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  1. #51
    Senior Member AusTexMurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    They "find themselves making unsafe passes"? Are you suggesting that a mysterious force causes them to lurch into the other lane? Or that they've been drugged? Or hypnotized? Or that their cars have a mechanical issue like the unstoppable Priuses or the suddenly accelerating Audis?

    Or perhaps instead these drivers maintain control of their vehicles and consciously decide to pass even though they know, or ought to know, that they haven't got sufficient room to pass safely, in violation of all common sense and the laws of Texas?

    You are correct that it doesn't make a good impression. These yahoos make all motorists look bad. They really ought to follow the strict letter of the law so as to earn the respect of other road users.
    +1

  2. #52
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    Unless the vehicle has lights and a siren I'm not inclined to think their destination is any more important than mine.
    Doesn't matter, not even a little bit. Compared to say, the real problem faced by many around the world, most ALL of our trips here are sorta irrelevant.

    (Three years living in a remote African village tends to make you think that way).

    All that really matters in our situation is that the person on the bicycle doesn't end up under a vehicle.

    People behave in predictable ways, impatience being one of them. Railing against the injustice of it all make no difference at all. When commuting to and from work (ten miles each way now ) I myself do not particularly care who is right or wrong in any given traffic situation, mostly I just don't want to get hit.

    Mike

  3. #53
    Senior Member AusTexMurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    The Texas Hill Country has become a cycling mecca, and ain't unusual to see packs of spandex clad riders willfully ignoring traffic piled up behind while taking up most of the lane.

    Exasperated drivers them find themelves making unsafe passes.

    Whatever the technical legalities may be, it just doesn't make a good impression.

    Mike
    Lived in the Texas Hill Country area for the past 35+ years.
    It is a cycling mecca.
    Thank you, cyclists, for finding it so.....
    Sorry you are one of those motorists, just finding yourself making unsafe passes.
    Slow down.
    Or, better, Go for a bike ride. Get your car off the road.
    DA.
    TalkRadioHead Troll.

  4. #54
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    Sorry you are one of those motorists, just finding yourself making unsafe passes.
    Slow down.
    Or, better, Go for a bike ride. Get your car off the road.
    There it is..... the problem mindset in a nutshell.

  5. #55
    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    He did go on for a bit that if bike riders want to ride on the roads they should help pay for them. I'm guessing he doesn't know that over 50% of road funding in most states comes from general funds and property taxes.
    Frustrating, on the number of people bringing up the road funding issue, in 2010, the non road user's funding share in our state was almost 70 percent.

  6. #56
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Frustrating, on the number of people bringing up the road funding issue, in 2010, the non road user's funding share in our state was almost 70 percent.
    +1

    Frustrating having to explain that most road expenditures come from the general fund, especially on city streets. So when I commute from my house (property tax) to my job (income tax) so I can buy stuff (sales tax), I am contributing at least my fair share of the upkeep of those streets.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  7. #57
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Doesn't matter, not even a little bit. Compared to say, the real problem faced by many around the world, most ALL of our trips here are sorta irrelevant.

    (Three years living in a remote African village tends to make you think that way).

    All that really matters in our situation is that the person on the bicycle doesn't end up under a vehicle.

    People behave in predictable ways, impatience being one of them. Railing against the injustice of it all make no difference at all. When commuting to and from work (ten miles each way now ) I myself do not particularly care who is right or wrong in any given traffic situation, mostly I just don't want to get hit.

    Mike
    Do you believe that the presence of a cyclist relieves a motorist of the obligation to operate his vehicle safely? This is the inference I am drawing from the bolded statement, but to be fair I am asking the question directly.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  8. #58
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    Do you believe that the presence of a cyclist relieves a motorist of the obligation to operate his vehicle safely?
    If the motorist is not meeting his obligations to operate his or her vehicle safely with respect to myself I suppose one might hope that a police officer sees it and writes that person a ticket. I have never seen this happen when I'm on a bicycle, and only once in more than ten years of riding a motorcycle 365 days a year. On that occasion a driver forced me out of my lane in a merging situation where I had the right of way, a cop behind us saw the whole thing and pulled the lady over.

    If the motorist is not meeting his obligations to operate his or her vehicle safely and I get hit, I suppose one might hope that the violation of the traffic laws leading up to the accident might result in their insurance company providing a somewhat larger settlement to my next of kin or else pay for a bit nicer extended care facility for myself.

