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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Not so strange maybe when one includes the whole quote instead of cherry-picking.

    If one willfully creates an avoidable situation where one is likely to get hit, along with the awful consequences thereof, most folks would find that one bears much of the responsibility. I do.

    YMMV,
    Mike
    Wow. Clueless.

    OK, you asked for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    The Texas Hill Country has become a cycling mecca, and ain't unusual to see packs of spandex clad riders willfully ignoring traffic piled up behind while taking up most of the lane.

    Exasperated drivers them find themelves making unsafe passes.

    Whatever the technical legalities may be, it just doesn't make a good impression.

    Mike

    Wow. "packs of spandex clad riders"?!?! What's wrong with that? Or are you one who has no clue why cyclists wear gear like that? Clueless...

    "Exasperated drivers them find themelves making unsafe passes"?!?! You have no idea how that happens? The drivers "find themselves" breaking the law and endangering lives? Wow! It's pure magic!!! Clueless....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Nothing of the sort, of course. I AM going to suggest that you find such shallow and obvious sarcasm to be "clever".

    I am going to further suggest that you yourself find nothing objectional in the spectacle of packs of cyclists holding lines of traffic to speeds below thirty miles per hour along stretches where the normal flow of traffic exceeds fifty.

    For my own part I find common sense and courtesy trump considerations of mere legality every time, and if one IS in such a pack, while not wishing them harm I confess little sympathy if they get run over.

    JMMV.
    Mike
    "spectacle of packs of cyclists holding lines of traffic to speeds below thirty miles per hour along stretches where the normal flow of traffic exceeds fifty." Oh noes!!! The innocent drivers might have to slow down for a bit!

    Just wondering - what do you think of farm equipment moving over highways at 6 mph?

    You might as well argue that "where the normal flow of traffic exceeds fifty" cars should be allowed to ignore stop signs. OMG!!!! Something legally on the road is slowing the cars down when they could be going over fifty!!! The world is ending!!!!

    "For my own part I find common sense and courtesy..." No you don't. Else you wouldn't state that "packs of spandex-clad riders" create a "spectacle".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Not so strange maybe when one includes the whole quote instead of cherry-picking.

    If one willfully creates an avoidable situation where one is likely to get hit, along with the awful consequences thereof, most folks would find that one bears much of the responsibility. I do.

    YMMV,
    Mike
    Clueless again. Because I just made the same arguments including the whole quote.

    Riding in the lane in traffic is actually a helluva lot safer than trying to hug the shoulder. Hug the shoulder in traffic and some impatient, arrogant, ignorant, CLUELESS driver will try to squeeze by.

    Oh noes!!! They might have to wait a precious 10 seconds.

  2. #27
    Senior Member downtube42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Not so strange maybe when one includes the whole quote instead of cherry-picking.

    If one willfully creates an avoidable situation where one is likely to get hit, along with the awful consequences thereof, most folks would find that one bears much of the responsibility. I do.

    YMMV,
    Mike
    I am sorry if I mischaracterized your statement in my quote; it was not my intention. I typically copy the part of the message I'm responding to, attribute the author, with elipses (...) to indicate I removed words; words present in the original quoted post for the world to see. I've seen this done enough to consider it normal. If I'd left out the elipses or removed the attribute, then I think cherry picking might be an appropriate term.

    In the situation you describe, most veteran cyclists including myself would take steps to avoid being struck, up to and including avoiding the road. There is an element of courtesy in the decision, but primarily it's about personal safety.

    However, I think it's dangerous to think of and treat 'traffic' as some immutable force of nature that must be accepted for what it is. Grizzly bears yes, traffic no. It is normal in America for motor vehicle operators to exceed the speed limit, to follow too closely, to change lanes without signaling, to drive while distracted, to take their frustrations out on the road with aggressive behavior. All of these are illegal, and considering the destructive power of the equipment they are operating, highly irresponsible. While I may choose to avoid putting myself in front of people behaving illegally and irresponsibily, I do so just as grudgingly as I allow myself to be patted down at the airport. And yes, I will feel sympathy for someone who chooses to say 'damn the irresponsible bastards, I'm going to ride where I legally can". A touch of admiration, in fact.
    What is bicycle touring?
    "So I kept looking and eventually found that a spark plug had same threads. So I cycled next two days until I got to Jackson, MS with a spark plug instead of right pedal." - mev

  3. #28
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    Because he's arguing you should be forced to ride on the sidewalk.
    Fine. Who is he, just some drunk in a bar or what?

  4. #29
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrabyte View Post
    If it wasn't for cycling clubs lobbying the feds over a century ago for paved roads, these jerks wouldn't have roads to fight over to beg
    in with lol
    LOL is right, if you actually believe that paved roads exist today only because of "cycling clubs lobbying the feds."

  5. #30
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Fine. Who is he, just some drunk in a bar or what?
    Apparently a loud mouth radio pundit.

  6. #31
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    OK, you asked for it.
    Is there an eye-roll icon here?

