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Old 11-18-13, 10:38 AM   #126
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+1 The stretch of sidewalk I ride is the road that leads to the I-285 overpass. There is no "just go another street over" because there just aren't many roads that go over the interstate. The "alternative" route is to play Frogger on the interstate.
This is similar to the situation that makes it so I have to ride on the sidewalk.
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Old 11-18-13, 12:47 PM   #127
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LOL, I love that Walter Matheau comment! Wait, why aren't we judging him by calling him that? LOL!!!
It's a great choice when you run out of logical points in support of your viewpoint :-)
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Old 11-18-13, 12:54 PM   #128
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I still don't get the heat.

If you ride on sidewalks occasionally, why would you care what anybody here on the forum thinks about it. You've made your own decision and don't owe anybody (except maybe a local cop or judge) any explanation or justification.

OTOH- if you believe that riding on the sidewalk is some sort of cardinal sin, why would you care is some anonymous person in some othr city, state or country far from you feels it's justified. As long as he's not crossing your path, or running down your family, you have no dog in the fight.

I know that there are some who believe that ANYTHING any cyclist does reflects on all cyclists, but the conflict on this thread is carrying it to ridiculous extremes.

As far as I care, anyone may ride on a sidewalk for whatever reason he feels makes sense, as long as he's respectful of those who belong there - namely the pedestrians. Otherwise it falls under the No harm-- no foul rule.
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Old 11-18-13, 01:11 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
It's a great choice when you run out of logical points in support of your viewpoint :-)
Only cause you sound like a stubborn old bean.
I just thought I'd ad in humour since some were taking it way too serious.

Can't reason with someone stuck in their ways.
Logic & personal opinion are 2 completely different things.

I clearly said I didn't agree with riding on the sidewalk in every post I made. I never said anyone who does should never do it.
Sure I offer some simple options to try to avoid sidewalks but you contine to shoot them down, thinking you're above the law.
How's that for logic?

You be Walt, I be Jack.
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Old 11-18-13, 01:14 PM   #130
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+1 The stretch of sidewalk I ride is the road that leads to the I-285 overpass. There is no "just go another street over" because there just aren't many roads that go over the interstate. The "alternative" route is to play Frogger on the interstate.
Yes. I ride the "walking" (oh no) bridge that goes over GA 400 in Buckhead. A few times a year I encounter a pedestrian. I just slow down. The path is 10 feet wide. With some care I think even a klutz like me can avoid endangering the public on that rare day I have the opportunity.

I actually learned this route from my tomtom app that included in a bicycle route. I should report them to the police for conspiring me to break the law like that.
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Old 11-18-13, 02:05 PM   #131
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I never said anyone who does should never do it.
Sure I offer some simple options to try to avoid sidewalks but you contine to shoot them down, thinking you're above the law.
You can change your position if you want to. But admit to it. When you say "Riding on the sidewalk is a disaster waiting to happen, dismount & act like a pedestrian." you're not telling us how YOU ride. You're telling us how TO ride.

Me, I have not asked you to ride on the sidewalk at all. Only explained why I sometimes do that. Read what you wrote. You talk a little bit about yourself but mostly about how other people should behave. Even when you talk about yourself it's in an holier than thou attitude about what a great citizen and honor to the bicycling community you are. And then you also insist when people say they don't feel safe, that they do it anyway. I suppose as a human sacrifice for the good of cycling around the world.

My point has been that riding on the sidewalk can be safe. It's not all or nothing.

No, I don't really think of myself as above the law. I just think of the law as beneath me :-)

Seriously, I consider the law and the rational for it. But I won't be bound by it all of the time. Laws are not as complex as the real world. The law must be simpler by necessity. That also makes it inappropriate advice sometimes from my perspective.
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Old 11-18-13, 03:58 PM   #132
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Again that's me sharing my views/opinions.
We're just having a debate of sorts. Clashing views/opinions.
I never once told you you "have to", only that you "should" consider:
-a different route
-dismounting & walking
-yadda yadda yadda.

