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  1. #176
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Oh you want videos?

    music videos to serve as a tribute dead DJs only please. the DJ died because the roof of his parisian penthouse collapsed while he was performing on it, of all things
    Last edited by acidfast7; 10-30-13 at 01:22 PM.
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
    Rohloffs seen on the commute: 3

  2. #177
    Senior Member WestMass's Avatar
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    ha ha I read the whole thread and was getting frustrated because I had no idea what a BSO was!!
    regular commuter, adventurer/explorer of backroads and mtb trails
    http://westernmass.craigslist.org/search/sss?userid=14603943

  3. #178
    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    also, i'm not so sure what makes that bike so great ... don't say frame as i'm not sure that over the average first-owner-bike-lifetime there will be difference between 520 and hi-ten. alu and steel yes, steel vs. steel not so much.
    Ummm...why don't you compare the rear or front dropouts (look at them [rear dropouts], research this carefully, then report back), or the fork crown, or the finish, or the headset, or the crankset, or the chain, or the brake calipers, or the saddle...Never mind a head-to-head ride comparison. C'mon now...

    Seriously? What is your academic discipline anyway? Not science or engineering, I'm guessing...since your "test" has no benchmark or standards given, and no criteria, little data reporting and no analysis. Maybe you're in the humanities or arts? Tenure decades away?
    Last edited by Phil_gretz; 10-30-13 at 06:47 PM.

  4. #179
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
    Ummm...why don't you compare the rear or front dropouts (look at them [rear dropouts], research this carefully, then report back), or the fork crown, or the finish, or the headset, or the crankset, or the chain, or the brake calipers, or the saddle...Never mind a head-to-head ride comparison. C'mon now...

    Seriously? What is your academic discipline anyway? Not science or engineering, I'm guessing...since your "test" has no benchmark or standards given, and no criteria, little data reporting and no analysis. Maybe you're in the humanities or arts? Tenure decades away?


    thanks for the trash talk ... why don't you go head-to-head against my mangobike if you're so confident?

    a lot of trash-talking but no direct competition ... just about what I expected from BF ... a lot of big talk but nothing behind

    Photo on 31-10-2013 at 02.26.jpg
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  5. #180
    Must... ride... more... Phil_gretz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post


    thanks for the trash talk ... why don't you go head-to-head against my mangobike if you're so confident?

    a lot of trash-talking but no direct competition ... just about what I expected from BF ... a lot of big talk but nothing behind
    You know, acidfast7, I've re-read the thread and better understand what you're trying to show with this experiment. I think that my last response was over the top, and I apologize for the challenging tone that it took. My bad.

    Your question was whether the original owner could really tell the difference between seemingly similar bikes...and I think that I'd respond "it depends". Sometimes the differences between how the bikes are set up (whether hubs are binding, or whether the chain line is off) can create a perceptible difference.

    And further, much depends on the sensitivity and experience of the rider - at least in terms of the subjective aspects of whether a bike feels "lively" or "responsive". I know that I can tell the difference between the feel of bikes that I own and ride on the road. I have another bike, a middle-of-the-road 1980s road bike, that has really nice sealed bearing hubs laced to original rims. It is a joy to ride. I can't explain it - it's not the frame, per se, but the combination that is out of this world...

    Anyway, I hope that you enjoy your bike and continue to get satisfactory use from it. I'd be interested if you do have component wear or other issues that crop up with its continued use.

    Again, sorry about the combative tone. It wasn't called for. Phil G.

  6. #181
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
    You know, acidfast7, I've re-read the thread and better understand what you're trying to show with this experiment. I think that my last response was over the top, and I apologize for the challenging tone that it took. My bad.

    Your question was whether the original owner could really tell the difference between seemingly similar bikes...and I think that I'd respond "it depends". Sometimes the differences between how the bikes are set up (whether hubs are binding, or whether the chain line is off) can create a perceptible difference.

