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Old 08-16-13, 05:04 PM   #26
scoatw
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I keep a small bottle of pepper spray velcroed to my downtube. I haven't used it yet, but it's there if I need it. http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore...sw11tl18-p=499

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Old 08-16-13, 07:45 PM   #27
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ASP alloy baton in my pocket. I am so used to it i dont notice it any more than keys or a wallet.

Pepper is too risky due to wind direction. A firearm is just too much trouble to keep close at hand i find. Baton will never malfuntion either. Drug abuse does not negate the effectiveness of metal on bones.
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Old 08-16-13, 09:33 PM   #28
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Do you carry protection?

Not even a helmet. If I was that worried I'd be in a cage. Call me crazy but I'm still here, without packing.
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Old 08-16-13, 10:19 PM   #29
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Who cares about the law - if there is a risk you could get seriously hurt then you should man-up and stop the f-wit by whatever is the best method. Make sure you show them your weapon before they get within 10 ft of you, and yell out "stop or you're gonna drop".

I live in a country where the law requires us skinny dudes to run chicken as the only form of self defense. Believe me, after 55 years of running chicken it seriously affects your self esteem and confidence.

I would concealed carry in an instant, but here you get 14 years jail time if you even own a gun. It's a bullies playground.
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Old 08-16-13, 10:27 PM   #30
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the requirements to legally use pepper spray in California are as stringent as using lethal force in Texas (or Florida or many other states)

The requirement for using lethal force in Florida isn't all that stringent.
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Old 08-16-13, 10:47 PM   #31
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I think in Louisiana they give us some sort of medal or trophy for using appropriate deadly force. If a citizen has no previous criminal record and is forced to take drastic action against some punk(s) it is considered part of our civic duty and is encouraged.
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Old 08-16-13, 10:54 PM   #32
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I think in Louisiana they give us some sort of medal or trophy for using appropriate deadly force. If a citizen has no previous criminal record and is forced to take drastic action against some punk(s) it is considered part of our civic duty and is encouraged.
hehe
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Old 08-17-13, 07:08 PM   #33
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Who cares about the law - if there is a risk you could get seriously hurt then you should man-up and stop the f-wit by whatever is the best method. Make sure you show them your weapon before they get within 10 ft of you, and yell out "stop or you're gonna drop".

I live in a country where the law requires us skinny dudes to run chicken as the only form of self defense. Believe me, after 55 years of running chicken it seriously affects your self esteem and confidence.

I would concealed carry in an instant, but here you get 14 years jail time if you even own a gun. It's a bullies playground.
just showing your weapon here as you describe is called "brandishing" and it will get you time in jail. Anyone who has gone through a concealed carry course is told that if you get to the point of pulling your gun, you better fire it. I have a license, but I rarely use it and never on the bike.

Having a weapon really complicates things, I choose to not yell at drivers and if in a sketchy situation I will "run with dignity".
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Old 08-17-13, 07:24 PM   #34
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Any motorist stupid enough to get out of his car (instead of run over me with it) and not have a gun won't be a problem for me. No I don't carry a weapon.
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Old 08-17-13, 07:39 PM   #35
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Not sure I understand why you let the culprit get your bike, fright or flight ? Me flight.
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Old 08-17-13, 08:39 PM   #36
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"run with dignity"
Got a plan for doing that when you're 70 years old?
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Old 08-17-13, 08:45 PM   #37
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Yes. Exactly.
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Old 08-17-13, 08:47 PM   #38
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just showing your weapon here as you describe is called "brandishing" and it will get you time in jail. Anyone who has gone through a concealed carry course is told that if you get to the point of pulling your gun, you better fire it. I have a license, but I rarely use it and never on the bike.

Having a weapon really complicates things, I choose to not yell at drivers and if in a sketchy situation I will "run with dignity".
Needs clarification.........Are you claiming that if someone makes it clear he is going to harm you and you pull a gun and the offender stops and runs back to his pickup then high-tails it to the nearest police station and says "there was this guy on the road on a bike and he would not get out of my way so I cut him off and then got out of my truck and was running back towards him, and honest I was just going to invite him to a party, but then he pulled a gun and, yes officer, he brandished it" - the police will then take his word at face value and track down this supposedly violent cyclist and charge him with "brandishing"? Bollocks.
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Old 08-17-13, 09:51 PM   #39
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Needs clarification.........Are you claiming that if someone makes it clear he is going to harm you and you pull a gun and the offender stops and runs back to his pickup then high-tails it to the nearest police station and says "there was this guy on the road on a bike and he would not get out of my way so I cut him off and then got out of my truck and was running back towards him, and honest I was just going to invite him to a party, but then he pulled a gun and, yes officer, he brandished it" - the police will then take his word at face value and track down this supposedly violent cyclist and charge him with "brandishing"? Bollocks.
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying, you can claim "bollocks" all you want. If you are carrying a weapon, and you feel threatened enough to pull it, you had better use it. If you pull it and point it at another person, in my state that is a felony. And yes, they will find you as the person does not have to do much more than call law enforcement and say where you are. Being a responsible owner means that you are not yelling at a driver when you are cut off in traffic to the point that it seems you are trying to start trouble.

