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-   -   Do you carry protection? (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/907772-do-you-carry-protection.html)

KonAaron Snake 08-18-13 08:06 AM

There are few things that frustrate me as much as irresponsible pet owners who don't respect other people that their animal impacts. I also think they're the majority. Dogs belong on leashes - period - unless it's an off leash dog park. END OF STORY. My dog is as friendly as it gets - he's a social as it gets - but he's still an animal, he can still be unpredictable and he still belongs on a leash. EVERY TIME. And my dog is better behaved and more under control than most. I'm a dog lover - and I can say that you did nothing wrong, the owner did. It's unfortunate that the arse hole owner caused that to happen to you and his dog.

I have mixed feelings about mandatory insurance only because it might discourage dog ownership and there are so many unloved animals as is. In terms of principle - they should require insurance. I am firmly in favor of greater liability standards in holding pet owners accountable for the pets, both civil and criminal. If your unleashed dog bites someone, I am in favor of an assault charge.

jazzgeek79 08-18-13 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake (Post 15973161)
There are few things that frustrate me as much as irresponsible pet owners who don't respect other people that their animal impacts. I also think they're the majority. Dogs belong on leashes - period - unless it's an off leash dog park. END OF STORY. My dog is as friendly as it gets - he's a social as it gets - but he's still an animal, he can still be unpredictable and he still belongs on a leash. EVERY TIME. And my dog is better behaved and more under control than most. I'm a dog lover - and I can say that you did nothing wrong, the owner did. It's unfortunate that the arse hole owner caused that to happen to you and his dog.

I have mixed feelings about mandatory insurance only because it might discourage dog ownership and there are so many unloved animals as is. In terms of principle - they should require insurance. I am firmly in favor of greater liability standards in holding pet owners accountable for the pets, both civil and criminal. If your unleashed dog bites someone, I am in favor of an assault charge.

i agree completely, as long as we are requiring the same from ALL dog owners. If someone has a vicious animal 99.9 % of the time the owner not the dog or its DNA is to blame.

Funny story about the dog park. One time I was at my local dog park and some guy decided that 5:30, when e everyone who just to off wok is there and the park is packed, was the perfect time to bring his bike into the dog park and ride around with his pup. I watched my German Shepard mix suddenly zero his focus in on this guy and his bike. After I grabbed my dog and quickly leashed him I had to explain to the guy why this was a terrible idea.

Loose Chain 08-18-13 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbnm (Post 15967508)
I am sure there will be a bunch of jokes about the title but here's why I ask?

The other day a driver ran through a stop sign at about 40 mph. This was about 30 feet in front of me in a
very decent residential area.

I yelled "hey!". Nothing more.

The driver (male) slammed on the brakes, jumped out the car and came rushing at me with fists clenched.

This dude was hopped up on something and was ready to take me out.

Long story short, after he picked up my bike and threw it, he realized there were people watching and yelling
at him about calling the police, he took off.

So what would you have done? Do you carry any kind of weapon or even pepper spray?

Just curious. I am not really sure what I should do.

I ignore bad people as much as possible. But, I do carry, I have a CCL. I also carry MACE in a holster. I have a fanny pack the LCR .357 rides in. That said, I would rather get beat up than use it. Beat up, but not murdered. I draw the line there and it is my thinking that counts. Frankly, after having been attacked by pit bull "type" dogs and resulting in a femur broken in three places, people are lower on my fear list, dogs are at the top.

LC

KonAaron Snake 08-18-13 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzgeek79 (Post 15973197)
i agree completely, as long as we are requiring the same from ALL dog owners. If someone has a vicious animal 99.9 % of the time the owner not the dog or its DNA is to blame.

Funny story about the dog park. One time I was at my local dog park and some guy decided that 5:30, when e everyone who just to off wok is there and the park is packed, was the perfect time to bring his bike into the dog park and ride around with his pup. I watched my German Shepard mix suddenly zero his focus in on this guy and his bike. After I grabbed my dog and quickly leashed him I had to explain to the guy why this was a terrible idea.

:lol: @ the GSD owner. Fortunately most of the dog park people near me are pretty good.

I understand your point about not singling out certain breeds, but there's a big difference between being bitten by a pit bull and being bitten by a Yorkshire terrier. My thoughts are that can be reflected in the civil liability, but the problem there is that without insurance, collecting is a tenuous proposition. It's a shame that dogs have to bare the consequences for their owner's stupidity.

Extreme example of a guy who belongs in prison:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...120967939.html

PlanoFuji 08-18-13 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon c. (Post 15969824)
the requirements to legally use pepper spray in California are as stringent as using lethal force in Texas (or Florida or many other states)

The requirement for using lethal force in Florida isn't all that stringent.