    And further, much depends on the sensitivity and experience of the rider - at least in terms of the subjective aspects of whether a bike feels "lively" or "responsive". I know that I can tell the difference between the feel of bikes that I own and ride on the road. I have another bike, a middle-of-the-road 1980s road bike, that has really nice sealed bearing hubs laced to original rims. It is a joy to ride. I can't explain it - it's not the frame, per se, but the combination that is out of this world...

    Anyway, I hope that you enjoy your bike and continue to get satisfactory use from it. I'd be interested if you do have component wear or other issues that crop up with its continued use.

    Again, sorry about the combative tone. It wasn't called for. Phil G.
    It's OK. No need to apologise.

    I usually quite an a-hole on BF, so I'm the last person to whom anyone should apologise.

    I have a photo after every single ride and I'm curious what will wear out first. Perhaps nothing for a very long time because I only ride 20km/day and it seems like I'm doing a lot of traveling so I don't even go to work that many days anymore.
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  7. #182
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    all is still good although it is beginning to get colder in the evening

    Photo on 01-11-2013 at 19.25 #3.jpg
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  8. #183
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    interesting development ... for 100 one can get a Nexus3 hub added to same bike ... guys at work say 3-speed is more than enough for the UK. I do have the hardware on the frame to add it as well ... interesting.

    Screen Shot 2013-11-01 at 20.34.15.jpg
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  9. #184
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    interesting development ... for 100 one can get a Nexus3 hub added to same bike ... guys at work say 3-speed is more than enough for the UK. I do have the hardware on the frame to add it as well ... interesting.

    Screen Shot 2013-11-01 at 20.34.15.jpg
    Would you still consider the bike a BSO? Are there still plenty of 20 year old or older 3 speed Raleighs available in the UK? If so how much do they go for if serviceable and not being sold as a "collector" classic ? I presume a lot less than you paid for your BSO.

  10. #185
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    I agree it hardly fits the BSO description. Its too expensive with too few components to actually go wrong.

    This is proper BSO:
    http://www.tesco.com/direct/terrain-...skuId=211-5870

    Full-suspension, 18 speed, for less than half the price he paid.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsa103 View Post
    I agree it hardly fits the BSO description. Its too expensive with too few components to actually go wrong.

    This is proper BSO:
    http://www.tesco.com/direct/terrain-...skuId=211-5870

    Full-suspension, 18 speed, for less than half the price he paid.
    And here is another from Brit Walmart:

    http://direct.asda.com/Fifth-Avenue-...efault,pd.html

    135.00 for a 700c with 18 speed shimano drive train.
    Road rash is a precious gift. Road rash is your friend. Bask in it, appreciate it, love it. Above all, learn from it. --Robert Hurst

  12. #187
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    i love BF ...

    1. one set of people said I paid too much and am a "hipster."
    2. another set of people say that it's a total piece of crap and that I way overpaid for the components
    3. another set of people said that it's too expensive to be a BSO.
    4. most people in set 1, set 2 and set 3 have no understanding about VAT and GBP:USD conversions.

    at BF

    logged another ride today and it still seems great!
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  13. #188
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    i love BF ...

    1. one set of people said I paid too much and am a "hipster."
    2. another set of people say that it's a total piece of crap and that I way overpaid for the components
    3. another set of people said that it's too expensive to be a BSO.
    4. most people in set 1, set 2 and set 3 have no understanding about VAT and GBP:USD conversions.

    at BF

    logged another ride today and it still seems great!
    For the record, I'm in the third set, but I have a great understanding of both VAT and GBPUSD conversions and currency trading (so I'm not in set/point 4). After taking GPDUSD into account and VAT, I think you paid to much, but you definitely ain't a hipster.

    Are you enjoying the bike? Looks like it. Was it ridiculous overpriced? No, probably not. So from that point of you, I think you did well.

    Are you still enjoying this thread? I'll leave that one as an exercise for the reader.
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  14. #189
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    i love BF ...

