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-   -   Do you carry protection? (http://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/907772-do-you-carry-protection.html)

Piratebike 09-20-13 11:25 AM

I carry everywhere I go.

skins_brew 09-20-13 11:46 AM

I live in Maryland (Silver Spring), a burb of DC. At the beginning of Sept, I started riding all the way to work, which is in Downtown DC, about 20 miles exactly. A large portion of the ride is though trails that run through parks and forests. There are a decent amount of bums living out there, so I carry pepper spray. The rest of the commute isn't bad, although, Mt. Rannier is a little sketchy....

I did have a rather scary experience the other day. I was biking up a decent hill in MD. I was just spinning, maybe going 10mph, and I was in the shoulder. An older mini-van with NY plates pulls up next to me maybe 2 feet away, and starts pacing me. There are three youths inside. This is a two lane road, and fairly quiet. The opposing lane is empty, and these jerkoffs could of easily gone around, but they were clearly messing with me. I wave my arm and yell "What the f are you doing?" The keep on pacing me, and are saying something among themselves. They speed up a little and I take the lane behind them and throw them the bird. They brake and start slowing down and I am thinking "oh crap, get ready to peel off to a side street." One of them throws me the bird and they speed off. I saw a cop coming out of a park two minutes later and I still had eye sight of the van. I should have said something.....but I didn't

I would totally carry a handgun on me if MD and DC would recognize my right to do so. I have a wife and two small kids and I rather enjoy coming home to them every night and personally, I would rather not be a victim.

Slaninar 09-20-13 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber_8 (Post 16086274)
This is because they would be open to lawsuits every time someone was a victim of crime.


Exactly. If you put any force to protect yourself, you get sued (by the thugs, or the state). You're supposed to leave your assets to the thieves, because human life is more valuable than material assets. That's what the law says. Even if someone breaks into your house - unless you get attacked, you must not attack the intruder. Just fall back and call the police. Brilliant law... for the thugs.

anthonybkny 09-20-13 12:08 PM

spyderco for me

skins_brew 09-20-13 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaninar (Post 16086815)
Exactly. If you put any force to protect yourself, you get sued (by the thugs, or the state). You're supposed to leave your assets to the thieves, because human life is more valuable than material assets. That's what the law says. Even if someone breaks into your house - unless you get attacked, you must not attack the intruder. Just fall back and call the police. Brilliant law... for the thugs.

Personally, I rather be judged by 12 than carried by six. Also, the courts have ruled that the police are under no obligation to protect you. See Warren v. District of Columbia

sareybelle 09-20-13 12:24 PM

No, I don't. Women in this area (DC) get a lot of street harrassment, but in terms of avoiding violent crime, being on two wheels has always been the defense I need. I tell women all the time, "Yes, learning to deal with buses and cabs and aggressive drivers is scary BUT, if you're scared to walk to the metro at night, if you're worried about getting to a club by yourself, if you hate walking by a bunch of drunk dudes talking about your body? get a bike." I've never been truly bothered, and even the tools who yell dumb s*** at me, well, they're in my hindsights before I know it. Bye bye.

enigmaT120 09-20-13 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaninar (Post 16086815)
Exactly. If you put any force to protect yourself, you get sued (by the thugs, or the state). You're supposed to leave your assets to the thieves, because human life is more valuable than material assets. That's what the law says. Even if someone breaks into your house - unless you get attacked, you must not attack the intruder. Just fall back and call the police. Brilliant law... for the thugs.

What country is that? I'm sorry I don't recognize the flag in your avatar, if that's the one.

WonderMonkey 09-20-13 02:41 PM

I have considered carrying my wife's pistol in a chest pouch but I weigh the pros and cons versus the area I sometimes ride through and have opted to not do so. However I may mount some spray on my handlebars but the issue with that is that if you are taken off your bike you are without it. Only by having it on you do you have the ability to reach it when needed.

WonderMonkey 09-20-13 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sareybelle (Post 16086895)
No, I don't. Women in this area (DC) get a lot of street harrassment, but in terms of avoiding violent crime, being on two wheels has always been the defense I need. I tell women all the time, "Yes, learning to deal with buses and cabs and aggressive drivers is scary BUT, if you're scared to walk to the metro at night, if you're worried about getting to a club by yourself, if you hate walking by a bunch of drunk dudes talking about your body? get a bike." I've never been truly bothered, and even the tools who yell dumb s*** at me, well, they're in my hindsights before I know it. Bye bye.

The worst I have ever received, along these lines, is someone hollering at me seemingly just entertaining themselves. I've never been close enough to find out any different. It would be easy to take someone off a bike so I do my best to avoid those circumstances. Can't do it 100% but I can do all I can do.

