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  1. #26
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    "cant we all just get along?" Honestly, no. Most days my commute feels like a war. Sure I pick the busiest streets to ride on, but they are the most direct / fastest route to my destination and the flattest. I average at least 2 major problems (something that could have jeopardized my safety) each way, so 4 a day. I have never been hit, but have had MANY close calls, even though I follow the law to the letter.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by harshbarj View Post
    "cant we all just get along?" Honestly, no. Most days my commute feels like a war. Sure I pick the busiest streets to ride on, but they are the most direct / fastest route to my destination and the flattest. I average at least 2 major problems (something that could have jeopardized my safety) each way, so 4 a day. I have never been hit, but have had MANY close calls, even though I follow the law to the letter.
    I think every commuter feels the same way, in a car, or on a bicycle.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
    Maybe because we really do inconvenience them? We're slower traffic and no one wants to be delayed by a road user they see as silly, especially when we're usually a VERY small percentage of traffic. It's the same reason they'd get annoyed stuck behind a horse and buggy. In most areas we make up less than 1% of road users...we're a very small minority that can have a disproportionate effect on traffic - why do you expect to be universally loved?

    I try to ride in a way that inconveniences others as little as possible...obviously my safety comes first, but I also try to be considerate and I try to plan a route that minimizes my effect on others.

    I'd wager more cyclists spend time worrying about them than they do worrying about us.
    I think stop lights delay motorists far more than the couple of seconds a cyclist might... I think a lot of the "hate" comes from simply having to deal with "the other;" something other than another car... the motorist has to actually think for a moment... that takes drivers out of their stupor.

  4. #29
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underground View Post
    I have noticed a few things when I drive a vehicle. First off is distance. People think distance is a ton of time being saved. What they don't realize is that at 60mph, a football field is only a few seconds. So while they may be ahead by 100yds, they are really only ahead by what, maybe 5-10 seconds or so? At least around here, many are trying to get that distance advantage whenever they can. If they are being passed, even if it is only by 2 cars, they feel like they are loosing so much time. When you really think about it, it makes zero sense.

    So if a driver has to brake for a cyclist, and 5 cars passed, all they can think about is "I WOULD HAVE BEEN UP THERE BY THAT CAR IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS (*$&%(*$&)(*#&$ CYCLIST!!!" The whole distance thing again. I used to be that way when driving, until I counted just how much, in time, I lost because of something. Once I realized that what I once thought was a ton of time, only was really 10-20 seconds, I stopped caring. Now, I won't stay behind someone who is going slow for no reason. If I can pass, I'll pass. But I will not feel rushed to make that pass. If I am more considerate, I only lose maybe a couple of minutes on my commute home by car. So is it worth getting angry over? Heck no.

    I really dislike the whole American "I must get to my destination as if I had to be there yesterday" thing. Most of the people around me are very considerate when I am on the bicycle. Then again, there is always one person that is impatient and will buzz me somewhat close to show how much I'm getting in their way.
    +1000 That pretty much says it all.

  5. #30
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
    I think every commuter feels the same way, in a car, or on a bicycle.
    I don't.

    In a car I am well aware of cyclists... and give them plenty of room and signal my intentions for everyone (I rarely see other motorists signal). I also take my time and don't play "rush to the next light to test my brakes." There really is no point in getting frustrated while sitting down, listening to the radio and easily moving along... (it takes so little effort to drive) Yet so many motorists work to get "just one more car ahead..." and speed to the next stop as if their lives were in some danger or something. (zombies chasing them perhaps...??)

    It's all one big queue, you will get there, eventually, and if you are on a schedule, you should have left earlier.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenturionIM View Post
    Yes, I notice exact the same thing while driving. Another example would be people killing to get in front of you when there is a red light, just so they can test their brakes.
    I'd be pretty wealthy if I had a penny for every time a car/truck "buzzed" by me really close, only to slam on their brakes at a red light and see me ride up next to them a few seconds later.

