rolliepollie

So I've been thinking of biking to work in San Francisco from the Sunset area to downtown, basically across the city. I start at 7PM and probably won't mind stopping for red lights since it's mostly downhill anyway, but coming back at 4 or 5AM is a different story. Now, I'm in the Idaho camp and believe in rolling stops across red lights, but there's been recent crackdowns by cops ticketing red light-running cyclists. After my $200+ no u-turn ticket from driving I'd like to minimize all chances of getting ticketed. But at 4AM there are crazies in the streets, and I do not want to stand at a red waiting to get jumped or barked at by some beggar. Second is, some lights are timed for car speeds. I simply won't be fast enough to make it all the way and it's a frustrating chain reaction of red lights. Then there are the cops. I see random patrols even early morning at random places too often to even risk getting ticketed. Hell I got a warning for an illegal left turn driving at 4AM from a cop who literally appeared out of nowhere behind me and floored behind me for a few blocks. So I'm confused as all hell. To run or not to run the reds? Thoughts? [and from other SF commuters it would be obsolutely swell]. Oh and I plan on trying the "Wiggle" route. And I do have pepper spray as a last resort I guess..

phoebeisis

4am-dodgy section of town
easy choice- take a good look around and run them.
Now I'm assuming there is VERY little traffic
If you were in a car-locked door windows up-acceleration nearly instantaneous -different story.
Just depends on how dangerous you consider those intersections-dangerous in respect to humans attacking you.

Old saying "better indicted than embalmed" not exactly on point-but close enough
Careful look around-run the light.

bbbean 

Bad neighborhood at 4AM? I wouldn't be on a bike, or even in a car if I could avoid it. Carry some sort of self defense option and choose another route.

gregjones

fietsbob

Even the Bad neighborhoods are expensive, to live in , in SF .. which one you talkin about Willis?

I used to work in the Richmond district and live a couple blocks in from the Great Highway , just south of the GG park .

& in the SE corner , they loved spinning doughnuts in the intersection at the top of that hill ,

not sure if they were their tires .

[+ 20 years in city of Napa , so visited regularly ]

walrus1

I'm going to be honest I don't know SF at all. But sometimes their are safer more direct routes through a bad area. Personally I'd never be on a bike past 1 or maybe 2 am. That's when the first groups of drunks get thrown out of bars and start driving.

howeeee

I would run them and hope not to get caught, doesnt seem like any other choice. I live in suburban Detroit cops dont usually mess with bicyclists. Good luck

rolliepollie

I'd love to work or live in the Richmond district. I wouldn't really worry about riding from there, actually. But it's riding down from Market and 2nd St. that's the creepiest, especially south past 6th st. And maybe the lower height. The most direct way is down Market, and no way I'm going through the tenderloin. I guess I'll don my rearview mirror and look out for both cops and drunks equally.

rolliepollie

There is another router that goes up a ton more hills and is more steady pacing, but traffic speed is also faster and quite busy. So it's either this with less chance of getting jumped but more risk of drunk drivers, or my other route through darker, narrower streets but a little less traffic. Both choices are kinda "meh" lol

fietsbob

Crappier bike , like those who had their drivers licence taken from them by the Court , ride.

save the nicer one for the weekend rides across the bridge to the Marin Headlands , GGNRA.

Isaiahc72

I reccommend stopping for it anyways. Just be in a low gear. As for self defense, I suggest carrying a stun gun which can be bought for about $40 and a pocket knife of some sort. Check your areas laws about those weapons.

Stryver

I recommend not considering a knife as a self-defense weapon. A knife is a very useful tool, and there are any number of good, valid reasons to carry one, from cutting a boot to repair a sidewall tear to prepping a tube for a patch to opening those confounded little rubber cement tubes to removing metal flakes and debris from brake pads. But discussing any tool, be it knife or tire iron or bike pump, in terms of pre-planned defense or use of force, particularly in a public forum, can make that tool look a lot like a deadly weapon in the law's eyes. Get non-lethal deterrants (like spray or a stun gun) appropriate to the laws in your area. Carry other tools, like a pocket knife or wrench or bike lock, as appropriate for your mechanical needs. You should also practice with any thing you might use defensively. 4AM is a crummy time to be learning how to use something, or doing it wrong and hurting yourself.

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice. I'm just a fan of sharp tools, and enjoy the right to carry them for appropriate purposes.

I also believe in stopping for stop lights and otherwise obeying laws of the road as they are written. Morning commutes aren't good places for protests, nor will protesting them in the road have any impact on changing them. Make your voice known to your local representatives and work to get the ordinances changed.