    In any event, the smart money says the offending party will basically walk with little long-term effect on their quality of life. Most egregious case we had recently was a guy in a pick-up took out a tandem on the shoulder of a four lane roadway killing both husband and wife. He was aquitted.

    OK, do people have an obligation to operate their vehicles safely? Yes, of course. I do not know what comfort that would be to a crippled me and/or to my next of kin.

    The same principle applies to cyclists; I can't even recall the number of times I've seen cyclists blitz close by pedestrians and slower moving bicycles from behind on park paths and such, apparently because slowing even a little bit is too much trouble.

    Rail against human nature all ya want.

    Mike

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    The grocery store example is not relevant. There is always a way to go around as well as communicate your wishes in a civil manner at the grocery store. On the road you are stuck. This is so obvious I don't know why I dignified it with a reply.
    Of course it is relevant; behavior in any public scenario is relevant. You might be civil in the grocery store, others are bullies. Most road users (motorized & non-motorized) are civil, but the bully behavior gets a lot of attention. If I take the lane in a lawful manner, then I am by definition being civil. But I do appreciate your time to reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiggle View Post
    Keep your nose held high, for you are in the right...until the motorist lobby gets the laws changed and we're proper f****d.
    If I look back at failed attempts to infringe on cycling (like the Black Hawk, CO ban, and various non-start attempts to register bikes in certain municipalities) , I am optimistic that pigs will fly before your fears of any motorist lobby action come true. But that's just me... optimistic that my rights and freedoms will be intact for some time to come.

  10. #60
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    No, those various blogs are part of a conspiracy to trick you...but oops, you're too clever to fall for it!
    No conspiracy needed here on BF, accuracy or even reality is not necessary for BFers to wail and gnash their teeth again and again over imaginary or real (does it make a difference) electronic boogeymen allegedly spouting incorrect bicycling ideology.

  11. #61
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    I ride a bicycle and I drive a car so I have two dogs in this fight. I too, have had packs of bicycles blocking lanes with no regard for anyone but themselves. I've also had homicidal car drivers go out of there way to run me off the shoulder. It's a sign of the times, we need to try and be as courteous as possible, automobile or bicycle

  12. #62
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    No conspiracy needed here on BF, accuracy or even reality is not necessary for BFers to wail and gnash their teeth again and again over imaginary or real (does it make a difference) electronic boogeymen allegedly spouting incorrect bicycling ideology.
    The OP claim is backed up by multiple reports over a ten year span showing Gallagher repeatedly going on anti-cyclist rants, but since it doesn't fit with your automatic assumption that everybody who posts on BF must be making it up, you stubbornly deny the evidence even when it clearly shows you jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your preconceptions.

  13. #63
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    The OP claim is backed up by multiple reports over a ten year span showing Gallagher repeatedly going on anti-cyclist rants, but since it doesn't fit with your automatic assumption that everybody who posts on BF must be making it up, you stubbornly deny the evidence even when it clearly shows you jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your preconceptions.
    Can you provide a single actual quote from the alleged perpetrator of the serial bicycle hating rants? So far nobody has; perhaps you wish to do Google searches for "reports" of the alleged evil doing so freely discussed based only on BFers preconceptions of what a ranter usually rants about.

  14. #64
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Can you provide a single actual quote from the alleged perpetrator of the serial bicycle hating rants? So far nobody has; perhaps you wish to do Google searches for "reports" of the alleged evil doing so freely discussed based only on BFers preconceptions of what a ranter usually rants about.
    Some of those websites I linked to were first person reports of his earlier tirades against bikes. I verified on Gallagher's website that he did a show on bicycling on November 11. I don't see any transcripts online. I suppose, that since you don't intend to acknowledge the OP to be accurate, you can set the bar for "proof" to be too high for anyone to meet, and that way claim to have verified your original prejudices. And if I do find a direct quote or transcript, no doubt you will move the bar again and find some way to discount it.

  15. #65
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    https://www.mikeonlinegold.com/categ...o-show/page/2/

    Looks like it might be available here but I can't listen right now.

  16. #66
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    Some of those websites I linked to were first person reports of his earlier tirades against bikes. I verified on Gallagher's website that he did a show on bicycling on November 11. I don't see any transcripts online. I suppose, that since you don't intend to acknowledge the OP to be accurate, you can set the bar for "proof" to be too high for anyone to meet, and that way claim to have verified your original prejudices. And if I do find a direct quote or transcript, no doubt you will move the bar again and find some way to discount it.
    When someone actually can provide actual quotes that he has first hand read or heard, then a useful dialog could begin. As is, just the usual BF ranting, blowing smoke at their favorite demons.

