Side clearance flag
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Side clearance flag
I had this idea about 15-years ago but chickened out.
I came back to the idea because AZ has a 3-foot passing law, I had a close passing incident captured on video, and yet could not really prove that the pass was inside 3-feet for enforcement. The flag solves that problem; it extends 35 3/4" inches beyond my handlebar. If you hit the flag, you're inside 3 feet.
I thought that I might get some guff for the flag but the only comments I have had are very supportive. One lady who commented on it yesterday really seemed to appreciate my use of it and claimed that it was very helpful to her as a driver.
It looks HUGE in small places and on small roads, but not so much on the highway as far as I can tell. The main benefit seems to be in places where drivers are tempted to "shoot the gap" in tight places.
It is, at least, an interesting experiment in driver psychology and a way to measure the minimum clearance.
PS. My commute is mostly highway with a wide shoulder and rumble strip. I ride right of the rumble strip except in two short sections where the the guard rail is too narrow to pass outside the rumble strip.
I came back to the idea because AZ has a 3-foot passing law, I had a close passing incident captured on video, and yet could not really prove that the pass was inside 3-feet for enforcement. The flag solves that problem; it extends 35 3/4" inches beyond my handlebar. If you hit the flag, you're inside 3 feet.
I thought that I might get some guff for the flag but the only comments I have had are very supportive. One lady who commented on it yesterday really seemed to appreciate my use of it and claimed that it was very helpful to her as a driver.
It looks HUGE in small places and on small roads, but not so much on the highway as far as I can tell. The main benefit seems to be in places where drivers are tempted to "shoot the gap" in tight places.
It is, at least, an interesting experiment in driver psychology and a way to measure the minimum clearance.
PS. My commute is mostly highway with a wide shoulder and rumble strip. I ride right of the rumble strip except in two short sections where the the guard rail is too narrow to pass outside the rumble strip.
Last edited by Bug Shield; 08-09-13 at 02:20 PM. Reason: PS added to indicate the enrivonment the flag has been used in.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
I had this idea about 15-years ago but chickened out.
I came back to the idea because AZ has a 3-foot passing law, I had a close passing incident captured on video, and yet could not really prove that the pass was inside 3-feet for enforcement. The flag solves that problem; it extends 35 3/4" inches beyond my handlebar. If you hit the flag, you're inside 3 feet.
I thought that I might get some guff for the flag but the only comments I have had are very supportive. One lady who commented on it yesterday really seemed to appreciate my use of it and claimed that it was very helpful to her as a driver.
It looks HUGE in small places and on small roads, but not so much on the highway as far as I can tell. The main benefit seems to be in places where drivers are tempted to "shoot the gap" in tight places.
It is, at least, an interesting experiment in driver psychology and a way to measure the minimum clearance.
I came back to the idea because AZ has a 3-foot passing law, I had a close passing incident captured on video, and yet could not really prove that the pass was inside 3-feet for enforcement. The flag solves that problem; it extends 35 3/4" inches beyond my handlebar. If you hit the flag, you're inside 3 feet.
I thought that I might get some guff for the flag but the only comments I have had are very supportive. One lady who commented on it yesterday really seemed to appreciate my use of it and claimed that it was very helpful to her as a driver.
It looks HUGE in small places and on small roads, but not so much on the highway as far as I can tell. The main benefit seems to be in places where drivers are tempted to "shoot the gap" in tight places.
It is, at least, an interesting experiment in driver psychology and a way to measure the minimum clearance.
From time to time I pass other cyclists and other cyclists pass me as well. It's rare for us to give each other that much clearance and I'm wondering if the law applies to all vehicles or specifically just motor vehicles.
Though I appreciate it when motorists give me plenty of room, especially in the winter, most of the time I'm comfortable with them passing me with substantially less than a 3 foot gap.
#3
a.k.a., Point Five Dude
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Twin Cites, MN USA
Posts: 794
Bikes: 1987 Trek Elance 400 T
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Maybe it's just the jaded cynic in me, but depending on the venue I see that as a potentially open invitation for redneck target practice.
#4
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,627
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,577 Posts
+1. In fact, what often happens is that the person behind me waits until they can swerve entirely into the oncoming lane of traffic before passing. Not sure why they do that, but it seems much less safe for them and I wonder how long it'll be before one of those idiots causes a head-on collision because they couldn't wait to pass.
#5
Full Member
Thread Starter
From time to time I pass other cyclists and other cyclists pass me as well. It's rare for us to give each other that much clearance and I'm wondering if the law applies to all vehicles or specifically just motor vehicles.