  7. #32
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
    +2 - and I can do without the "why do the evil fat polluters hate us?" threads. We're different traffic users with different needs...I don't them expect them to love me. I expect them to behave responsibly.
    Me? I hate over-the-top hysterical rhetoric.

  8. #33
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    For me, people who behave rudely on the road do it because they can get away with it. I endured a few in a car and many more on a bike. About six months ago I decided to call one in to the police (recorded their plate #) just to see what they would do. I mostly got a lecture from a *****y officer about more important things than a bicyclist being harassed. Only when I mentioned an earlier incident (didn't get plate #) near the same location when the driver threw coffee on my backpack did he become more professional.
    It does get tiresome dealing with their childish behavior. So when I get that negative energy from them, I just turn it positive and go on a bike ride.

  9. #34
    Senior Member jowilson's Avatar
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    Drivers don't care for others until they realize they just killed or seriously injured someone. So until every cager hits one cyclist, pedestrian, or animal the answer is: NO, we can't just "get along".
    The sun'll come out tomorrow.

  10. #35
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jowilson View Post
    Drivers don't care for others until they realize they just killed or seriously injured someone. So until every cager hits one cyclist, pedestrian, or animal the answer is: NO, we can't just "get along".
    Maybe you can start a militia group from your Critical Mass rides and fight back against the "cagers"?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    I don't.

    In a car I am well aware of cyclists... and give them plenty of room and signal my intentions for everyone (I rarely see other motorists signal). I also take my time and don't play "rush to the next light to test my brakes." There really is no point in getting frustrated while sitting down, listening to the radio and easily moving along... (it takes so little effort to drive) Yet so many motorists work to get "just one more car ahead..." and speed to the next stop as if their lives were in some danger or something. (zombies chasing them perhaps...??)

    It's all one big queue, you will get there, eventually, and if you are on a schedule, you should have left earlier.
    My bad. I should have said,"The vast majority of commuters", because all would even imply myself, which I just don't fit in. I try to stay away from throughways and arterials, because I just hate dealing with the rat race and scrabble of dealing with idiots on the roads (Autos, motorcycles, and even bicycles).

  12. #37
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    I agree that cyclists actually have less of an effect on traffic than the same person driving would. A single car trying to turn left on a 2 lane road might hold up all traffic on that road at a standstill for a minute or more. That one incident will cause more car-minutes of delay than all the bicycles that pass through a town in a week would probably cause. Yet nobody complains that people shouldn't be allowed to turn left.

    Also, I'm sure everyone realized this already, but people who say that cyclists do not pay their share of taxes are wrong. Cyclists actually pay a disproportionately HIGH rate of taxes that go to road construction and repair, if you count only the roads that cyclists are actually allowed to use (IE remove expressways from the equation).
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  13. #38
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    What is difficult for me to comprehend is why do some drivers put an innocent bike rider in mortal danger? At least 1-2x a week I encounter a driver who is not going to let me (1) slow them down , or (2) get to a turn before they do. If they are mad at me in the road, they speed up and move within inches. If they want to turn in front of me, the fly by and swerve, with me on the brakes. I love to commute, but my roommate says I have a death wish.
    Over 55 and not lost yet!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrg View Post
    What is difficult for me to comprehend is why do some drivers put an innocent bike rider in mortal danger? At least 1-2x a week I encounter a driver who is not going to let me (1) slow them down , or (2) get to a turn before they do. If they are mad at me in the road, they speed up and move within inches. If they want to turn in front of me, the fly by and swerve, with me on the brakes. I love to commute, but my roommate says I have a death wish.
    Those same drivers tend to put innocent drivers in mortal danger, as well; racing through red lights that just changed, not yielding properly, make unsafe lane changes, fail to signal, etc etc.

