09-13, 12:28 PM   #2
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Car needs to yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:31 PM   #3
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Is the crosswalk intended for pedestrians or both peds and bicycles? Any clues in the signage or local laws? Since there is a greenway there, it must be for both and motorists must be sure the crosswalk is clear of anybody before proceeding.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:33 PM   #4
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A driver should yield to anyone in a crosswalk.

Where I live if she had hit you while you were riding in the crosswalk you would be ticketed for cycling in a crosswalk and she might be cited for an improper turn. A cyclist round here got a visit and was ticketed by the police at the hospital after being hit at a crosswalk. Rules might be different in TN. I like Knoxville BTW
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Old 06-09-13, 12:40 PM   #5
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Is the crosswalk intended for pedestrians or both peds and bicycles? Any clues in the signage or local laws? Since there is a greenway there, it must be for both and motorists must be sure the crosswalk is clear of anybody before proceeding.
i would imagine both. the greenway continues on the opposite side of the road (that I was crossing too), you can see it go down and curve off intothe grass at the bottom middle of the pic - that's where I go.

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A driver should yield to anyone in a crosswalk.

Where I live if she had hit you while you were riding in the crosswalk you would be ticketed for cycling in a crosswalk and she might be cited for an improper turn. A cyclist round here got a visit and was ticketed by the police at the hospital after being hit at a crosswalk. Rules might be different in TN. I like Knoxville BTW
I suppose I could stay in the go straight lane, and cross to the opposite side that way since I'm heading to that corner. It just seems like the crosswalk makes more sense. But maybe not?
Also, ticketed for riding in a crosswalk is stupid IMO. I'd have to say each intersection is different, and depending on where you need to go sometimes a bike just can't, or shouldn't?, stay completely in the road to bomb through a busy intersection - especially if, like me here, you're not going through it to the road on the otherside, but to the corner to get on a path.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:43 PM   #6
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I'll let someone else find the laws but it's generally not a good idea to cross in cross walks. The reason is that cars aren't looking for bikes in cross walks, they're looking for people. I've had close calls with other cyclists crossing at cross walks when I'm riding my bike. Something is messed up with that equipment if it's giving the signal to cross at the same time as left arrow though. It looks you could position yourself to the right of through-traffic so I don't even see why you think it's beneficial to use the cross walk.

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Old 06-09-13, 12:44 PM   #7
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Why did you opt for the crosswalk instead of staying with the traffic on Lonas Drive?
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Old 06-09-13, 12:47 PM   #8
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Why did you opt for the crosswalk instead of staying with the traffic on Lonas Drive?
because it connected to the corner sidewalk/greenway i am going to. but i suppose so does the road in a fashion.
i've only done the commute twice (different than my normal one since i am going to a different school)

i'll try staying in the street this week and cross the intersection to the corner.

oh and for what it's worth, I come down Old Weisgarber on the left to get to that intersection.
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Old 06-09-13, 12:53 PM   #9
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She was on her phone, wasn't paying attention to the road ahead of her, didn't yield to pedestrians or cyclists, and honked at you for her mistakes.

Sounds like it's her problem. Continue as usual, you did nothing wrong here.
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Old 06-09-13, 01:36 PM   #10
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I was wondering where you came from, a lot of options. I'd have gone straight with the traffic. Law around here is you must dismount and walk in a crosswalk. I'd bet there was no left turn arrow for her, just a left with the light.
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Old 06-09-13, 02:06 PM   #11
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I would have used the travel lane.

While a motorist is SUPPOSED to yield to those in the crosswalk, it's just easier to use the travel lane.
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Old 06-09-13, 02:26 PM   #12
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There are so many gray areas in urban cycling, and this appears to be one of them.

If you had gone into the traffic lane, you would be "that moron who thinks he's a car", and by riding in the crosswalk it's "See, cyclists never follow the rules!"

Just do what feels safe, and don't worry about winning the respect or approval of cagers, because that is a pointless endeavor.
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Old 06-09-13, 02:40 PM   #13
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Check your state laws. In OR, a cyclist in a crosswalk is considered a pedestrian. We used to have to maintain a walking speed, but the legislature got rid of that requirement and just restricted us to reasonable speed, which seems reasonable.

If you are not allowed to use the crosswalk, or if you lose your right-of-way by doing so, then that path set-up is a major fail. They would never build an intersection in such a way that motorists can't get through, so they shouldn't be doing it to cyclists.
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Old 06-09-13, 02:53 PM   #14
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Apparently at the same time the cross signal is given for that crosswalk, the left arrow is also given at that light, because the lady started careening at me.
Are you sure this is right? Arrow almost always you've been given the right-of-way and they wouldn't put pedestrians in the path of cars in which they've given this arrow to, especially in a left turn situation.