Though I appreciate it when motorists give me plenty of room, especially in the winter, most of the time I'm comfortable with them passing me with substantially less than a 3 foot gap.
Though I appreciate it when motorists give me plenty of room, especially in the winter, most of the time I'm comfortable with them passing me with substantially less than a 3 foot gap.
My commute is mostly on a highway that is regularly traveled at 75mph or better. I'll take every bit of those three-feet and wouldn't mind double that.
I have long been of the suspicion that the appropriate passing distance is about one-foot for every ten MPH.
Last edited by Bug Shield; 08-09-13 at 01:14 PM.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,441
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4221 Post(s)
Liked 2,943 Times
in
1,802 Posts
cool idea. Is that just a trailer flag?
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
#8
Full Member
Thread Starter
+1. In fact, what often happens is that the person behind me waits until they can swerve entirely into the oncoming lane of traffic before passing. Not sure why they do that, but it seems much less safe for them and I wonder how long it'll be before one of those idiots causes a head-on collision because they couldn't wait to pass.
#9
Full Member
Thread Starter
#10
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,627
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3870 Post(s)
Liked 2,563 Times
in
1,577 Posts
Interestingly, my observation is that drivers who used to go to the other lane to pass now pass closer but still with plenty of room. That aspect has been quite a surprise to me. It's like they didn't know how much room to give so they went to the other fog line. They seem to interpret the flag as an indication of how much room to give.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,988
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked 737 Times
in
521 Posts
+1. In fact, what often happens is that the person behind me waits until they can swerve entirely into the oncoming lane of traffic before passing. Not sure why they do that, but it seems much less safe for them and I wonder how long it'll be before one of those idiots causes a head-on collision because they couldn't wait to pass.
H
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,988
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked 737 Times
in
521 Posts
Interestingly, my observation is that drivers who used to go to the other lane to pass now pass closer but still with plenty of room. That aspect has been quite a surprise to me. It's like they didn't know how much room to give so they went to the other fog line. They seem to interpret the flag as an indication of how much room to give.
H
#13
Senior Member
Is this flag quickly and easily removable? If not, I can think of many situations where it might be a safety hazard. What happens when you come around a corner and there's a pedestrian standing right in its path?
After a close call a few years ago with a landscape truck pulling an empty flat bed that was swerving all over the road, I carried a hand-held flag on my top tube for a while. It worked pretty well until I lost it. Of course, this only extended as far as my arm and could be retracted on a moment's notice. Sorry, but your flag looks like an accident waiting to happen.
After a close call a few years ago with a landscape truck pulling an empty flat bed that was swerving all over the road, I carried a hand-held flag on my top tube for a while. It worked pretty well until I lost it. Of course, this only extended as far as my arm and could be retracted on a moment's notice. Sorry, but your flag looks like an accident waiting to happen.
#14
Full Member
Thread Starter
Is this flag quickly and easily removable? If not, I can think of many situations where it might be a safety hazard. What happens when you come around a corner and there's a pedestrian standing right in its path?
After a close call a few years ago with a landscape truck pulling an empty flat bed that was swerving all over the road, I carried a hand-held flag on my top tube for a while. It worked pretty well until I lost it. Of course, this only extended as far as my arm and could be retracted on a moment's notice. Sorry, but your flag looks like an accident waiting to happen.
After a close call a few years ago with a landscape truck pulling an empty flat bed that was swerving all over the road, I carried a hand-held flag on my top tube for a while. It worked pretty well until I lost it. Of course, this only extended as far as my arm and could be retracted on a moment's notice. Sorry, but your flag looks like an accident waiting to happen.
I stop at stop signs, yield to traffic with the right of way, and don't pass anyone closer than I would want them to pass me so I don't see how I'd whack a pedestrian with it. I might feel differently if I lived among more people than cattle.
#15
Senior Member
This has got to be one of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen on a bike. What if another bike wants to pass you? They have to go way out into the traffic and risk getting hit, rather than saying "on your left" and passing a foot from you. Don't be suprised if you receive frequent hostile comments from other cyclists. The 3 foot rule is a common sense guide, not a hard and fast rule dictating the amount of space someone needs to give you.
#16
Full Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Bug Shield
Interestingly, my observation is that drivers who used to go to the other lane to pass now pass closer but still with plenty of room. That aspect has been quite a surprise to me. It's like they didn't know how much room to give so they went to the other fog line. They seem to interpret the flag as an indication of how much room to give.