I'm not trying to sound "holier than thou", I'm just trying to avoid I'm getting fined. Which in turn would diminish the love I have for cycling. I get fines driving, but I drive only when I have to.
I ride cause I love it. If I happen to like abiding our laws good for me. If you choose not to good for you.
I don't need to be worrying about cops, or even what anyone else thinkks when I'm enjoying my rides/commutes. I'm within our laws, & am not doing anything to warrant a fine, or any ill will I might encounter while riding.
Why do drivers suddenly get the ok to break the laws?
When they see cyclist running reds,stop signs,riding on sidewalks, etc. They think WTH? Or that's where they should be riding. When they should be conforming to the fact people are considering commuting by bike more seriously.
If you let them push you around, you're really not doing anything to help the way society views cyclist, or the way they should view us.

I'm done with going back & forth, its not going anywhere really.
Tried to break it up with humor, but it just keeps coming back to ground zero

You're either on one side or the other that's life.
Balance is a nice achievement, but its not an easy task.
Politics always has to rear its ugly head.
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Old 11-18-13, 04:04 PM   #133
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how about you two call a truce and have a couple of beers.
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Old 11-18-13, 04:06 PM   #134
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how about you two call a truce and have a couple of beers.
Basically what my closing statement was...
I don't do beer, but I'll take a smoothie.
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Old 11-19-13, 09:00 AM   #135
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Attempts at universal behavior control aside, for where I ride, 'the math doesn't work' for 'minimizing anger against cyclists' by avoiding sidewalks - here's why. My choice is between riding on sparsely used sidewalks or heavily used roads. The ratio where I have to make the choice is at least 10 cars to 1 sidewalk user. The folks on those roads are 1) controlling thousands of pounds of high speed metal boxes, 2) distracted by texting, radio, other drivers, complications of their own lives, 3) isolated from having to interact with other humans on a personal level. The folks on the sidewalk are not subject to #1 , most of #2 , and MOST IMPORTANTLY #3 . So absent the rest of my point below, the math is do I anger hundreds of distracted drivers controlling tons of threatening machines or do I anger tens of pedestrians who present significant lower threat.

But that's not the important part IMHO . . . the important difference is that I have the opportunity to interact with the pedestrians on a personal level - I can be polite and respect their activities by slowing down and asking permission to pass (giving them time to adjust). I can thank them for allowing me to pass. It's all about contact at a personal level. There's no opportunity for this with people driving in cars.

I will continue to ride on sidewalks where the above applies. The rest of you can choose for yourselves.
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Old 11-19-13, 11:10 AM   #136
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Actually, I find that almost everyone on the sidewalks here (cyclist or otherwise) are distracted by texting/radio/etc. In fact, back when I used to bike exclusively on sidewalks, they were the biggest problem of all. It was an iPod-listing pedestrian that lead to me crashing and doing an endo one morning on the way to work, which was the final nail in the coffin for sidewalks for me.

Simply, peds are just as distracted and unresponsive...sometimes even more so.

M.
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Old 11-19-13, 11:13 AM   #137
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.... they were the biggest problem of all. It was an iPod-listing pedestrian that lead to me crashing and doing an endo one morning on the way to work, ....

Simply, peds are just as distracted and unresponsive...sometimes even more so.

M.
I'm not in any way a sidewalk nazi, but you're 100% in the wrong here. The sidewalk belongs to pedestrians, whether on their ipods or not. They didn't cause your endo, you did. If/when you ride a bike on the sidewalk, it's your responsibility to avoid pedestrians, not theirs to avoid you.
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Old 11-19-13, 06:59 PM   #138
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Attempts at universal behavior control aside,
I will continue to ride on sidewalks where the above applies. The rest of you can choose for yourselves.
Universal behavior control? I agree with you! Yup, so stay off the sidewalk because I can't stand driving down streets with cars so I'm going to take my car down the sidewalk, screw universal behavior control, and forget you for being in my way when I run you over, because I to find it safer to drive my car down the sidewalk hitting people instead of cars, a lot less damage to my car that way.

