Ok, I currently remove the chain and do the shake in a bottle technique, but want to see who uses the chain cleaner machines and how effective they are compared to removing from the bike. If you use a cleaner, type, degreaser solution, etc. with my technique, simple green is not very effective, especially compare to Pedro's or park degreasers bu I'm not a fan of paying that much for a biodegradable degreaser. Also I want to clean the drivetrain weekly because of the nasty commute I have but don't want to get it up on the stand every Saturday. I have other bikes I'm building!