WonderMonkey 09-20-13 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigmaT120 (Post 16087033)
What country is that? I'm sorry I don't recognize the flag in your avatar, if that's the one.

Serbia, I think.

Axiom 09-20-13 04:24 PM

Even when I get my CCP I won't carry a gun when I ride. It's just easier to avoid shady areas and night riding. That's why I've stopped doing both.

Timber_8 09-20-13 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaninar (Post 16086815)
Exactly. If you put any force to protect yourself, you get sued (by the thugs, or the state). You're supposed to leave your assets to the thieves, because human life is more valuable than material assets. That's what the law says. Even if someone breaks into your house - unless you get attacked, you must not attack the intruder. Just fall back and call the police. Brilliant law... for the thugs.

this is is true I'm my state but not in every state, most states have stand your ground or a castle doctrine. We have a castle doctrine in Massachusets, by law we have to retreat to a safe room if possible. Most homes people scattered through the house and that voids the safe room. At this point deadly force is your last resort and a legal option. On the street I will draw and shoot to save my life, I hope that never happens.

Timber_8 09-20-13 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sareybelle (Post 16086895)
No, I don't. Women in this area (DC) get a lot of street harrassment, but in terms of avoiding violent crime, being on two wheels has always been the defense I need. I tell women all the time, "Yes, learning to deal with buses and cabs and aggressive drivers is scary BUT, if you're scared to walk to the metro at night, if you're worried about getting to a club by yourself, if you hate walking by a bunch of drunk dudes talking about your body? get a bike." I've never been truly bothered, and even the tools who yell dumb s*** at me, well, they're in my hindsights before I know it. Bye bye.

Best coarse of action I have seen in this thread.

unterhausen 09-20-13 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axiom (Post 16087656)
E It's just easier to avoid shady areas and night riding.

shady areas are one thing, but night riding is the best. Hard to convince yourself of that, I know

Slaninar 09-21-13 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skins_brew (Post 16086893)
Personally, I rather be judged by 12 than carried by six. Also, the courts have ruled that the police are under no obligation to protect you. See Warren v. District of Columbia

I hear that a lot. Me, personaly, would rather loose my life than my freedom. Going to prison is an unacceptable idea for me. Even for a year! So I'd rather just use my bare hands for self defence and if I get killed, so be it!


And the county is Serbia (the avatar flag is of Socialist Fedarative Republic of Yugoslavia, which doesn't exist anymore).


Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber_8 (Post 16087697)
this is is true I'm my state but not in every state, most states have stand your ground or a castle doctrine. We have a castle doctrine in Massachusets, by law we have to retreat to a safe room if possible. Most homes people scattered through the house and that voids the safe room. At this point deadly force is your last resort and a legal option. On the street I will draw and shoot to save my life, I hope that never happens.

Love your gun - from the pic. Really nice! :) I love guns, rifles, am a pretty decent shooter, but don't rely on them for self defense. My doubts come from misjudging the situation - when scared, attacked - I cold misjudge a beating and robbery for an attempt at my life. If people in my area started getting killed by robbers, I'd consider packing a 38 everywhere I go, but so far that has not been the case - just a few bruises and wallet gone. But even then, I'd be more inclined to a baton and a strong torch light.

Timber_8 09-21-13 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slaninar (Post 16088822)
I hear that a lot. Me, personaly, would rather loose my life than my freedom. Going to prison is an unacceptable idea for me. Even for a year! So I'd rather just use my bare hands for self defence and if I get killed, so be it!




And the county is Serbia (the avatar flag is of Socialist Fedarative Republic of Yugoslavia, which doesn't exist anymore).








Love your gun - from the pic. Really nice! I love guns, rifles, am a pretty decent shooter, but don't rely on them for self defense. My doubts come from misjudging the situation - when scared, attacked - I cold misjudge a beating and robbery for an attempt at my life. If people in my area started getting killed by robbers, I'd consider packing a 38 everywhere I go, but so far that has not been the case - just a few bruises and wallet gone. But even then, I'd be more inclined to a baton and a strong torch light.


Thank you, it is a Smith & Wesson 1911 E series. I think the perception that if you carry a firearm that it is your first line of defense. The reality is for myself and most people that carry is it is the very last thing you want to do. Most all situations do not require discharging a firearm. Avoiding confrontation and not escalating a situation when confrontation occurs is a much better option. I also carry pepper spray and I was a pretty good scrapper in my youth. Home invasions and shooting and fatal beatings are much more common locally than ever. We recently had a good man of the cloth beaten to death with his own hammer ridding his bicycle to his handicaped daughters to fix something for her. The guy was in his late 60s and it wasn't even 9pm when it happened. Some people just have no respect for life.

billyymc 09-21-13 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber_8 (Post 16088921)
Thank you, it is a Smith & Wesson 1911 E series. I think the perception that if you carry a firearm that it is your first line of defense. The reality is for myself and most people that carry is it is the very last thing you want to do. Most all situations do not require discharging a firearm. Avoiding confrontation and not escalating a situation when confrontation occurs is a much better option.