  15. #40
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    they will get used to you the more they see you. be a good example. I found adding a strobe to my left drop bar helped get more courtesy room. get to learn the route better and how you interact with the drivers at certain points in the ride, like intersections, etc. they will get used to you. there will always be the loose cannons tho - the young males in jeeps, the older rednecks in pickups, and the crazies who drive US Postal service flatbeds carrying tiny mail trucks. those guys are the worst. garbage trucks and cement mixers are surprisingly polite and courteous. good luck out there. stay friendly.
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  16. #41
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    I think I figured it out. There are so many bicyclists out there (around here at least) that do not follow the rules of the road. There's always that one "guy" who goes the wrong way on a one way, rides on the sidewalk going 10 MPH, cuts in front of traffic to get to the other side of the road, and blows through a stop sign. Yesterday, I come to a 4 way stop, and the vehicle had the right of way they just stopped there and stared at me. I gave the hand signal of stopping but yet he still waited. I had to give a head wag to get him to go first, as he had the right of way and I was stopping anyway because....wait for it, there's a stop sign!

    I don't think motorists know that we have to follow the road rules like they do. But then there's always one that just doesn't care and thinks they rule the road.

  17. #42
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nudave2005 View Post
    I think I figured it out. There are so many bicyclists out there (around here at least) that do not follow the rules of the road. There's always that one "guy" who goes the wrong way on a one way, rides on the sidewalk going 10 MPH, cuts in front of traffic to get to the other side of the road, and blows through a stop sign. Yesterday, I come to a 4 way stop, and the vehicle had the right of way they just stopped there and stared at me. I gave the hand signal of stopping but yet he still waited. I had to give a head wag to get him to go first, as he had the right of way and I was stopping anyway because....wait for it, there's a stop sign!

    I don't think motorists know that we have to follow the road rules like they do. But then there's always one that just doesn't care and thinks they rule the road.
    You're right, we should all follow the rules like they all do. Wait..

  18. #43
    Senior Member g0tr00t's Avatar
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    ....because I look better than them or their spouse in spandex.

    Funny thing that I have noticed in the past 2 years that I have been riding to work....everyone that has cut me off, honked, etc...etc...etc... has ALWAYS been overweight. The few that have let me go and waved at me I could clearly see were in shape and probably an athlete themselves.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
    You're right, we should all follow the rules like they all do. Wait..
    I see a whole lot more cyclists running reds, and blowing stop signs than motorists. In fact, I tailed two cyclists yesterday, up to red lights. One stopped, looked, and went on. The second just blew the red.

    I've only seen two cars in the past 4 years blow reds.

  20. #45
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
    I see a whole lot more cyclists running reds, and blowing stop signs than motorists. In fact, I tailed two cyclists yesterday, up to red lights. One stopped, looked, and went on. The second just blew the red.

    I've only seen two cars in the past 4 years blow reds.
    How many cars did you see driving below or at the speed limit? How many cars did you see not signal their intention? How many rolled stops (a stop is a full stop check both directions and proceed)? How many pedestrians "jay walk"?

    Nobody follows every rule of the road.

    You want to focus on someone who blew a red on their bike and isn't hurting anyone, then sure, do that. But make sure to point your finger and sigh at everyone weaving lanes without signalling and going 20% over the maximum speed limit or rolling through stop signs... they aren't hurting anyone (at the moment) either.

    I should go take a video of the highway offramp thats a few steps from here, I could count two cars blowing the red light @ 100kph (50kph zone) while pedestrians are entering the crosswalk. I could also take a video of cyclists going against the one way or rolling stop signs. An accident hasn't happened anywhere near here in the past month or so, so maybe the rules are just a guideline and not to be followed to the T?

    An intelligent person would look at it and adapt the rules and infrastructure to correct the problems of all users, but this is of course North America and we need to move as many cars through as effortlessly as we can.

    Sorry I mean, cyclists roll through stop signs, why should we pay attention to them as legitimate road users?? I saw one just today! Scofflaw scum slowing my commute!

