Encounter with LA Sheriff on my commute to work.
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LASD_News LA County Sheriff 23 Jul
Sharrows are Shared Lane Markings indicating bicyclist may use full lane
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The LA County Sheriff's office posted the above legal opinion. And, the legal opinion of the LA County Sheriff's office usurps your personal opinion.
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I live in the country so i don't have that problem but i can see where the Auto Drivers could get a bit aggrevated but there is a passing lane....If the parking spots were empty it would be one thing to ride the right edge but full of cars???? No wAY....The chance of somebody opening a car door in your path hurts like hell....I get aggravated as a car driver when i get behing a moped or a group of Cyclists on a country road that take most of the lane but know that i am that cyclist sometimes and i give them room and pass when safe....The laws are the laws and even as a LEO if you don't enforce them correctly like this LEO did the he was not doing his job properley... The damn bike lane symbols in the middle of the street was a pretty good hint that you can ride there....Not sure about the impeding traffic thing... i didn't read the whole law thingy also....Good for you to stand your ground and keeping your cool.
#105
Senior Member
I had a State trooper come up to me today while riding in asking me to merge onto the sidewalk because he didn't want me to get hit. I think there were three cars in sight, including him, none actually near me. He went away pretty quick, though. This is good, because State troopers at least in St. Mary's will always find something.
All this makes me question why people who drive get so pissy about hold ups. I don't when I drive. You are sitting in a magic go box that transports you at speeds up and beyond a mile per minute for absolutely no real effort. You should be all smiles, all the time.
M.
All this makes me question why people who drive get so pissy about hold ups. I don't when I drive. You are sitting in a magic go box that transports you at speeds up and beyond a mile per minute for absolutely no real effort. You should be all smiles, all the time.
M.
#106
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So, if someone has a different opinion than you, and expresses it, they are a troll? This is a forum where people express their opinions in a respectful manner, without name calling, which you are apparently incapable of.
#107
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Without really knowing the area and just judging from the video, I thought the OP was riding too centered as well. I'm not commenting on legality, and I think the sheriff was out of line as well, but I would have been further towards the sidewalk given what I saw. I don't think it was an especially big deal, there was another lane to pass and traffic wasn't heavy, but I rarely ride in the center of a lane unless there is a definite need. I didn't see one here. I wouldn't call the OPs riding position rude or out of line, but it's not what I would have done given what I saw on video.
I don't know the area, I don't know the customs or culture...or even the speed limit along that road...so my opinion's value is not especially high.
I don't know the area, I don't know the customs or culture...or even the speed limit along that road...so my opinion's value is not especially high.
#108
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Without really knowing the area and just judging from the video, I thought the OP was riding too centered as well. I'm not commenting on legality, and I think the sheriff was out of line as well, but I would have been further towards the sidewalk given what I saw. I don't think it was an especially big deal, there was another lane to pass and traffic wasn't heavy, but I rarely ride in the center of a lane unless there is a definite need. I didn't see one here. I wouldn't call the OPs riding position rude or out of line, but it's not what I would have done given what I saw on video.
I don't know the area, I don't know the customs or culture...or even the speed limit along that road...so my opinion's value is not especially high.
I don't know the area, I don't know the customs or culture...or even the speed limit along that road...so my opinion's value is not especially high.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit ridiculous.
#109
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My sentiments, as well.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit riduculous.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit riduculous.
Making matters worse, where it's two lanes, there are parts where it becomes a turn lane and some of the markings change. I think it's very poorly thought out and it must be confusing to drivers as well as to cyclists. I know I've had a few problems on that road and I don't think the markings helped the situation; now I just avoid 10th all together.
#110
Eric C.
Having an opinion on where to travel on an unoccupied lane is fine, and I may disagree but can respect that. I was specifically referring to the inability to believe that a sharrow indicates where a bike should travel, despite the agencies who are putting them on the street publicly indicating that is the case. You may not agree with their decision, but that is just proven fact that that's what a sharrow indicates and no longer in the realm of opinion. You can make a case that that isn't publicized enough for people to know, but it's clear that's the intent.
I would say that I usually travel to the right if there is enough room to share the lane, or even if the road is so narrow that I still "take the lane" by traveling on the right. When there is just enough room that cars try to squeeze in, or if there are parked cars ahead then I feel it is safest to take the lane. Provided I'm traveling near their speed, or it's a short distance. Otherwise I look for an alternate route. I think it should be re-iterated that this is the overwhelming advice of bike safety experts.
#111
Super-spreader
My sentiments, as well.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit ridiculous.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit ridiculous.