Good post Timber.

I don't carry any type of protection when I ride. Thankfully, given the location I live in and ride I don't feel the need. There are a few places nearby that I would avoid at night - but I don't do a lot of night riding. If I ride in the dark it's on the way to work in the fall/winter.

And you're right - some people have no respect for life.

Slaninar 09-21-13 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber_8 (Post 16088921)
Thank you, it is a Smith & Wesson 1911 E series.

Cocked (and locked?) in the picture?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber_8 (Post 16088921)
I think the perception that if you carry a firearm that it is your first line of defense.

Snipped the rest - we agree, 99%. My only doubt is that with a gun at my belt, I'd be less cautious, less scared to take a dark shortcut home.

From what I understand, most US states allow people to carry guns for self defence AND use them for that. Also, from what I've read, US penalty policy is strict. In my country you get 3 to 5 years for an armed robbery, even if you kill someone you get out in 5 or 6 years. Still, there is very small percentage of murders, 99% ends up with taking money and running. Should be the other way round?!


So I'd rather not start firing any weapons - just let them take the money and run - **** 'em. Although, I'm a 30 year old male that doesn't look like a nice prey - but I might turn 50 someday, maybe then I'll think differently. :/

MichaelW 09-21-13 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber_8 (Post 16087697)
We have a castle doctrine in Massachusets, by law we have to retreat to a safe room if possible. Most homes people scattered through the house and that voids the safe room.

As I understand it, US law Castle Doctrine voids the duty to retreat from attackers once you are inside your house. There is no distinction to which bit within your house. Outside the walls and doors, eg porch and steps you have a duty to retreat.
Is Safe Room even a legal term?
It may be sensible to retreat to a safe room but it is not a legal duty.

tigerteeuwen 09-21-13 09:09 AM

One of these mounted on a rear bicycle trailer....

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4.../00001_212.jpg

you know in case a plane or tank try's cutting me off on my daily commute :)

Timber_8 09-21-13 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelW (Post 16089380)
As I understand it, US law Castle Doctrine voids the duty to retreat from attackers once you are inside your house. There is no distinction to which bit within your house. Outside the walls and doors, eg porch and steps you have a duty to retreat.
Is Safe Room even a legal term?
It may be sensible to retreat to a safe room but it is not a legal duty.

Deadly force is a last resort and yes your suppose to retreat to a safe room and let the criminals take what the want. The states and towns inturpit this in different ways. It is good advise if possible for many reasons. It's a hell of thing to live with to taking a persons life regardless if it's justified or not. It is also very expensive to prove your justification for the actions you took. Every thing is better than being dead or watch your wife and children raped and murdered before your very own eyes, and don't think it doesn't happen. Their are consequences to every action, killing someone even in your own defense is not without burden, mentally and financially. If you do not understand this you have no business carrying a firearm.

mrodgers 09-21-13 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerteeuwen (Post 16089424)
One of these mounted on a rear bicycle trailer....

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d4.../00001_212.jpg

you know in case a plane or tank try's cutting me off on my daily commute :)

I need one of these. I don't commute and I'm not on the streets riding like you guys are, so I'm not worried about protection from being attacked by other people. I ride a paved bike trail in the middle of the woods along a river and it's going to be getting dark early during the time I have to ride. I have to worry about the bear coming down the hill out of the woods. But it's not even that, Sasquatch has to come to water at some time, I'm thinking it would be in the dark, and no one has ever shot a Squatch so no one has a clue how much it would take to stop one.

I've thought about carrying a camera around with me, but as we discussed at work, no matter what quality camera you use to capture a Squatch in an image, it will be blurry. They always are. :D

mcculver5 09-21-13 08:17 PM

I carry a glock 22 in a waist pack. Same one I carry all day at work.

My commute is rural, but rural doesn't mean safe.

LiteraryChic 09-21-13 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooker (Post 15968016)
I carry those blue hospital gloves.

And lube.

:thumb:

Isaiahc72 09-21-13 10:21 PM

I've carried a stun gun at times and always have a concealed knife ready to go if I need them. I doubt I'd really need a weapon most of the time though. I trained myself about self-defense a long time before I got into cycling.


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