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Old 08-20-13, 12:47 PM   #1
wphamilton
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Joggers reversing Tells

It's too common: you're approaching a jogger, get over about to pass and then abruptly without looking the jogger cuts a u-turn right in front of you. Two people have posted about it this month in the "How was your commute" thread, and I've seen it probably half a dozen times. It still scares me, and warning them doesn't always help. In the commuting thread, the jogger was so engrossed in her phone that she ignored the warning, ignored subsequent hollering, and ran right over the guy who was completely stopped and trying to get her attention. Not an exaggeration; he had video of it.

I've noted some of the tell-tail signs that a runner is about to pull this.

1) He might dip his left shoulder, or lean back with his head coming up
2) Sometimes there's sort of a left-to-right wobble as he's still jogging
3) When they slow down to a shuffling kind of walk, especially at an overpass or crossroad it's a dead giveaway

4) I think that stairing down at electronics - gps, hr monitor etc - would be a signal but I haven't actually caught this one before the rush-around so I can't definitely call it a tell.

What are some of the other warning signs?
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Old 08-20-13, 12:53 PM   #2
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you guys need segregated MUPs
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Old 08-20-13, 12:59 PM   #3
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Thankfully, I haven't encountered this. They just turn around suddenly without looking back first? Strange.

But I can't say I'm surprised. As a relatively new bike commuter, I'd say 50% or more of pedestrians, joggers, and the dreaded dog-walkers are wearing headphones and don't give any indication of hearing my bell and my "On your left!" shout as I approach.

Thanks for the warning.
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Old 08-20-13, 01:14 PM   #4
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I actually find that joggers here (NYC) are way more careful and thoughtful about their actions than the average pedestrian. I don't mind them very much. They generally try and stay out of the way, and respond to bell rings. Occasionally one has their iPod turned up too loud, but they don't tend to step out in front of me or weave all over the path like many pedestrians.
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Old 08-20-13, 01:24 PM   #5
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Try passing on their right. For some reason, U-turn joggers always seem to turn left.
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Old 08-20-13, 01:29 PM   #6
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This was mine:
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Old 08-20-13, 01:29 PM   #7
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Not a tell, but there are certain places where joggers do this frequently - at intersections with cross streets for example. Usually there's a traffic post there and sometimes they grab it and sling themselves around for a rapid U-turn. So when I suspect they may do that, I purposefully get just close enough that they're looking right at me when they finish the move and then they realize what a stupid move it was.
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Old 08-20-13, 01:33 PM   #8
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I actually find that joggers here (NYC) are way more careful and thoughtful about their actions than the average pedestrian. I don't mind them very much. They generally try and stay out of the way, and respond to bell rings. Occasionally one has their iPod turned up too loud, but they don't tend to step out in front of me or weave all over the path like many pedestrians.
Most of them. I think it only takes one time for a jogger to wake up and never do it again, but if you happen to be their learning experience it can be a really bad scene.

We seem to have developed a kind of convention here where they'll flap their left hand to signal that they heard me coming up behind, and that works really well. Unfortunately I can't always tell that it's an inexperienced jogger though coming up from behind, so I think there oughta be more tells. How they're running, what they're wearing, something.
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Old 08-20-13, 02:32 PM   #9
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Not a tell, but there are certain places where joggers do this frequently - at intersections with cross streets for example. Usually there's a traffic post there and sometimes they grab it and sling themselves around for a rapid U-turn. So when I suspect they may do that, I purposefully get just close enough that they're looking right at me when they finish the move and then they realize what a stupid move it was.
That's a good one to know - since there's nothing like that on my routes currently it would take me completely by surprise.

Are you ever tempted to grease the traffic posts?
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Old 08-20-13, 03:16 PM   #10
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I've had this happen twice, and that's one of the reasons why I use flashing lights in the daytime. They may not be able to hear you or be looking for you, but you're more visible with the lights.

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Old 08-20-13, 04:41 PM   #11
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this is nothing but the fault of the joggers. wearing headphones is such a handicap for them.

i've yelled "on your left" so many times to have it fall of deaf ears because their headphones are on. i once got stuck behind a girl for about 50 feet because her music was so loud she couldn't hear me even from behind her, and i couldn't weave around because she was drifting left and right and it was a narrow MUP through the woods. when i reached a fork finally i scooter around to her right and she freaked out because i startled her. at this point i'd been behind her for a good 30 seconds.

