700x23 versus 700x28
#1
ouate de phoque
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: La Prairie, Qc, Canada
Posts: 1,781
Bikes: Bianchi, Nakamura,Opus
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
700x23 versus 700x28
Last week end I had to replace my rear tire, a Schwalbe Durano 700x23 that (only) lasted 3500 kms (2175 mi.) I decided to try bigger tires. The biggest tires I could fit on the bike are 700x28.
It's been a week or 220 kms (137 mi.) so far and I really feel slower, I feel like I need to put more effort to keep the same pace and my average commuting time is definitely slower this week. Is it me? Is it the tires? I've read a few thread on this forum stating that a bigger tire shouldn't make you slower but I don't agree so far.
It may just be the tires, they're Schwalbe Delta Cruiser 700x28, anyone familiar with those?
Bigger is definitely more comfortable but I choose speed over comfort.
Anyone having the same impression?
It's been a week or 220 kms (137 mi.) so far and I really feel slower, I feel like I need to put more effort to keep the same pace and my average commuting time is definitely slower this week. Is it me? Is it the tires? I've read a few thread on this forum stating that a bigger tire shouldn't make you slower but I don't agree so far.
It may just be the tires, they're Schwalbe Delta Cruiser 700x28, anyone familiar with those?
Bigger is definitely more comfortable but I choose speed over comfort.
Anyone having the same impression?
#2
incazzare.
Oh, it's the tires for sure. Those things are super heavy. You might want to do some research and choose a better tire.
Edit: for me, 700x28 is the minimum size tire I ride. I have some Challenge Parigi-Roubaix tires that are labeled 27mm but actually are about 29mm on the wheel. These things feel super fast and they weigh literally half what your tires do.
Edit: for me, 700x28 is the minimum size tire I ride. I have some Challenge Parigi-Roubaix tires that are labeled 27mm but actually are about 29mm on the wheel. These things feel super fast and they weigh literally half what your tires do.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,868 Times
in
1,439 Posts
Yeah, I'd blame the tire. You doubled your tire weight and went from a tire with a performance rubber compound to one with a basic compound.
In my experience, heavier tires definitely feel slower and sometimes they are slower. The biggest factor though, I think, is that when the tire feels slower your legs tend to want to hold back to compensate. I had a thread a while ago about timing myself at all out effort on a tire that I was convinced was significantly slower than the tires I had been using. I ended up recording my fastest time from home to work ever with any tire. Those tires (700x35 Marathon Supremes) still feel slower to me.
By the way, the "fast" tire that I was comparing against was a 700x28 Conti GP 4 Seasons. I highly recommend it.
In my experience, heavier tires definitely feel slower and sometimes they are slower. The biggest factor though, I think, is that when the tire feels slower your legs tend to want to hold back to compensate. I had a thread a while ago about timing myself at all out effort on a tire that I was convinced was significantly slower than the tires I had been using. I ended up recording my fastest time from home to work ever with any tire. Those tires (700x35 Marathon Supremes) still feel slower to me.
By the way, the "fast" tire that I was comparing against was a 700x28 Conti GP 4 Seasons. I highly recommend it.
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Snow Hill NC
Posts: 872
Bikes: Trek Madone 2.1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
What kind of pressure can go in them beasts? LOL...Gotta be the tire... i went from 23 to 25 and i kept the same pressure and it rides way better...
#5
The Recumbent Quant
Tire weight isn't that important (unless you race where every second counts). Tire composition and pressure can be hugely important. As been said above, going from a performance tire to non-performance may produce less flats, but will definitely be noticeable as far as speed.
#6
ouate de phoque
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: La Prairie, Qc, Canada
Posts: 1,781
Bikes: Bianchi, Nakamura,Opus
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks guys, I'll put those on the wife's bike (she won't notice a thing) and get me another set of tires.
I commute on a triathlon bike so in the size 700x25 or 700x28 what can you reccomend that will be longlasting but still fast ( I don't care about puncture resistance, really)
I commute on a triathlon bike so in the size 700x25 or 700x28 what can you reccomend that will be longlasting but still fast ( I don't care about puncture resistance, really)
#7
Junior Member
Thanks guys, I'll put those on the wife's bike (she won't notice a thing) and get me another set of tires.