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Without really knowing the area and just judging from the video, I thought the OP was riding too centered as well. I'm not commenting on legality, and I think the sheriff was out of line as well, but I would have been further towards the sidewalk given what I saw. I don't think it was an especially big deal, there was another lane to pass and traffic wasn't heavy, but I rarely ride in the center of a lane unless there is a definite need. I didn't see one here. I wouldn't call the OPs riding position rude or out of line, but it's not what I would have done given what I saw on video.
I don't know the area, I don't know the customs or culture...or even the speed limit along that road...so my opinion's value is not especially high.
I don't know the area, I don't know the customs or culture...or even the speed limit along that road...so my opinion's value is not especially high.
My sentiments, as well.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit ridiculous.
I would add that throwing down a bunch of paint on the road that doesn't really say what it's meant to say, is counterproductive, in my opinion. I'm also not speaking as to the legal issues that may or may not be involved, but the safety aspect. Setting up a connect the dots scheme that bikes are supposed to follow, if that is indeed the intent, is a bit ridiculous.
#113
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I would guess, if you conducted a poll, that 99.9% of the people looking at that symbol would say it indicates the direction bikes are supposed to travel in that lane. In BF-speak, no salmoning allowed.
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Bicycles are supposed to ride in the direction of traffic - period - all roads, all the time. That makes the marking useless.
Locally, with few exceptions, the roads that have sharrows are roads where one or more of the exceptions to FRAP exist along the entire stretch. A road with substandard width is an exception to FRAP and a condition where cyclist are expected to take the lane.
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But that doesn't make sense at all.
Bicycles are supposed to ride in the direction of traffic - period - all roads, all the time. That makes the marking useless.
Locally, with few exceptions, the roads that have sharrows are roads where one or more of the exceptions to FRAP exist along the entire stretch. A road with substandard width is an exception to FRAP and a condition where cyclist are expected to take the lane.
Bicycles are supposed to ride in the direction of traffic - period - all roads, all the time. That makes the marking useless.
Locally, with few exceptions, the roads that have sharrows are roads where one or more of the exceptions to FRAP exist along the entire stretch. A road with substandard width is an exception to FRAP and a condition where cyclist are expected to take the lane.
As far as the OP's situation, I would have moved to the right once there were no parked cars. I think that's what the cop was trying to explain. Sharrows don't give you the right to ride down the center of the lane; you still have to ride FRAP.
#116
Eric C.
From the wiki on shared lane markings.
Alert motorists of the lateral location bicyclists are likely to occupy within the traveled way
https://ladotbikeblog.wordpress.com/2...rows-are-good/
Also from LADOT:
Sharrows be implemented no less than 12 feet from the curb. Beyond this minimum distance, however, Sharrows should also be aligned in a way that creates a straight line of travel for bicyclists. This helps ensure a bicyclist doesn’t weave as street widths change, making them safer and ensuring drivers will be able to react to bicyclists more predictably.
Alert motorists of the lateral location bicyclists are likely to occupy within the traveled way
https://ladotbikeblog.wordpress.com/2...rows-are-good/
Also from LADOT:
Sharrows be implemented no less than 12 feet from the curb. Beyond this minimum distance, however, Sharrows should also be aligned in a way that creates a straight line of travel for bicyclists. This helps ensure a bicyclist doesn’t weave as street widths change, making them safer and ensuring drivers will be able to react to bicyclists more predictably.
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At least in L.A.,most of the cops don't know the traffic laws for bicycles,traffic cops or not.They know so little about traffic laws for bicycles,I carry a copy of it for them to read when they hassle me.
When they want to see my ID,I also show them a copy of the bicycle laws for California.
If you saw me riding down the street and didn't know anything about bicycles,I'm guessing you would think I'm the homeless type.Long hair down to my waist,giant beard,greasy hair,dirty clothes( I do machine work for a living),rides a bike.....sounds homeless,even to me....
The way I look,the cops probably think I'm a homeless drunk and riding a stolen bike down the middle of the street and don't know it......
When they want to see my ID,I also show them a copy of the bicycle laws for California.
If you saw me riding down the street and didn't know anything about bicycles,I'm guessing you would think I'm the homeless type.Long hair down to my waist,giant beard,greasy hair,dirty clothes( I do machine work for a living),rides a bike.....sounds homeless,even to me....
The way I look,the cops probably think I'm a homeless drunk and riding a stolen bike down the middle of the street and don't know it......
Last edited by Booger1; 07-26-13 at 10:18 AM.