At this point I am going to bow out of this discussion. You seem to see a weapon as a magical item that imbues you with power and are creating hypothetical situations where you can use it... I do not have time for that type of discussion....I can come up with all manner of "what if" type scenarios as well.



As to running with dignity at 70? The key is not to put yourself in that situation by looking for trouble.

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Old 08-17-13, 11:22 PM   #40
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Pepper spray. I ride in Bigfoot country...
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Old 08-17-13, 11:25 PM   #41
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steel telescopic police baton.
I rode with a 12" telescopic for all of my first years of real road cycling. That's absolutely, without a doubt, the most effective, legal form of defense you can have. 4 inches of 4140 striking surface is vicious.

I struck a giant bull mastiff puppy and killed it with a relatively (so I thought) weak strike. I'm not a particularly big guy, either. I was just startled and terrified. I didn't even realize it was a puppy until afterwards. It was 110 lbs and full of run. I just needed to HTFU but I was 20 and stupid.

I decided that day that I'd rather become famous by being the cyclist who was killed and eaten by a dog, then to carry the teleskuller around anymore.

But if you want to destroy stuff, a telescoping baton, with 4140 striker, clipped to the frame...the only thing more psycho would be a chain. Just swinging a chain, Mad Max style, Beyond Thunderdome type ish.
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Old 08-17-13, 11:47 PM   #42
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Umm, ok. So you never said if the dog was attacking you or not.... was it? that kind of info makes a difference.
Ha, yeah, sorry, don't even really like talking about it. I was 20. I said I was stupid. What difference would it make with that as a preface?

It was a silly puppy. Rushed me like bull. Hit the bike, crashed me hard, had the skuller in my jersey. It fell out. I hear "ting, ting, ting." See the skuller. Murder the animal.

You gonna guilt trip me or haunt me more than two 10 year old crying twin girls burying their dead dog while I sheepishly pick at my gashed elbow? I was 20 and stupid.

But now I'm a man, and I could decimate your Strava segments, bareback, no protectioniae.
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Old 08-17-13, 11:52 PM   #43
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+1 - I think they're a lot more likely to get you into trouble then out of it (and the numbers bear this out). I know my own temperament, and there are situations that ended with some bruised egos that would have been a lot worse had I carried. That pepper spray is interesting, and it's something I've thought of before. In the end, I don't really want to carry it around...and you can get in trouble with pepper spray as well.

To my understanding, some guys get hopped up on certain things that can lead to spray having minimal effect...and I'd be worried about it being used against me. I think the best weapon is common sense mixed with a touch of cowardice.
my trusty LCR has gotten me out of a few scrapes, I've never had to fire, hell half the time it isn't even loaded but to someone who means you harm just seeing it is enough of a deterrent. I've had 4 people try to rob me while on the job once at knife point 3 times at gun point, all 4 times I drew my weapon and they ran.
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Old 08-18-13, 04:31 AM   #44
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my trusty LCR has gotten me out of a few scrapes, I've never had to fire, hell half the time it isn't even loaded but to someone who means you harm just seeing it is enough of a deterrent. I've had 4 people try to rob me while on the job once at knife point 3 times at gun point, all 4 times I drew my weapon and they ran.
I think a lot of this depends on where you are and the person's temperament.
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Old 08-18-13, 06:58 AM   #45
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"Guilt trip you"? nothing could be further from the truth. And defending yourself against a rogue dog that large (regardless of its age), is not what I would call stupid. if people want their animals to live, they will keep them under control and obey the leash laws. The failure was with the owner, not you. far too many animals enthusiast are disconnected from reality these days. they view their dog and its potential for violence through rose colored glasses.
Spot on.

After several vicious dog attacks of late, a nearby county is about to require owners of certain breeds to register and carry $100,000.00 insurance policies on their animals. I personally think the owners should also be required to serve whatever jail/prison time would be involved if they carried out the attack themselves.
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Old 08-18-13, 07:01 AM   #46
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I do not pack weapons or even keep them in my home, and belive most who do are packing a false sense of security. I use my wits, and try to maintain situational awareness. It isn't a perfect system and I may still wind up on the loosing end. This would be no different if I had a fire arm, or even pepper spray.