Spoken like someone who believes the crap they here on the entertainment channels.

BTW, please learn to use the quote feature. Your style of quoting others is nearly unreadable.

PlanoFuji 08-18-13 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 009jim (Post 15969810)
Who cares about the law

Quote:

Originally Posted by 009jim (Post 15969810)
I would concealed carry in an instant, but here you get 14 years jail time if you even own a gun.


You do realize the contradiction here?

jazzgeek79 08-18-13 01:05 PM

I agree that there is a big difference between a yorkie bite and a pit bull bite, but not any rel difference between a pit bull that means it and a golden retriever that means it. If we want to require insurance then lets require by size not breed. That's fair to me. If I have a 15 pound dog that escapes its potential to do harm is less then that of my 90 pound dog for sure. I have been chased on my bike by both and I most certainly recognize the difference in threat. For one I can out run a small dog but not all larger dogs.

As for that doctor, his dog doesn't need to be put down it just needs to be in a home where it will not be confronted by small children which the dog is obviously threatened by. I feel bad for both the children and the dog. Dogs who aren't trained to bite don't in a home unless they reel threatened. It is easy to miss the stress children can create for a dog, but if I had a dog bred to hunt lions, and I knew it had bit a kid I'd not allow casual unsupervised interaction.

My GSD mix is head shy for example. Whenever anyone wants to approach him I explain how to interact without making him feel threatened.

jon c. 08-18-13 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlanoFuji (Post 15973873)
Spoken like someone who believes the crap they here on the entertainment channels.

BTW, please learn to use the quote feature. Your style of quoting others is nearly unreadable.

Standard practice on many discussion boards. I'll cease quoting you in the future as this sort of response indicates that you've no interest in engaging in the sort of discussion I find of value. Have a great day.

PlanoFuji 08-18-13 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon c. (Post 15973955)
Standard practice on many discussion boards. I'll cease quoting you in the future as this sort of response indicates that you've no interest in engaging in the sort of discussion I find of value. Have a great day.

Not for this discussion board. When in Rome. Oh and snarky comments deserve snarky (and accurate) replies.

Joe_Hoffmann 08-18-13 02:35 PM

My area is pretty sketchy, and I don't have any weapons or pepper spray, but my uncle gave me a 3 foot Stanly wrecking bar when I was 16 for my birthday. He even engraved my name in it. best uncle ever.
For temporary, Ive decided to zip tie it to my bicycle in case I would need it. Hate to be that guy who is carrying blunt pieces of steel, but its the only thing I have, and after the close call I had last night, never again will I go out without something to protect myself. Hope to pick up some pepper spray soon.

CbadRider 08-18-13 03:36 PM

Snarky posts are going to get this thread locked. Let's keep on topic, please.

phughes 08-18-13 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake (Post 15968213)
+1 - I think they're a lot more likely to get you into trouble then out of it (and the numbers bear this out)..

Care to back up that statement?

KonAaron Snake 08-18-13 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phughes (Post 15974579)
Care to back up that statement?

Nope - off topic, and it's easily accessible with google.

jny1000 08-18-13 07:43 PM

I sometimes have a folding knife and always have a U-Lock. I have no idea when I'd actually use them. If anything, I'd probably do something to someone's car, rather than their person, and then split, primarily so there would be no chance either "weapon" could be used against me. Where I live it's near impossible to get a handgun afaik, and I don't know if I'd want one anyway.

LeftinFlint 08-18-13 08:07 PM

I live in Flint. Cyclists have their own way of dealing with drivers: http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/inde...bicyclist.html

phughes 08-18-13 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake (Post 15974787)
Nope - off topic, and it's easily accessible with google.

I didn't think so, and no it isn't off topic since the thread is about carrying protection and you made a statement of your opinion on the subject but didn't back it up with fact. That was my only point. You stated an opinion and that is all it was, an opinion, it isn't based on fact. And yes, I have read extensively on the subject.

That being said, in the OP's situation as posted, carrying a gun would never have been a factor since it was not a situation where a gun could have been legally used or even taken out. Had the OP carried a gun, and drawn the weapon, the OP would have been the one charged.

Most situations are best dealt with by situational awareness and not provoking a response in the first place. We often want to yell at people when they get too close, and it is a natural reaction, unfortunately it can provoke a bad response at times so it is often wise to let it go. I also realize it is difficult to do at times and, as presented, the OP didn't do a whole lot, actually nothing, to provoke such an aggressive response. I hope the guy gets caught. He will do worse sometime.

Ridefreemc 08-19-13 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyBike (Post 15969513)
ASP alloy baton in my pocket. I am so used to it i dont notice it any more than keys or a wallet.