AusTexMurf

I commute very late at night/early in the morning on a regular basis through crack alley, heart of downtown, and on home. About 9 miles total on my one way late night commute.
I rarely stop at any intersections this late at night. Unless I spy Five-Oh. Or don't have a safe break in traffic across US 71/290 service road.
And I always have my u-lock handy.

harshbarj

Honestly I see no valid reason to run a red light. Well, outside of lights that don't detect a bicycle and will only change for cars. The idea of keeping momentum to me just does not fly. I'm very overweight and have monster hills to climb and I don't use that as a reason to break the law.

jyl

At 4 am in a dodgy area, I would slow, look both ways, then ride through red lights if there are no cars around, and there usually won't be.

I would also be very well illuminated, use a helmet mirror, watch like a hawk for cars. After midnight I work on the assumption that every driver is drunk.

If you see someone approaching from behind in your lane, use the next driveway to relocate to the sidewalk until they pass. Sounds like a pain but at the hour you're planning to ride, I bet you don't encounter that situation but a couple times per ride.

Is Market Street the best route? With all the streetcar rails? I wonder if Mission or another street might be worth considering?

Loose Chain

What activates the lights? Most street stop lights will not activate by a cyclist? I guess they are on timers or computer control?

It is a shame that so many of our cities are slowly becoming safe haven encampments for undesirables and sketchy bums. Do not feed the strays unless you want them to stay, I guess San Francisco wanted them to stay and so now I stay away from there, as beautiful as it once was.

LC

Leisesturm

Cool beans. Its all good. You continue being 'law abiding'. Someone should. I will probably run my 1X10*9 stopsign and my 1x10*6 stoplight sometime this year. That's saying a lot. Around here, stoplights can be 1/4mile apart. That's minutes saved over sitting with the traffic. On a ten miler that can be 20 even 30 minutes cumulative. I could be finished eating dinner before you even get home, if we were riding the same route. I'm willing to bet you break far more important laws than the bogus statutes concerning bicycle operations on U.S. roadways. Laws that I adhere to because they make sense. But, really, that's not a judgement. Live and let live, right?

H

Leisesturm

I ride in a FAR better neighborhood than the o.p. but I run more red lights than I stop for, no matter what time of day it is... just saying. So much for the premise that the quality of the surroundings and the extenuating circumstances of the hour of day validate lawbreaking. The o.p. should simply run the lights if he wants to. Or not. He could get jumped either way. I mean... some lights you gotta stop for, right? I mean, even I have actually stopped for the odd red or one hundred. What if there is cross traffic? So... you're stopped... you're vulnerable...whap!! I don't think the posters suggesting a change of neighborhood are all that far off base. Come on up to my neck of the woods. You don't have to worry about being lifted off your ride at stoplights. Only downside is you actually have to own your inner scofflaw, and do it without apology.

H

Astrozombie

Make even less sense on a deserted 4AM street with possible danger lurking, I'd slow to 8mph and take it. Most "self-defense" stuff is illegal in CA and please read nononsenseselfdefense before you get any bad ideas. A stun gun right off the top of my head is something that has to be used in close proximity to someone and they could easily get the drop on you, would you be ok with being stunned by it yourself? Luckily i lost mine right after getting it before i knew they were illegal in CA.

You already have a nice defense in a bicycle, if need be maybe you can use it like you would on a dog? To keep distance from someone until you call the police? If someone forces you down then swing it at um if you want. It's very easy to then get booked for being the "assailant" even if it started with you defending yourself.

And just how the heck are these people living there? As someone said it's expensive even in the bad parts, i had a cousin who was mugged in his short stay there (Hunter's Point i think it was)

bbbean 

Heavern forbid you should eat your dinner 20 minutes later. Better to give all those anti-bikers more ammo and an example for their "cyclists ignore the law - they don't belong on the road" argument, right?

BB

AusTexMurf

At 3-5am, more than any other time, I could give a $h*t what the anti-bikers/motor heads think of me.
What are they doing, driving around to pass judgement on a commuter cyclist in the wee hours of the morning ?
Response sounds out of context with OP.
But to each, their own and different strokes for different folks.
Stop all you want. Arguably very much unsafer.
And not what I do.......

bbbean 

Sorry you disagree.

rolliepollie

Market seems better off to me since it's more lit, the lights seem to be green more often, and overall more "lively" even in the AM with the occasional PGE or other utility vehicle parked (now that I think about it). The rails for the most part only run straight down Market in the left lane, and there are some bike lane sections and labelling on the road to remind drivers that cyclists do exist.

rolliepollie

In SF as I know, automatic knives over 2'' are illegal, so that leaves folding knives or a large enough open-carry blade. I think I'll stick with the pepper spray and fashion some quick release mount on the bike for easy access.

harshbarj

And I disagree with that attitude, and the law agrees with me. Enjoy finishing dinner in the hospital when you get hit running that light. Better to arrive late than never I say.