Do you hear yourself talking or you just blab on and on totally numb to reality?
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Old 11-19-13, 08:45 PM   #139
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I'm not in any way a sidewalk nazi, but you're 100% in the wrong here. The sidewalk belongs to pedestrians, whether on their ipods or not. They didn't cause your endo, you did. If/when you ride a bike on the sidewalk, it's your responsibility to avoid pedestrians, not theirs to avoid you.
Actually, a complex series of physics equations caused it, but that's besides the point. Evidently I don't communicate well, because what I was trying to say is exactly what you said. The problem with trying to negotiate sidewalk traffic is that you cannot rely on peds to be fully aware.

M.
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Old 11-20-13, 09:02 AM   #140
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I still don't get the heat.

If you ride on sidewalks occasionally, why would you care what anybody here on the forum thinks about it. You've made your own decision and don't owe anybody (except maybe a local cop or judge) any explanation or justification.

OTOH- if you believe that riding on the sidewalk is some sort of cardinal sin, why would you care is some anonymous person in some othr city, state or country far from you feels it's justified. As long as he's not crossing your path, or running down your family, you have no dog in the fight.

I know that there are some who believe that ANYTHING any cyclist does reflects on all cyclists, but the conflict on this thread is carrying it to ridiculous extremes.

As far as I care, anyone may ride on a sidewalk for whatever reason he feels makes sense, as long as he's respectful of those who belong there - namely the pedestrians. Otherwise it falls under the No harm-- no foul rule.
^ this, another well stated comment.
Really, I have never heard that riding on sidewalks is illegal. It certainly isn't around here. I see bums riding on the wrong side of the street all the time and really slow people riding on the sidewalks because they certainly cannot ride with us on the street. The authorities leave them alone because it's what they are comfortable with, and are not bothering anyone. Like I mentioned before, I use a multi-use sidewalk and then a short section of regular sidewalk just to get out of an extremely busy intersection with no shoulder or anywhere else to ride except in the lane and I can't do 30 mph so I'm in the way holding up a long string of cars. That is the only place I do that, and don't enjoy it. I much prefer the street but I sure am thankful to have that option so I can leave my office area and slowly leave the city in one piece. There cannot be a hard and fast rule about this unless our bikes can accelerate and maintain regular traffic speeds like motorcycles. Other than that section, always on the street for me.
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Old 11-20-13, 02:17 PM   #141
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Like I mentioned before, I use a multi-use sidewalk and then a short section of regular sidewalk just to get out of an extremely busy intersection with no shoulder or anywhere else to ride except in the lane and I can't do 30 mph so I'm in the way holding up a long string of cars. That is the only place I do that, and don't enjoy it. I much prefer the street but I sure am thankful to have that option so I can leave my office area and slowly leave the city in one piece.
Agreed. It is legal to ride on the sidewalks here in WA, and even i it weren't, I would still believe there are situations where riding on the sidewalk is safer.

Quote:
There cannot be a hard and fast rule about this unless our bikes can accelerate and maintain regular traffic speeds like motorcycles. Other than that section, always on the street for me.

Or unless good bike infrastructure is in place, like in Copenhagen and Amsterdam.
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Old 11-22-13, 01:51 AM   #142
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I rode on stretches of sidewalk on my commute home tonight (legal in my state). It was fun. As usual, not a pedestrian in sight. Neener, neener.
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Old 11-22-13, 02:33 AM   #143
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Vermont State Law

State law restricts motor vehicles from driving on sidewalks, but

does not prohibit other vehicles (including bicycles). However,
Vermont municipalities may regulate sidewalks (24 VSA § 2291,
as above)

Many Vermont municipalities have exercised this right and have
established laws about sidewalk bicycle riding; some prohibit it,
and some require it. F
or example, Burlington city ordinance
forbids bicyclists over age 16 to ride on the sidewalk. Rutland
requires bicyclists to use the sidewalks along Routes 4 & 7; such
regulations are established at the discretion of the chief of
police. Brandon ordinance makes it unlawful for bicyclists of
any age to ride on sidewalks between the Brandon Inn and the