Pepper is too risky due to wind direction. A firearm is just too much trouble to keep close at hand i find. Baton will never malfuntion either. Drug abuse does not negate the effectiveness of metal on bones.

I've been carrying a steel baton and appreciate that it is heavy for a pants pocket (when I ride my Salsa Vaya) and sometimes pops out of the holder on my handlbars (on my Mezzo folder). I will probably purchase the alloy one because the steel one is so much heavier I often leave it at home.

The reason I carry one at all is because there may be a time and place where I don't have an escape - can't use my avoidance "skills." There are a couple of places on my MUP where there can be hidden dangers and no-one close by to help me out. Had a co-worker assaulted at 5:15 PM there once.

On a related note, for those considering a baton you can view some very good videos to get an idea of how they work. When used properly they can disable just about anyone in short order.

I might add that much of the trouble that comes to a cyclist after a cut-off or other idiotic cager behavior is based on the cyclist's response. I STFU even though I want to say something (or gesture) in response. I do yell or gesture to head off an incident when I think it'll get someones attention (like using a horn), but once the incident occurs it's better to go on your way. Yelling at even a sedate person can often change things.

jazzgeek79 08-19-13 07:21 AM

2) a dogs/animal's DNA does indeed factor into its behavior characteristics. Think im wrong? Then just try living with a full or evn half blooded wolf thats been in a domestic environment all its life. Sooner or later it will bare .[/QUOTE]

I am not suggesting there is no difference between a wolf and a dogs DNA. For that matter a Siberian tiger is more dangerous than a tabby cat....obviously. The key difference between a wolf and a dog is not physical but rather how they have evolved to deal with humans. While there is variation in dog breed DNA they all have evolved to socially interact with humans to some degree. Wolves have NOT. And wolf/dog hybrids can have a mix of aggression and lack of fear of people that is dangerous. I would not put them in the same genetic boat as domestic dogs. I have run into hybrids at the dog park. They always are aggressive with my dog and they creep me out. I wouldn't want one loose in a neighborhood chasing me on my bike. It would probably have less fear than a full blooded wolf.

Double0757 08-19-13 11:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=335669
Know the law and how to use it!

Booger1 08-19-13 12:18 PM

I have a master lock on a cable if need be......

JoeyBike 08-19-13 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridefreemc (Post 15975854)
I've been carrying a steel baton and appreciate that it is heavy for a pants pocket (when I ride my Salsa Vaya) and sometimes pops out of the holder on my handlbars (on my Mezzo folder).

The alloy baton is much lighter but the last section (striking end) is still steel.

I always keep it in my pocket because it is most likely that punks will knock me down and away from my bike initially. So the baton must be on me and easily grasped. I added the optional Lanyard Endcap which dangles the lanyard from my pocket so no matter where my hand goes looking for it...there it is.

Like any weapon, if you can't EASILY get your hand on the thing it is worthless.

dbnm 08-20-13 06:35 PM

Thanks for all of the responses. I've picked up some pepper spray to keep on my bike. Hopefully I will never need it.

beckieanne 08-22-13 04:08 PM

Yes i do. My husband has had a ccw for several years and never rides w/o it. that beaning said when he saw the picture of the ball and chain, he shorted out his keyboard from all of the drool. :lol: i my self carry a home made/ bought stun baton. a old and worn baseball bat mounted along the top tube on the left, but as i am now *cough 39 cough* i rely more on speed than a swing for the fences tack.

Fargo Wolf 08-23-13 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbnm (Post 15967508)
I am sure there will be a bunch of jokes about the title but here's why I ask?

The other day a driver ran through a stop sign at about 40 mph. This was about 30 feet in front of me in a
very decent residential area.

I yelled "hey!". Nothing more.

The driver (male) slammed on the brakes, jumped out the car and came rushing at me with fists clenched.

This dude was hopped up on something and was ready to take me out.

Long story short, after he picked up my bike and threw it, he realized there were people watching and yelling
at him about calling the police, he took off.

So what would you have done? Do you carry any kind of weapon or even pepper spray?

Just curious. I am not really sure what I should do.

Hopefully you called the incident in to the police too. Verbal Assault, Intimidation and Damaging Property (your bike), are just three of the potential charges that come to mind.

Insofar as protection goes, I don't carry anything, but am somewhat reconsidering due to three incidents on the only available route to downtown Kamloops, which is the Overlander Bridge MUP. There has been one murder (homeless person living under the bridge) and two assaults (one was targeted, the other was totally unprovoked). I do have a knife with a 6 inch blade, that I can clip to my waistband. I guess the other options are pepper spray and/or bear spray.


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