  21. #46
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0tr00t View Post
    ....because I look better than them or their spouse in spandex.

    Funny thing that I have noticed in the past 2 years that I have been riding to work....everyone that has cut me off, honked, etc...etc...etc... has ALWAYS been overweight. The few that have let me go and waved at me I could clearly see were in shape and probably an athlete themselves.
    haha

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
    How many cars did you see driving below or at the speed limit? How many cars did you see not signal their intention? How many rolled stops (a stop is a full stop check both directions and proceed)? How many pedestrians "jay walk"?
    Generally, people follow the posted limits (Speeding is strictly enforced here).

    Nobody follows every rule of the road.
    True. But, the law is the law. If you expect motorists to adhere to the laws regarding safe passing distance, etc etc; then you need to be following the same set of laws.

    You want to focus on someone who blew a red on their bike and isn't hurting anyone, then sure, do that. But make sure to point your finger and sigh at everyone weaving lanes without signalling and going 20% over the maximum speed limit or rolling through stop signs... they aren't hurting anyone (at the moment) either.
    Not everything "hurts someone". The laws don't read,"It's ok, if you don't hurt someone". The laws of the road are there to PREVENT people from getting hurt.

    I should go take a video of the highway offramp thats a few steps from here, I could count two cars blowing the red light @ 100kph (50kph zone) while pedestrians are entering the crosswalk. I could also take a video of cyclists going against the one way or rolling stop signs. An accident hasn't happened anywhere near here in the past month or so, so maybe the rules are just a guideline and not to be followed to the T?
    So, you caught 2 violations of the laws, so that somehow means it's ok to violate the law for everyone?

    An intelligent person would look at it and adapt the rules and infrastructure to correct the problems of all users, but this is of course North America and we need to move as many cars through as effortlessly as we can.
    I'm not sure you've noticed, but the average American is fecking stupid. And, half of Americans are stupider than that.

    Sorry I mean, cyclists roll through stop signs, why should we pay attention to them as legitimate road users?? I saw one just today! Scofflaw scum slowing my commute!
    If we keep preaching it's ok to violate the laws of the road here, how can we expect motorist to not violate the laws of the road concerning cyclists?

  23. #48
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0tr00t View Post
    ....because I look better than them or their spouse in spandex.
    No pictures? Certainly someone so certain/proud of his/her appearance should be glad to provide a few pictures of his/her fine torso flattered by spandex.

  24. #49
    Senior Member g0tr00t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    No pictures? Certainly someone so certain/proud of his/her appearance should be glad to provide a few pictures of his/her fine torso flattered by spandex.
    A horrible grainy picture. I was about 170lbs when I took this picture.

    I went from 210lbs to 167lbs (all from bike riding and eating better). Then I went back into weightlifting once the injuries from years of overloaded weightlifting subsided and am back to about 174lbs.

    .jpg

  25. #50
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
    Generally, people follow the posted limits (Speeding is strictly enforced here).



    True. But, the law is the law. If you expect motorists to adhere to the laws regarding safe passing distance, etc etc; then you need to be following the same set of laws.



    Not everything "hurts someone". The laws don't read,"It's ok, if you don't hurt someone". The laws of the road are there to PREVENT people from getting hurt.



    So, you caught 2 violations of the laws, so that somehow means it's ok to violate the law for everyone?



    I'm not sure you've noticed, but the average American is fecking stupid. And, half of Americans are stupider than that.



    If we keep preaching it's ok to violate the laws of the road here, how can we expect motorist to not violate the laws of the road concerning cyclists?
    I'm pointing out a fallacy in singling one group out and holding them to a set of standards while ignoring the fact that every other road user isn't held to these same standards.

    If you step back and look at it as a whole, everyone is breaking minor rules, so why is one group nitpicking the other?

    The bank robber is shaking his head at the shoplifter.

    You either crack down on everyone (nobody wins), or you adjust the rules of the game to suit the players..

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