    1. one set of people said I paid too much and am a "hipster."
    2. another set of people say that it's a total piece of crap and that I way overpaid for the components
    3. another set of people said that it's too expensive to be a BSO.
    4. most people in set 1, set 2 and set 3 have no understanding about VAT and GBP:USD conversions.

    at BF

    logged another ride today and it still seems great!
    I am in parts of 1, 2, and 3 since I think you paid too much for a bike that is intended to be used for a long term test of a so-called BSO. I know very well about Value Added Taxes and money conversion rates since I dealt with both for 10 years while living in Germany and traveling through Europe, most of it before the Euro was implemented.

    Bottom line:
    You paid too much if you were really intending to get a so-called BSO for a long term test. I expect your test results will have little to no relevance to anyone looking for an inexpensive bike for commuter use, due to your choice in the "test" bike.

    You got too little for your money if you were looking for a basic commute to work bike.

  15. #190
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    interesting development ... for 100 one can get a Nexus3 hub added to same bike ... guys at work say 3-speed is more than enough for the UK. I do have the hardware on the frame to add it as well ... interesting.
    It depends on where. There are some hills that are amazingly challenging even with a modern bike with a wall-climbing gear.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

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  16. #191
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post

    You got too little for your money if you were looking for a basic commute to work bike.
    That will be determined by the long-term test, will it not?
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  17. #192
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    It depends on where. There are some hills that are amazingly challenging even with a modern bike with a wall-climbing gear.
    I agree. My British colleagues are nostalgic about the 3-speed concept though and state that "3 speed are more than enough to cross the country."
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  18. #193
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    That will be determined by the long-term test, will it not?
    Possibly. Might also be useful if you compare your costs with the costs of long term use of a used Raleigh or other English/European 3 speed in the same locale as yours. Perhaps you could find poll some such long time users about their estimated costs over the last 20-30 years of use.

  19. #194
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Possibly. Might also be useful if you compare your costs with the costs of long term use of a used Raleigh or other English/European 3 speed in the same locale as yours. Perhaps you could find poll some such long time users about their estimated costs over the last 20-30 years of use.
    I think it's important to document a thorough protocol first that way others can follow.

    Currently, I just want to recover my costs of lights, a lock, a cycloputer and the bike against the bus first and then I'll be making money
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  20. #195
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    I agree. My British colleagues are nostalgic about the 3-speed concept though and state that "3 speed are more than enough to cross the country."
    I assume you didn't buy the so-called BSO to cross the country. I know I didn't buy my commuter bike to cross the Rockies.
    3 speeds certainly are better than one for negotiating hills on a commute, especially a fixed one gear that never lets the cyclist rest while coasting down any hill.

  21. #196
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    I assume you didn't buy the so-called BSO to cross the country. I know I didn't buy my commuter bike to cross the Rockies.
    3 speeds certainly are better than one for negotiating hills on a commute, especially a fixed one gear that never lets the cyclist rest while coasting down any hill.
    England is not wide

    Just a quick jaunt along Hadrian's Wall perhaps:

    3f9Sr.jpg
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  22. #197
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
    England is not wide

    Just a quick jaunt along Hadrian's Wall perhaps:

    3f9Sr.jpg
    Is this "BSO" now your only bicycle? I assume you could afford more than one, why would you handicap yourself with a fixed gear for this jaunt; for the purposes of your long-term test?

  23. #198
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Is this "BSO" now your only bicycle? I assume you could afford more than one, why would you handicap yourself with a fixed gear for this jaunt; for the purposes of your long-term test?
    all of my stuff is in Germany still, so this is my only bike.

    i find that people respond quite positively to my BSO.

    girls and kids particularly like it and ask about it. grown men think it's kind of strange but usually by me a pint to discuss about it.

    so far it's been a great situation especially as it really stands out colour-wise now as the grey rainy season is rapidly approaching.

    i like bringing a little craziness to people's otherwise grey and boring lives
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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  24. #199
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    The Americas are not wide either , at Panama. where they built the Canal .

  25. #200
    http://www.538.nl acidfast7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    The Americas are not wide either , at Panama. where they built the Canal .
    that canal is old news. china is financing another one.
    Movimento 5 Stelle (M5S)
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