I commute on a triathlon bike so in the size 700x25 or 700x28 what can you reccomend that will be longlasting but still fast ( I don't care about puncture resistance, really)
I commute on a triathlon bike so in the size 700x25 or 700x28 what can you reccomend that will be longlasting but still fast ( I don't care about puncture resistance, really)
#8
Really Old Senior Member
I don't think that mileage was bad for a rear. They only last about 1/3-1/2 as long as a front.
I use these in 26mm and have been VERY pleased with them. I've got about 2000 miles on them and wouldn't be surprised to get that much more with my 230 lbs. The actual max pressure listed ON the tire is 140 PSI, not the 115 listed on the website.
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...t-tire-folding
I think a heavier tire slows me down.
I don't ride like a "machine", often coasting a bit to get a couple breaths and then accelerating again. The lighter tire accelerates easier.
I use these in 26mm and have been VERY pleased with them. I've got about 2000 miles on them and wouldn't be surprised to get that much more with my 230 lbs. The actual max pressure listed ON the tire is 140 PSI, not the 115 listed on the website.
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...t-tire-folding
I think a heavier tire slows me down.
I don't ride like a "machine", often coasting a bit to get a couple breaths and then accelerating again. The lighter tire accelerates easier.
#9
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,502
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7348 Post(s)
Liked 2,463 Times
in
1,433 Posts
Believe it or not, lowering your pressure might help. Inflating a tire above its ideal pressure can do this. There's a good chance you continued your habit of using whatever pressure you were using on the 23mm tire.
Use the chart in this article for reference. Bear in mind that the weights they give are for weight on one wheel, not the entire bike.
I suggest you try some GOOD 28mm tires. You may never go back to narrower.
Use the chart in this article for reference. Bear in mind that the weights they give are for weight on one wheel, not the entire bike.
I suggest you try some GOOD 28mm tires. You may never go back to narrower.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#10
incazzare.
I find the very affordable Panaracer Paselas to be very nice feeling tires. The Tourguard (flat resistant) models are actually lighter than the normal ones if you get the version with a kevlar bead.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,868 Times
in
1,439 Posts
I've got to take issue with this. From a strict measurement perspective you're certainly correct. Tire weight makes a minuscule difference in time. However, I'm convinced that you feel the weight, even with similar tire composition. I realize that it's nearly impossible to compare apples to apples here, but when you're talking about doubling the weight I don't think composition and pressure alone explain the difference in feel.
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
#12
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
In my experience, heavier tires definitely feel slower and sometimes they are slower. The biggest factor though, I think, is that when the tire feels slower your legs tend to want to hold back to compensate. I had a thread a while ago about timing myself at all out effort on a tire that I was convinced was significantly slower than the tires I had been using. I ended up recording my fastest time from home to work ever with any tire. Those tires (700x35 Marathon Supremes) still feel slower to me.
I've chalked it up to the increased cushion masking the road buzz making the bike seem slower, and the higher position interfering with my aerodynamics. When I repeat the same routes on my roadier bikes, I'm still working hard to go fast, so I think there's more psychology at play than most would realize.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,896
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
You could be slower due to the heavier weight of the larger tires and also the rolling resistance. Heavier tires make a big difference on hills or when accelerating. Rolling resistance affects you all of the time. (Sort of like comparing the affects of elevation gain vs wind.) Conti GP 4 Seasons roll pretty nice and are reasonably light weight for 28s. Other comparable 28s include Clement Strada and Vittorio Rubino Pro and Rivendell Rolly Poly.
#14
The Recumbent Quant
I've got to take issue with this. From a strict measurement perspective you're certainly correct. Tire weight makes a minuscule difference in time. However, I'm convinced that you feel the weight, even with similar tire composition. I realize that it's nearly impossible to compare apples to apples here, but when you're talking about doubling the weight I don't think composition and pressure alone explain the difference in feel.
As far as acceleration and top speed go, it's really a non-issue to pretty much everybody except somebody racing (and even the pros are going wider now).
