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  1. #26
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Let's get rid of the compact disc since it has no bearing on the discussion.
    Yes it does. It shows what a disc is. A wheel rim is not a disc. Discs are flat. A wheel rim is a hoop.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Now look at the hub mounted disc rotor. It is made from a flat steel round that has been relieved to save weight. But the only part of the rotor that you need is the part that the brake pad contacts and the part that connects it to the hub. The spokes connecting them are no different from the spokes of a wheel. You could even thin them down to the point where they were wires. You'd need more of them and someway to resist twisting but then you'd just have a small sized wheel.

    The braking surface of a rim brake is exactly the same as the braking surface of a rotor. It's a spinning metal disc that is clamped between two friction pads. With mechanical disc, only one pad moves while a hydraulic (usually) moves both pads towards the rotor which is the way that all rim brakes work.

    A hoop is still a disc of metal. It's just missing the middle bit.
    When you were a kid,you used to hammer the square peg into the round hole,didn't you?

    Wheel rims are not discs. I've no idea why you insist on saying they are. And I've no idea what bearing it would be on a disc vs rim conversation if they were considered discs.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L

  2. #27
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    to stir things up even further. i consider rim brakes and mechanical disc brakes to be inferior technology. decent hydraulics offer better modulation, more power, easier set up, and less adjustment.
    For my braking needs on the road, hydraulics would be way cool, but total overkill. Heavier and more expensive than rim brakes; more expensive and maintenance intensive than cable discs.

    And just for fun:

    Compare a disc brake rotor to a BMX mag wheel in context to the "rim brakes are/are not disk brakes" argument. Mag wheel ain't no hoop.

    Conversely, full floater disc brake rotors very much more resemble a hoop, especially since they are even more loosely attached to their carrier than rims ever are...

    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post

    And if any brake feels inadequate on a test ride the problem is with the set up, not with the brakes not being bedded in. All of my disc equipped bikes have worked fine out of the box if they were set up properly
    This is completely wrong. New pads on new or used rotors benefit from bedding in and braking performance improves thereafter.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by montanafan View Post
    This is completely wrong. New pads on new or used rotors benefit from bedding in and braking performance improves thereafter.
    Sometimes I think he says stuff like that deliberately just to vex people who know better. It's funny how NONE of his disc-brake experience matches up with factory recommendations, professionals' experiences, or the majority of current disc users.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
    For my braking needs on the road, hydraulics would be way cool, but total overkill...heavier...maintenance intensive
    definitely more expensive for now. however, hydros paired with a disc rim are now weight competitive. moreover, a good set of mineral oil hydros are basically service free for years (other than replacing the pads).
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

  6. #31
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
    definitely more expensive for now. however, hydros paired with a disc rim are now weight competitive. moreover, a good set of mineral oil hydros are basically service free for years (other than replacing the pads).
    yeah...

    It will still be a few years before road hydraulics get to the point where they are generally affordable and available. For 2014, it's Red and Ultegra Di2. When we get to 105/Apex hydro with mechanical shifting, is when more than the few get on board with it.

    Mechanical disc road systems just aren't quite there yet. IMHO. The TRP HyRd is a step in the right direction.

    A flat bar road bike w/ Shimano brakes is reasonable and fantastic right now; drop bar discs, not so much. Couple years.
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    Disc brakes don't suck...rim brakes are, in fact, disc brakes...it's just that they aren't as much of an improvement as everyone tout them to be. A hub disc equipped bike doesn't stop any any shorter distance than a rim brake equipped bike if both systems have been properly set up.



    I am also a clyde who rides hard. I do have "full experience" with discs as well as with rim brakes, I mountain biked many years on cantilevers, then many years on linear and many years on disc. I do fully loaded bicycle tours...me, bike and touring load are probably dragging 300 lb...through all kinds of terrrain including fast steep descents on steep mountain roads in rain. In none of my experience has the a hub mounted disc brake made much difference. I can ride just as fast downhill and stop with just the same amount of lever force with any brake system I have...disc, linear or cantilever.

    Brakes are more about how they are used than the mechanism.
    Please come out of the dark ages. Every mountain bike over $400.00 sold in the last 5 years comes with disk brakes. Why? They work better in the nasty conditions like mud, rain, slush and snow. Your experience may be different. For me as well as the 99.5 percent of the other users, they are a better brake. If you live in AZ or FL, nobody cares. Yes , rim brakes do an OK job. I like the less work and mess with disc brakes. Try some BB7'S or new XT's or some nice avid elixers. You might be surprised.

  8. #33
    Intrepid Bicycle Commuter AlmostGreenGuy's Avatar
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    I've been running disc brakes on my commuter for the last 2 years. They are far less fiddly, and far more consistent in varying weather conditions than the v-brakes and canti's on my other bikes. No doubt about it. For the most part, I never have to do much other than a tiny adjustment on the front brake every thousand miles or so, to account for pad wear. Heck, I'm still on my original rear brake pad, and it's not even close to needing to be changed. My first front pad lasted for 5,000 miles before I needed to change it.

    I love that I never have to think about my disc brakes. Is it raining? Who cares? I have disc brakes. I know that it'll take the same distance to stop today, as it did on the sunny day yesterday. I can't say that about V-brakes or canti's, in my experience. At least not with a straight face.

    V-brakes and canti's are for people that like to fiddle with their bikes constantly. Discs are for people that like to actually ride their bikes. Weight weenies exempted, of course.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostGreenGuy View Post
    Weight weenies exempted, of course.
    Actually disc specific hoops typically drop 50-60 gms per rim so at the top end we are talking 50-100 gms. Even less if you use a carbon rotor.
    This is why motorists hate us, and why I've given up riding on the road...You should be ashamed yourself, and you should be reviled by cyclists everywhere.

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