If that is how the lights are configured, I'd email/call whomever is in charge of traffic control there. Giving the WALK sign along with a left turn arrow that will cross the crosswalk at the same time is quite literally a death trap.
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Old 06-09-13, 02:56 PM   #15
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Are you sure this is right? Arrow almost always you've been given the right-of-way and they wouldn't put pedestrians in the path of cars in which they've given this arrow to, especially in a left turn situation.

If that is how the lights are configured, I'd email/call whomever is in charge of traffic control there. Giving the WALK sign along with a left turn arrow that will cross the crosswalk at the same time is quite literally a death trap.
i'm not positive it was an arrow. i only noticed her barreling at me, and not if the other cars next to her were proceeding straight at the same time on a regular green light. i'll see if there's a way i can find out.
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Old 06-09-13, 02:59 PM   #16
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^^ that's exactly what I was just scratching my head over. Seems like a huge liability for the city to have a green arrow for cars to proceed into a crosswalk where at the same time pedestrians are given the go ahead to cross.

My money is on the idea that she was distracted and began the turn when the other other cars next to her got the green to go straight through the intersection. In other words, she probably ran a red light.
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Old 06-09-13, 03:03 PM   #17
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I really dislike riding through crosswalks. They're often a bad situation all around, and I think, locally at least, they are where the majority of bike/car injury collisions occur. The local law is that cyclists must dismount and walk their bike across intersection crosswalks, even if they're part of a bike path, yet people rarely do. I usually just pull my feet out of the pedal clips and onto the back of the pedals and ride about 6 mph so I am moving about the same speed as a jogger and can bail easily if need be. Furthermore, I'm watching every car at the intersection like a hawk. Though there are a couple of hairy intersections around town that I do sometimes dismount and walk though because there's always some idiot making a turn and not paying attention...

Regarding right-of-way, you were in the right, she was in the wrong, but none of that would have really mattered had there been a collision. At least you and your bike made it safely through, and now you know that intersection deserves a bit more scrutiny.
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Old 06-09-13, 03:19 PM   #18
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Left-turners have lowest priority. She was in the wrong. If you want full protection of the pedestrian crossing though, walk. Going with the traffic along Lonas would have been where you should be if you are pedaling across the intersection.
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Old 06-09-13, 03:23 PM   #19
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.... Going with the traffic along Lonas would have been where you should be if you are pedaling across the intersection.
That's how I see it. Also the safest way in my experience.
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Old 06-09-13, 03:32 PM   #20
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A driver should yield to anyone in a crosswalk.
+ 1

That said, one still needs to still be wary of the arrogant,entitled and distracted motorist.


I avoid using crosswalks when riding my bike, and I would have been positioned in the straight through lane, where most motorists have their attention focused for traffic moving faster than a ped's pace.

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Old 06-09-13, 03:35 PM   #21
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i'm not positive it was an arrow. i only noticed her barreling at me, and not if the other cars next to her were proceeding straight at the same time on a regular green light. i'll see if there's a way i can find out.
Double check it when you ride by again. Either she had a green circle (meaning she still has to yield), a yellow arrow (rare but becoming more popular, she still has to yield), or a green arrow which would be bad traffic light planning for sure. Also as someone already mentioned, she could have simply been running the left turn red light.
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Old 06-09-13, 03:56 PM   #22
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Apparently at the same time the cross signal is given for that crosswalk, the left arrow is also given at that light, because the lady started careening at me.
The traffic engineer was at fault.

More likely, the "lady" had a green light and figured she owned the road. I see this happening all the time at an intersection close to work. They figure they can cow you into letting them by. Over time, I've developed an instinct for cars that are going to do this.

So I bought an Air Zounds so I could zap these cars as they pass by.
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Old 06-09-13, 04:15 PM   #23
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According to this: http://www.knoxtrans.org/plans/bikeprog/hb_view.pdf "Tennessee Traffic Laws Relating to Bicycles"

Quote:
• Sidewalk RidingThe City of Knoxville and Knox County allow bicycles to be operated on sidewalks
and in crosswalks, but bicyclists must act like pedestrians instead of vehicles.
Bicyclists must yield to pedestrians and give audible warnings before passing
pedestrians. Bicyclists are not allowed on sidewalks where they are prohibited by
official traffic control devices. Other jurisdictions, including Farragut, Maryville,
Alcoa and Blount County, do not have ordinances related to bicycles on sidewalks.
Th is typically is interpreted to mean that it is allowed, but bicyclists should yield to
pedestrians and be respectful
that's all I could find that mentions crosswalks.
so if it says I must act like a pedestrian does that mean I have to dismount and walk across? (which is fine, I just want to know the right thing to do.)

i think i'll just use the straight lane in the road to cross this week and see how that goes.
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Old 06-09-13, 05:17 PM   #24
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When in the crosswalk, "acting like a pedestrian" should give you MORE rights. Pedestrians should ALWAYS have the right of way, in any situation, especially if they have the light and are in a crosswalk. Lady in the car was 100.00000% wrong.
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Old 06-09-13, 05:57 PM   #25
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Why is this question being posted to a cycling forum?
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