#118
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Shared lane marking
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A shared-lane marking or sharrow[SUP][1][/SUP] is a street marking installed at locations in Australia, Canada, and the United States. This marking is placed in the center of a travel lane to indicate that a bicyclist may use the full lane.
According to the US Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, shared-lane markings are used to:
- Assist bicyclists with lateral positioning in a shared lane with on-street parallel parking in order to reduce the chance of a bicyclist’s impacting the open door of a parked vehicle;
- Assist bicyclists with lateral positioning in lanes that are too narrow for a motor vehicle and a bicycle to travel side by side within the same traffic lane;
- Alert motorists of the lateral location bicyclists are likely to occupy within the traveled way;
- Encourage safe passing of bicyclists by motorists; and Reduce the incidence of wrong-way bicycling.
Last edited by FenderTL5; 07-26-13 at 09:56 AM.
#119
Eric C.
The problem I have with that is you are never sure how long there won't be parked cars. Presumably the sharrows are there because it's legal for cars to be parked on the side of the road. You can only see so far up the road, not to mention that one of the cars passing you could go ahead and park. Maybe your experience is different but I've found if cars are allowed to park on the side of the road eventually you'll come up on one. I doubt the lane had enough room for a parked car, a bike, and a stream of moving cars, all in the right lane. If it is not legal for cars to be parked AND there is enough room to safely share the lane then I agree, move to the right. But it's not clear that either of those criteria where met here.
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Cyclists are also supposed to stay out of the door zone, thus making the other purpose of sharrow markings useless.
As far as the OP's situation, I would have moved to the right once there were no parked cars. I think that's what the cop was trying to explain. Sharrows don't give you the right to ride down the center of the lane; you still have to ride FRAP.
As far as the OP's situation, I would have moved to the right once there were no parked cars. I think that's what the cop was trying to explain. Sharrows don't give you the right to ride down the center of the lane; you still have to ride FRAP.
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In the OP's video, there's a large stretch where there are no parked cars. The courteous thing to do is to move over. If the lane can support two lines of cars (one parked, one moving) then it can also support a bike and a car.
#122
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Right, sharrows exist to say "bike here when cars are parked on the side", and to alert cars that bikes may be that far out.
In the OP's video, there's a large stretch where there are no parked cars. The courteous thing to do is to move over. If the lane can support two lines of cars (one parked, one moving) then it can also support a bike and a car.
In the OP's video, there's a large stretch where there are no parked cars. The courteous thing to do is to move over. If the lane can support two lines of cars (one parked, one moving) then it can also support a bike and a car.
Earlier in the video that is no traffic around in my lane or the left lane. It takes many seconds for a car to even pull into the left lane after I've already stopped at the light.
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You are lucky that was not LAPD otherwise your encounter would have ended up with you being beaten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPq1OaHNZao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPq1OaHNZao
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sharrow or not, op had the right to take the lane when there is no space for cars to pass for safety reasons the law has recognized to be valid.
paulypro, I just hope you realize most cyclists are not out here to exert their "power"; they are not trying to be like "we take the lane because we can, because the law says we can, to hell with everyone else". We just want to ride bikes on the street safely, going from point A to point B. I fully agree with getting out of the way for other, faster vehicles and send them on their way when safe.
The sad fact is many motorists don't extend the same courtesy. They are the more powerful party on the road, because in any accident cyclists can get seriously injured while the car only get a dent. They do not realize the danger passing too close can cause to cyclist. Forcing cyclist to hug the curb also have well known hazards like door-zone and road debris. You may be okay with all this, I am not and nor do I think it is right. If they can do more harm, then they need to take on more responsibility to be careful. Because they do not, we cyclists must take extra measures to ensure our safety.
The police is suppose to be out there protecting the more vulnerable group of citizens. In this case he is doing the opposite, and for the wrong reason, no less.
paulypro, I just hope you realize most cyclists are not out here to exert their "power"; they are not trying to be like "we take the lane because we can, because the law says we can, to hell with everyone else". We just want to ride bikes on the street safely, going from point A to point B. I fully agree with getting out of the way for other, faster vehicles and send them on their way when safe.
The sad fact is many motorists don't extend the same courtesy. They are the more powerful party on the road, because in any accident cyclists can get seriously injured while the car only get a dent. They do not realize the danger passing too close can cause to cyclist. Forcing cyclist to hug the curb also have well known hazards like door-zone and road debris. You may be okay with all this, I am not and nor do I think it is right. If they can do more harm, then they need to take on more responsibility to be careful. Because they do not, we cyclists must take extra measures to ensure our safety.
The police is suppose to be out there protecting the more vulnerable group of citizens. In this case he is doing the opposite, and for the wrong reason, no less.