Also keep in mind that you can often take that bike where he cannot take his car, and the odds are overwelming in your favor that you will be able to outrun him if he has to dismount.
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Old 08-18-13, 07:19 AM   #47
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Spot on.

After several vicious dog attacks of late, a nearby county is about to require owners of certain breeds to register and carry $100,000.00 insurance policies on their animals. I personally think the owners should also be required to serve whatever jail/prison time would be involved if they carried out the attack themselves.
I own two dogs both of which are mixed with "certain breeds". Now I rescued both these animals and never sought out either for a specific breed. I believe that it is in fact my responsibility to make sure my dogs are leashed or otherwise contained. One of mine would almost certainly chase and catch most cyclists if he got out. He's not a mean dog he just has a chase instinct when it comes to bikes. So I m not about to preach against owner responsibility, but I think breed specific legislation and insurance policies are awful, illegal, Andy based on no fact. The fact is that dog bite numbers tend to correlate with breed popularity. In other words a lab is just as likely to bite or not as a pit.
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Old 08-18-13, 08:06 AM   #48
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There are few things that frustrate me as much as irresponsible pet owners who don't respect other people that their animal impacts. I also think they're the majority. Dogs belong on leashes - period - unless it's an off leash dog park. END OF STORY. My dog is as friendly as it gets - he's a social as it gets - but he's still an animal, he can still be unpredictable and he still belongs on a leash. EVERY TIME. And my dog is better behaved and more under control than most. I'm a dog lover - and I can say that you did nothing wrong, the owner did. It's unfortunate that the arse hole owner caused that to happen to you and his dog.

I have mixed feelings about mandatory insurance only because it might discourage dog ownership and there are so many unloved animals as is. In terms of principle - they should require insurance. I am firmly in favor of greater liability standards in holding pet owners accountable for the pets, both civil and criminal. If your unleashed dog bites someone, I am in favor of an assault charge.
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Old 08-18-13, 08:26 AM   #49
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There are few things that frustrate me as much as irresponsible pet owners who don't respect other people that their animal impacts. I also think they're the majority. Dogs belong on leashes - period - unless it's an off leash dog park. END OF STORY. My dog is as friendly as it gets - he's a social as it gets - but he's still an animal, he can still be unpredictable and he still belongs on a leash. EVERY TIME. And my dog is better behaved and more under control than most. I'm a dog lover - and I can say that you did nothing wrong, the owner did. It's unfortunate that the arse hole owner caused that to happen to you and his dog.

I have mixed feelings about mandatory insurance only because it might discourage dog ownership and there are so many unloved animals as is. In terms of principle - they should require insurance. I am firmly in favor of greater liability standards in holding pet owners accountable for the pets, both civil and criminal. If your unleashed dog bites someone, I am in favor of an assault charge.
i agree completely, as long as we are requiring the same from ALL dog owners. If someone has a vicious animal 99.9 % of the time the owner not the dog or its DNA is to blame.

Funny story about the dog park. One time I was at my local dog park and some guy decided that 5:30, when e everyone who just to off wok is there and the park is packed, was the perfect time to bring his bike into the dog park and ride around with his pup. I watched my German Shepard mix suddenly zero his focus in on this guy and his bike. After I grabbed my dog and quickly leashed him I had to explain to the guy why this was a terrible idea.
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Old 08-18-13, 11:18 AM   #50
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I am sure there will be a bunch of jokes about the title but here's why I ask?

The other day a driver ran through a stop sign at about 40 mph. This was about 30 feet in front of me in a
very decent residential area.

I yelled "hey!". Nothing more.

The driver (male) slammed on the brakes, jumped out the car and came rushing at me with fists clenched.

This dude was hopped up on something and was ready to take me out.

Long story short, after he picked up my bike and threw it, he realized there were people watching and yelling
at him about calling the police, he took off.

So what would you have done? Do you carry any kind of weapon or even pepper spray?

Just curious. I am not really sure what I should do.
I ignore bad people as much as possible. But, I do carry, I have a CCL. I also carry MACE in a holster. I have a fanny pack the LCR .357 rides in. That said, I would rather get beat up than use it. Beat up, but not murdered. I draw the line there and it is my thinking that counts. Frankly, after having been attacked by pit bull "type" dogs and resulting in a femur broken in three places, people are lower on my fear list, dogs are at the top.

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