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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
    You either crack down on everyone (nobody wins), or you adjust the rules of the game to suit the players..
    +1 for that.

    I'm fortunate here that drivers often overreact and really go way too far to pass (not good for single lane roads), so generally, there are little issues with riding on the road.

    But if drivers in the States are blowing reds all the time, maybe cyclists shouldn't get mixed up into that too much. Don't know how that could happen though.

  2. #52
    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan s View Post
    I don't think cars have feelings...
    I think otherwise.

    Christine.jpg

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
    I'm pointing out a fallacy in singling one group out and holding them to a set of standards while ignoring the fact that every other road user isn't held to these same standards.
    I'm not singling out any group. I have noted far more cyclists run reds than cars do. In fact, here on this very forum, we have videos of cyclists doing so, people bragging about it, and people saying,"Meh, it's fine!"

    I propose we expect motorists to abide by the same laws that cyclists abide by, and vice versa. No one group gets a free pass from breaking the law.

    If you step back and look at it as a whole, everyone is breaking minor rules, so why is one group nitpicking the other?

    The bank robber is shaking his head at the shoplifter.

    You either crack down on everyone (nobody wins), or you adjust the rules of the game to suit the players..
    Right, we need to crack down on everyone. Even ticketing cyclists who run reds, and run stop lights.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
    I think otherwise.

    Christine.jpg
    Or this Were-Car.jpg

  5. #55
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    I run reds on my bicycle regularly. Quite often I stop and then roll. But if I have gobs of visibility I don't stop. It's all about my safety and not obstructing traffic. If there is other traffic at the light I take turns with everybody else. But I start my commute about 5 a.m. There's not much traffic on the road at all. Many of the lights won't change because the sensor does not pick up a bicycle.

    If I'm being safe and I'm not delaying other people unfairly then I see nothing wrong with it.

    I see plenty of rude drivers like others do based on the comments I see on this thread. But I also see a lot of tolerant and friendly drivers - mostly female that wave and smile. The bigger and busier roads have the least of that. I do some roads like that but most of my (18 mile) commute is quiet surface streets thru neighborhoods. I found great bike routes by the way by using the TomTom app on my iPhone.

  6. #56
    Hi, folks sdold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jloco View Post
    Why do they hate us?
    Some of these answers are way too complicated, it's because drivers think we're getting in the way. If we ride single-file (when cars are around) and stop at stop signs (when cars are around), it will alleviate some of this. Beyond that, drivers are going to be annoyed with us and we just have to live with it. That's just the way people are.
    Last edited by sdold; 06-19-13 at 11:43 AM.
    -----
    "Some people canít tandem. It doesnít make them bad people, just not quite as fortunate"
    --Rick Jorgensen, davistandems.com

  7. #57
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UberGeek View Post
    Right, we need to crack down on everyone. Even ticketing cyclists who run reds, and run stop lights.
    Just add it as a side project to the highly successful wars on terror/drugs.

  8. #58
    Senior Member kmv2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdold View Post
    Some of these answers are way too complicated, it's because drivers think we're getting in the way. If we ride single-file (when cars are around) and stop at stop signs (when cars are around), it will alleviate some of this. Beyond that, drivers are going to be annoyed with us and we just have to live with it. That's just the way people are.
    I stop at reds/stop signs because I'm a smug ******bag. I think it actually enrages them more, tbh.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
    Just add it as a side project to the highly successful wars on terror/drugs.
    Meh, it's just a matter of enforcement of current laws.

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