    "Spandex-clad riders" was merely a descriptor, and an accurate one, in this case characteristic of a certain subset of riders (and note before you go off, "characteristic" does not equate to "exclusive to"). Talk to the MANY folks who complain about 'em and mention of spandex is often included.

    Just wondering - what do you think of farm equipment moving over highways at 6 mph?
    Glad you brought it up. Since a pack of riders occupying a lane at speed well below normal driving speeds constitutes a hazard to most road users at least equivalent to slow moving farm/mowing/contruction equipment (probably more so, as cyclists in a group are less predictable), it would seem reasonable that similar warning devices (dependent upon local laws) in the form of large safety triangles, warning lights and/or chase vehicles should be required.

    Mike
    Last edited by Sharpshin; 11-13-13 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #32
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    In the situation you describe, most veteran cyclists including myself would take steps to avoid being struck, up to and including avoiding the road. There is an element of courtesy in the decision, but primarily it's about personal safety.
    Agreed.

  8. #33
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    I'm more concerned about cyclist-hating cyclists....
    Uh-oh, is this an example of that recent fad wherein stating a dissenting opinion automatically becomes an act of "hate speech"?

  9. #34
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    When forty cyclists get together and block traffic, in my opinion they're being total a**holes. But capital punishment seems like a pretty harsh penalty for being an a**hole. Discussions like this come up pretty often, and the implication always seems to be, "if cyclists are going to inconvenience me, I'm not going to go out of my way to keep from killing them." I'm sure it's usually just big talk in the heat of the moment, but it's still a little alarming to me. No matter how rude people are, I'm pretty sure you're always supposed to make every effort to avoid killing them!

    And that doesn't even apply to this radio show, as far as I can tell. They weren't talking about big groups of cyclists obstructing traffic. They were talking about presumably courteous cyclists using the best paths available to get where they're going. Isn't that right, or did I miss it? As much as I'd hate people to hear people talk about killing me because I was rude, I'd REALLY hate to hear people talk about killing me because someone else was rude!

  10. #35
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    Apparently a loud mouth radio pundit.
    I suppose BF posters now know this alleged loud mouth radio pundit said alleged nasty things because Somebody said so, without posting any reference to where, when or what actually was said. Somehow I feel it is pretty silly to comment about those nasty words when nobody is able to provide the actual source.

  11. #36
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post

    Oh noes!!! They might have to wait a precious 10 seconds.
    You are misrepresenting what is going on. People have places to be and it is extremely rude of cyclists to hinder road traffic when there are many roads in the Hill Country they could select with plenty of room and little traffic. I should know since I live and ride here.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    I suppose BF posters now know this alleged loud mouth radio pundit said alleged nasty things because Somebody said so, without posting any reference to where, when or what actually was said. Somehow I feel it is pretty silly to comment about those nasty words when nobody is able to provide the actual source.
    Apparently spewing against cyclists is a long-running theme for Mr Gallagher

    http://crustylogic.com/2012/07/1133/
    http://crustylogic.com/2011/04/782/
    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/pol...io-246338.html
    http://www.runango.com/forums/topic_show.pl?tid=4334

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    I suppose BF posters now know this alleged loud mouth radio pundit said alleged nasty things because Somebody said so, without posting any reference to where, when or what actually was said. Somehow I feel it is pretty silly to comment about those nasty words when nobody is able to provide the actual source.


    I think you just summed up 90% of the content on world wide web.

    The other 10% is love.......................


    Ok, so I'm lying. The other 10% is porn.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    You are misrepresenting what is going on. People have places to be and it is extremely rude of cyclists to hinder road traffic when there are many roads in the Hill Country they could select with plenty of room and little traffic. I should know since I live and ride here.
    All of us roadway users (including cyclists) have places to be. So what? The other person's Starbucks run does not trump my desire to get to Starbucks... safely.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    All of us roadway users (including cyclists) have places to be. So what? The other person's Starbucks run does not trump my desire to get to Starbucks... safely.
    Cyclists are out for recreation/exercise and can spare thirty seconds to let a few cars by. I should know, I do it all the time. Being courteous is just not that big of a deal. But, that's fine if you people want to continue inflaming drivers against us. There are more of them, they have more political influence, they cry louder, and when they get pissed off it hurts more.

    But you believe you are in the right so keep your nose pointed high.

  16. #41
    Cycle Dallas MMACH 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    Cyclists are out for recreation/exercise and can spare thirty seconds to let a few cars by. I should know, I do it all the time. Being courteous is just not that big of a deal. But, that's fine if you people want to continue inflaming drivers against us. There are more of them, they have more political influence, they cry louder, and when they get pissed off it hurts more.

    But you believe you are in the right so keep your nose pointed high.
    This thread is in the COMMUTING forum. You do realize that, right?
    90% of the time, I'm out for transportation, not recreation. Can the motorists along my route spare ~8 seconds it takes to pass me in a safe manner?
    That's gonna leave a mark.