i say tough crap for the joggers. run them over.
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Old 08-20-13, 06:31 PM   #12
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... i say tough crap for the joggers. run them over.
You're tough - I just want them to hold their line!
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Old 08-20-13, 07:00 PM   #13
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If any cyclist has problems on MUPS with joggers, dog walkers, old ladies with walkers, mothers with baby strollers , then they should ride on the road with cars instead.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:01 PM   #14
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AirZound! At a good distance, because you never know their reaction.
I have low threshold of tolerance for joggers.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:11 PM   #15
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If any cyclist has problems on MUPS with joggers, dog walkers, old ladies with walkers, mothers with baby strollers , then they should ride on the road with cars instead.
They jog on the street too sometimes!
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Old 08-20-13, 07:14 PM   #16
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AirZound! At a good distance, because you never know their reaction.
I have low threshold of tolerance for joggers.
Aw, be nice. For the most part, in my experience, the joggers are the best behaved MUP citizens. Or at least the most predictable, usually. It's just the sudden stop and turn around that you have to watch for.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:14 PM   #17
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If any cyclist has problems on MUPS with joggers, dog walkers, old ladies with walkers, mothers with baby strollers , then they should ride on the road with cars instead.
I disagree - we have no bike lanes, antiquated infrastructure and horrid drivers. Our city's only MUP was built as a safe and alternate route for cyclists (recreational & commuter) as well as other users. I have no problem with elderly, kids, strollers, and most dog walkers - its the joggers causing issues for all other users including cyclists! Running 2 or 3 abreast with or without headphones - not moving over even when meeting people and unpredictable behaviour. If I should be on the street, then they should be on the sidewalk; which would force moving single-file and on a fairly straight path.

I don't ride fast on the MUP, slow down even more around around others, occasionally ride in the grass to go around kids & elderly. Unfortunately our joggers do not show any respect for others - I had one woman tell me that everyone else on the path was interfering with her workout, as she had to look out for them and slow down her pace!

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Old 08-20-13, 07:18 PM   #18
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Aw, be nice. For the most part, in my experience, the joggers are the best behaved MUP citizens. Or at least the most predictable, usually. It's just the sudden stop and turn around that you have to watch for.
I have a bell, too; the AirZound is mostly for riding in traffic. Unfortunately our local "plugged-in" joggers don't hear a bell.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:22 PM   #19
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I have a bell, too; the AirZound is mostly for riding in traffic. Unfortunately our local "plugged-in" joggers don't hear a bell.
I kind of feel like if they've plug up their ears and can't hear anything, it's deliberate and they're aware of the consequences and don't care. So I'm not really obligated to get their attention. If I can only get around them safely.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:30 PM   #20
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I kind of feel like if they've plug up their ears and can't hear anything, it's deliberate and they're aware of the consequences and don't care. So I'm not really obligated to get their attention. If I can only get around them safely.
That's my point exactly, getting around them when approaching from behind and avoiding them when meeting- had one tell me that since I had a mountain bike (my 700c hybrid) that i should get off the path and go around her. Its disrespect for everyone else on the MUP.
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Old 08-20-13, 07:50 PM   #21
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That's my point exactly, getting around them when approaching from behind and avoiding them when meeting- had one tell me that since I had a mountain bike (my 700c hybrid) that i should get off the path and go around her. Its disrespect for everyone else on the MUP.
You've got it worse than me, that's for sure. I read an article somewhere about path strife in Canada, everyone needing a different kind of snow track or felt like they needed the track more than anyone else or something like that - plus the dog sleds had their own set of problems. Maybe it was Alaska LOL.

Around here they'll mostly move over if they hear someone behind them. I'm sure it would get worse if it got more crowded with joggers, but to be honest running isn't real popular in Atlanta GA suburbs, and the runners there are tend to be pretty dedicated - more into running than causing trouble.
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Old 08-20-13, 08:24 PM   #22
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If any cyclist has problems on MUPS with joggers, dog walkers, old ladies with walkers, mothers with baby strollers , then they should ride on the road with cars instead.
This guy runs down the center of two lanes.

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Old 08-20-13, 08:57 PM   #23
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agree about riding on roads only - our greenways are much more kept up maintenance wise than a lot of the roads. so if we want a smoother ride, it's the MUPs.

i don't mind people with dogs because nearly all the time these people aren't wearing headphones and they are aware of their surroundings and me coming from behind well in advance.
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Old 08-20-13, 09:36 PM   #24
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If you see them checking their watch it is a sign that they could be ending an interval or about to make a u-turn, either way a possible change of course and/or speed.

I am a runner too and I confess that I run wired up. But I also hold my line and check over my shoulder frequently.
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Old 08-20-13, 11:04 PM   #25
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This... http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=2196
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