Town Office; in other areas, bicycles may be ridden on

sidewalks but pedestrians have the right of way.
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Old 11-22-13, 08:28 AM   #144
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Riding the sidewalk here in Manila (the Philippines) would be like a technical trail.
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Old 11-22-13, 09:35 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by catonec View Post
Vermont State Law

State law restricts motor vehicles from driving on sidewalks, but

does not prohibit other vehicles (including bicycles). However,
Vermont municipalities may regulate sidewalks (24 VSA § 2291,
as above)

Many Vermont municipalities have exercised this right and have
established laws about sidewalk bicycle riding; some prohibit it,
and some require it. F
or example, Burlington city ordinance
forbids bicyclists over age 16 to ride on the sidewalk. Rutland
requires bicyclists to use the sidewalks along Routes 4 & 7; such
regulations are established at the discretion of the chief of
police. Brandon ordinance makes it unlawful for bicyclists of
any age to ride on sidewalks between the Brandon Inn and the

Town Office; in other areas, bicycles may be ridden on

sidewalks but pedestrians have the right of way.
This is true with most states, there are some states that allow you to ride on sidewalks which is OK. However most of the states with the law forbidding those over 16 from riding on the sidewalk (if not part of a designated bike path) never enforce it. So laws like this should either be enforced or eliminated; keep in mind though that if you are involved in an accident while riding on a sidewalk where it is illegal for you do so you will be held at fault.
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Old 11-22-13, 12:08 PM   #146
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Do you hear yourself talking or you just blab on and on totally numb to reality?
Is necessary to get so rude and personal? Seems like Rob's post was about riding his bicycle down the sidewalk while making a point to slow down and politely announce himself to pedestrians he encounters. To paraphrase, Rob apparently sees that as an opportunity to interact in a positive way with the people in his world. He thanks people, and I just bet may thus bring a little cheer into the lives of some of the lonely or sad people he sees.

You equate that to driving a car down the sidewalk and intentionally crushing pedestrians in your way?

Riding on the sidewalk is a personal decision and for some people includes trade-offs between a number of complicating factors. Those factors may not apply in your geographical area or culture. So give people a little leeway to make a decision that fits their lives and location.
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Old 11-22-13, 08:03 PM   #147
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Is necessary to get so rude and personal? Seems like Rob's post was about riding his bicycle down the sidewalk while making a point to slow down and politely announce himself to pedestrians he encounters. To paraphrase, Rob apparently sees that as an opportunity to interact in a positive way with the people in his world. He thanks people, and I just bet may thus bring a little cheer into the lives of some of the lonely or sad people he sees.

You equate that to driving a car down the sidewalk and intentionally crushing pedestrians in your way?

Riding on the sidewalk is a personal decision and for some people includes trade-offs between a number of complicating factors. Those factors may not apply in your geographical area or culture. So give people a little leeway to make a decision that fits their lives and location.
Gee another bleeding heart; did you not catch what I quoted him as saying? I didn't think so. Here it is again since you missed it completely: Attempts at universal behavior control aside, I will continue to ride on sidewalks where the above applies. The rest of you can choose for yourselves"

He thinks there is a conspiracy going on for universal behavior control. I see you didn't catch that mumbo jumbo of BS.
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Old 11-23-13, 05:01 AM   #148
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You're beyond hope. Maybe your rants keep you from being violent. That's all I can hope because your personal attacks stiful debate and hurt peoples feelings.

Yes, my heart bled some. Now it bleeds more.
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Old 11-23-13, 05:56 AM   #149
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You're beyond hope. Maybe your rants keep you from being violent. That's all I can hope because your personal attacks stiful debate and hurt peoples feelings.

Yes, my heart bled some. Now it bleeds more.
Again you still didn't get the issue involved. Like a lot of Americans, the country is falling apart and no one is noticing, I mention why I said what I said and you don't notice. Blindness, complete and utter blindness.
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Old 11-23-13, 07:00 AM   #150
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Again you still didn't get the issue involved. Like a lot of Americans, the country is falling apart and no one is noticing, I mention why I said what I said and you don't notice. Blindness, complete and utter blindness.
What is it that he is so "blind" to? The country is falling apart because some people don't share your exact views in riding on the sidewalk? Give me a break.
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