  17. #42
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Because the presumption is what? That if the trip is on two wheels it's Frivolous, but if it's on four it's Serious?

    Unless the vehicle has lights and a siren I'm not inclined to think their destination is any more important than mine.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  18. #43
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    Got it. People on blogs report what they heard or more likely what they read about that somebody else heard second hand from somewhere. Just like this thread.

    Anybody on this list actually hear the offending words or read a transcript before commenting about this allegedly misguided fellow? Surprise me!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGoodLeg View Post


    I think you just summed up 90% of the content on world wide web.

    The other 10% is love.......................


    Ok, so I'm lying. The other 10% is porn.
    I thought it was the other way around
    http://treadrightly.blogspot.com/

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    Cyclists are out for recreation/exercise and can spare thirty seconds to let a few cars by. I should know, I do it all the time. Being courteous is just not that big of a deal. But, that's fine if you people want to continue inflaming drivers against us. There are more of them, they have more political influence, they cry louder, and when they get pissed off it hurts more.

    But you believe you are in the right so keep your nose pointed high.
    Spoken like a true motorist with mind-reading x-ray vision (including some silly belief about hierarchy). How could my test ride of a new carbon seatpost be any less important than the guy who thinks he's going to get fired for being late to work one last time? Do I really have to yield to him?
    I have the the right as a free person to go from A to B, without the impatient behavior of bullies.

    Do you do the same thing in the grocery store to the little old ladies who are just there to get cat food? Do you expect them to yield to your superior mission to acquire lottery tickets?

    Sorry for the rant... this just seems so obvious to me...

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Got it. People on blogs report what they heard or more likely what they read about that somebody else heard second hand from somewhere. Just like this thread.

    Anybody on this list actually hear the offending words or read a transcript before commenting about this allegedly misguided fellow? Surprise me!
    No, those various blogs are part of a conspiracy to trick you...but oops, you're too clever to fall for it!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Is there an eye-roll icon here?

    "Spandex-clad riders" was merely a descriptor, and an accurate one, in this case characteristic of a certain subset of riders (and note before you go off, "characteristic" does not equate to "exclusive to"). Talk to the MANY folks who complain about 'em and mention of spandex is often included.
    Still clueless.

    You didn't answer the question as to why you use spandex as a pejorative, nor why you used the term "spectacle".

    Nor did you address why cyclists would wear such gear, now did you?



    Glad you brought it up. Since a pack of riders occupying a lane at speed well below normal driving speeds constitutes a hazard to most road users
    WUT?!?!?!?

    Cyclists are HAZARD?!?!?! To WHO?!?!?!

    And you said you needed an eye-roll emoticon to respond to ME?!?! What color is the sky on your planet?

    at least equivalent to slow moving farm/mowing/contruction equipment (probably more so, as cyclists in a group are less predictable), it would seem reasonable that similar warning devices (dependent upon local laws) in the form of large safety triangles, warning lights and/or chase vehicles should be required.

    Mike
    Riiight, because you can't see a "pack" of "spandex-clad" cyclists and the "spectacle" they create.

    Totally ignored the rest of my points, didn't you? Too clueless?

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    Cyclists are out for recreation/exercise and can spare thirty seconds to let a few cars by. I should know, I do it all the time. Being courteous is just not that big of a deal. But, that's fine if you people want to continue inflaming drivers against us. There are more of them, they have more political influence, they cry louder, and when they get pissed off it hurts more.
    Riiiight. Because the car driver is more important.

    But you believe you are in the right so keep your nose pointed high.
    What's that quote about a pot and a kettle?

  24. #49
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief View Post
    Spoken like a true motorist with mind-reading x-ray vision (including some silly belief about hierarchy). How could my test ride of a new carbon seatpost be any less important than the guy who thinks he's going to get fired for being late to work one last time? Do I really have to yield to him?
    I have the the right as a free person to go from A to B, without the impatient behavior of bullies.

    Do you do the same thing in the grocery store to the little old ladies who are just there to get cat food? Do you expect them to yield to your superior mission to acquire lottery tickets?

    Sorry for the rant... this just seems so obvious to me...
    The grocery store example is not relevant. There is always a way to go around as well as communicate your wishes in a civil manner at the grocery store. On the road you are stuck. This is so obvious I don't know why I dignified it with a reply. Keep your nose held high, for you are in the right...until the motorist lobby gets the laws changed and we're proper f****d.

  25. #50
    Senior Member Jiggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achoo View Post
    Riiiight. Because the car driver is more important.

    What's that quote about a pot and a kettle?
    I'm curious where you think this trend of driver hate toward us is going? As I see it, there is only one end - relegation of the status of bicycles to below that of a motor vehicle. So that now the law will force us to yield because we didn't have the courtesy to do it voluntarily.

    But, by all means, keep riding with your nose pointed high and a line of angry cars behind you. There won't be any unintended consequences. No sir, you'll be just fiiiiiiine.

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