#15
Junior Member
Believe it or not, lowering your pressure might help. Inflating a tire above its ideal pressure can do this. There's a good chance you continued your habit of using whatever pressure you were using on the 23mm tire.
Use the chart in this article for reference. Bear in mind that the weights they give are for weight on one wheel, not the entire bike.
I suggest you try some GOOD 28mm tires. You may never go back to narrower.
Use the chart in this article for reference. Bear in mind that the weights they give are for weight on one wheel, not the entire bike.
I suggest you try some GOOD 28mm tires. You may never go back to narrower.
#16
Señior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Heh, I have been riding a road bike all year with 23s. Two days ago I took delivery of my new winter bike and it came with Big Apple 700x50s! I rode it to work yesterday, and while I did appreciate the feel of the ride - it felt like I was riding around on a mattress - I did not appreciate the fact that my legs were absolutely burning trying to keep up a decent speed (and failing).
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,896
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
My touring and cyclocross bikes have fast-rolling 32 mm tires (Vittoria Rando Hypers and Rivendell Jack Browns). I can maintain a decent average speed on both bikes, but it takes more work, and you really notice it on the hills. My other road bikes have 23s, 25s and 28s. I don't notice any difference in speed/hill climbing between the 23s and 25s, but the 28s seem a little more sluggish. All of my tires are relatively lightweight folders.
#18
Senior Member
I have Vittoria Rubino Pro on my road bike and I really like them. Apparently, they are quite durable and puncture resistant. However, they don't come in 28, only 23 and 25. However, the Vittoria Rubino (not Pro) do come in 28 (345gr) as well as the Rubino Pro Tech (280gr), the Zaffiro Pro (290gr) and the Zaffiro (400gr).
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,896
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
I've got some Rubinos in size 28. Not sure if they are the Tech or Pro version, but they have folding beads and weigh less than 300 g. I haven't installed the Rubino 28s yet but have been running the 25s on other bikes for a while and really like the way they roll. They have been long-wearing and flat resistant as well.
#20
Kitten Legion Master
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 900
Bikes: Fuji silhouette, Dawes SST-aL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks guys, I'll put those on the wife's bike (she won't notice a thing) and get me another set of tires.
I commute on a triathlon bike so in the size 700x25 or 700x28 what can you reccomend that will be longlasting but still fast ( I don't care about puncture resistance, really)
I commute on a triathlon bike so in the size 700x25 or 700x28 what can you reccomend that will be longlasting but still fast ( I don't care about puncture resistance, really)
You also mentioned that you prefer speed over comfort and you do not care about puncture resistance... Hmmmm...
So, you want a long lasting tire that is fast.
Last edited by ben4345; 09-27-13 at 06:52 PM.
#21
Just a person on bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140
Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times
in
56 Posts
Believe it or not, lowering your pressure might help. Inflating a tire above its ideal pressure can do this. There's a good chance you continued your habit of using whatever pressure you were using on the 23mm tire.
Use the chart in this article for reference. Bear in mind that the weights they give are for weight on one wheel, not the entire bike.
Use the chart in this article for reference. Bear in mind that the weights they give are for weight on one wheel, not the entire bike.
__________________
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
#22
Kitten Legion Master
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 900
Bikes: Fuji silhouette, Dawes SST-aL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm a novice, but I wonder about the accuracy of the chart. I weigh 140 lbs (fully clothed). Even with a 20-pound luggage, I only give approximately 80 lbs to each wheel. I have 700x28 tyres, which means according to the chart, my tyre should have no higher than 60 psi. Does that really make sense? The pressure numbers written on the tyre are 100-120 (min-max) psi.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
https://www.conti-online.com/www/down...gp4000s_en.pdf
If shorter tire life is acceptable ride the GP4000s if it comes in your size (25mm tops).
If not the Gatorskins are an OK rolling and riding tire compared to others with flat protection and long life which is over twice the miles of GP4 Seasons provided you don't damage the sidewalls before wearing them to the cords.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-27-13 at 07:44 PM.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
The slowest road tires have twice the rolling resistance of the fastest so when moving to a wider tire means a slower construction the results can be significant.