#17
Full Member
Thread Starter
It's fascinating that bikeforums people are more hostile to my flag use than the people who pass me every day are! Context is everything, I guess.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,441
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4221 Post(s)
Liked 2,943 Times
in
1,802 Posts
In many states that distance is written down in the law.
__________________
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),1990 Concorde Aquila(hit by car while riding), others in build queue "when I get the time"
Bikes: 1996 Eddy Merckx Titanium EX, 1989/90 Colnago Super(issimo?) Piu(?),
#19
Senior Member
#20
Senior Member
>>>>I've been using it for about two weeks and so far driver feedback and reactions have been positive.<<<
Hey, if it works, then I take back my comment. I used to have a rear view mirror that I pinned to my left riding glove. It worked great - even better than the very good handlebar mounted mirror that I use now - but I gave in to negative feedback from the forums and now I have a Mirrycle like everybody else.
Hey, if it works, then I take back my comment. I used to have a rear view mirror that I pinned to my left riding glove. It worked great - even better than the very good handlebar mounted mirror that I use now - but I gave in to negative feedback from the forums and now I have a Mirrycle like everybody else.
#21
Senior Member
How about try this first, get a florescent yoga mat or something, cut to a bit wider than your bars and stick across the rack?
I had to carry a wheel with 700x50 Big Apple tire home a few weeks back and lashed it on my backpack. Someone commented to me I was being obnoxious carrying something so wide, but they STFU when I told them it's only marginally wider than my 69 cm handle bars.
I had to carry a wheel with 700x50 Big Apple tire home a few weeks back and lashed it on my backpack. Someone commented to me I was being obnoxious carrying something so wide, but they STFU when I told them it's only marginally wider than my 69 cm handle bars.
#22
xtrajack
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,058
Bikes: Kona fire mountain/xtracycle,Univega landrover fs,Nishiki custom sport Ross professional super gran tour Schwinn Mesa (future Xtracycle donor bike)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I have a Whizz installed on the deck of my Xtracycle
#23
apocryphal sobriquet
#24
xtrajack
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,058
Bikes: Kona fire mountain/xtracycle,Univega landrover fs,Nishiki custom sport Ross professional super gran tour Schwinn Mesa (future Xtracycle donor bike)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Actually, it's hard to say how well it works. I haven't been hit...BUT then again I hadn't been hit before I installed it.
Around here, as a rule, folks are pretty good about giving me enough room. In five years, I have only been buzzed once; I swear that woman wasn't six inches off my handlebars, when she passed me.
Around here, as a rule, folks are pretty good about giving me enough room. In five years, I have only been buzzed once; I swear that woman wasn't six inches off my handlebars, when she passed me.
#25
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
This has got to be one of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen on a bike. What if another bike wants to pass you? They have to go way out into the traffic and risk getting hit, rather than saying "on your left" and passing a foot from you. Don't be suprised if you receive frequent hostile comments from other cyclists. The 3 foot rule is a common sense guide, not a hard and fast rule dictating the amount of space someone needs to give you.
Don't know why they do that? Because people like the o.p. create this culture of cyclists that must be coddled and passed with 6' clearance. You said it yourself... they are idiots. Idiots don't have any judgement or perspective so... since they don't know when they will be able to pass and they lack any impulse control they go for it when and where they find you. So the question is.... do you want to be at ground zero when there is a head on collision because you were claiming your right to the road? In my case, yes, sometimes they do go WAY around me (no flag by the way) and I am way over on the fog line. No reason at all to give me all that room... but they do. IF there ever is a head on in a situation like that... my conscience is clear. I was doing everything in my power to facilitate a pass that did not involve undue risk to anyone. The o.p. ... not so much.
I'd go to the other fog line too if I came up behind someoene with a 35.75" flag sticking horizontally from their bike. I mean... come on... how well does the average driver judge distances close to their car?? 25% are completely unable to parallel park. You want someone like that passing you with exactly 36" Inches? And... it might be me but... in the statutes... where does that 36" start? I have handlebars that are 28" wide and I have handlebars that are 20" wide. 36" from the centerline of the bike is a not unreasonable passing distance! You are adding as much as 14" to that... oh the vanity... but, rock on, truth is, most drivers give you the 3' whether you ask for it or not. Now you aren't asking. Most will give it to you anyway, but someone wont. It's inevitable. What then. Without the flag it would be a close pass. With the flag its drama. Splintering fiberglass, noise, shrapnel, maybe enough startle in there to upset your equilibrium on the bike. Maybe not. You take care.
Vanity...please. The VANITY here is you thinking you're the standard of right thinking about lane position for another rider.