    Note that the OP provided no info about the nature of Michael G.'S rant. Didn't stop others from responding to the preconceived rants floating around in their imagination. Not until I posted that nobody seems to either know who this guy is or what he said did somebody (You) post some bloggers' references which also did not give any quotes. And yet the wailing and gnashing goes on.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-14-13 at 01:25 PM.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Doesn't matter, not even a little bit. Compared to say, the real problem faced by many around the world, most ALL of our trips here are sorta irrelevant.

    (Three years living in a remote African village tends to make you think that way).

    All that really matters in our situation is that the person on the bicycle doesn't end up under a vehicle.

    People behave in predictable ways, impatience being one of them. Railing against the injustice of it all make no difference at all. When commuting to and from work (ten miles each way now ) I myself do not particularly care who is right or wrong in any given traffic situation, mostly I just don't want to get hit.

    Mike
    So - motorists are making irrelevant trips too, and can therefore afford to slow down for ten seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    When someone actually can provide actual quotes that he has first hand read or heard, then a useful dialog could begin. As is, just the usual BF ranting, blowing smoke at their favorite demons.

    Note that the OP provided no info about the nature of Michael G.'S rant. Didn't stop others from responding to the preconceived rants floating around in their imagination. Not until I posted that nobody seems to either know who this guy is or what he said did somebody (You) post some bloggers' references which also did not give any quotes. And yet the wailing and gnashing goes on.
    And you aren't wailing and gnashing against us wailers and gnashers at all, no sirree! You just love to post that a thread has no meaning, don't you? Next time, try ignoring it and let us get on with our wailing and gnashing in peace.
    http://treadrightly.blogspot.com/

  18. #68
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    So - motorists are making irrelevant trips too, and can therefore afford to slow down for ten seconds?
    Who is right, wrong, afford, not afford, good, evil, legal, illegal is pretty much irrelevant.

    Any time you slow people up for whatever reason impatience will be a predictable response in many. This applies equally to semis, buses, pick-ups, cars, motorcycles, bicycles and even kids hurrying down the hallway between classes.

    Collisions sometimes happen. If you wish to put yourself on a bicycle in the roadway with your back turned towards two to thirty thousand pound motorized vehicles often driven by impatient drivers travelling ten to fifty miles an hour faster than you because, after all, the drivers can afford to slow down for ten seconds you are free to do so.

    In fact, if you wish to dwell upon the injustice of it all while you ride you can do that too.

    For my own part mostly I strive to avoid being run over, this frequently involves stopping/yielding the right of way for some short periods of time.

    YMMV,
    Mike

  19. #69
    Senior Member AusTexMurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    There it is..... the problem mindset in a nutshell.
    You already spelled out the problem, in a nutshell:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpshin View Post
    Exasperated drivers them find themelves making unsafe passes.
    Easy, as you pointed out to us all. Auto drivers don't own the road. They shouldn't be making unsafe passes.
    What can we hope to change in the system, to address this problem ?

  20. #70
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    It is a cycling mecca.
    Thank you, cyclists, for finding it so.....
    Sorry you are one of those motorists, just finding yourself making unsafe passes.
    Slow down.
    Or, better, Go for a bike ride. Get your car off the road.
    Forty riders in a pack, tying up a Hill Country Road, all having THAT mindet?

    Like I said, there it is, in a nutshell.

    If people like that radio (??) host Gallagher find a responsive audience it because they strike a popular chord, not with evil inconsiderate people but the rank and file who are sick and tired of packs of cyclists creating slow-moving hazards in the roadway with a mindset that if the car drivers dont like it they should "go for a bike ride, get their car off the road".

    I figure the only reason it is STILL legal for cyclists to tie up roadways this way is because it hasn't been adressed yet, otherwise they'd be required to follow the same protocols as any other slow moving hazard using public highways.

    What can we hope to change in the system, to address this problem ?
    The part I'm referring to?

    Easy, not tie up roadways with slow moving packs of recreational cyclists.

    If you ARE in such a pack, recognise common courtesy and move over, off the roadway if necesary to let faster traffic by (I do this routinely, and somehow STILL have a nice ride. Go figure.)

    At all cost avoid the idiot mindset that those drivers can and should wait, dammit! All the while anteing up your own self as a traffic code enforcement crash barrier.

    In fact anyone cruising down the highway like that really oughta 'go for a car ride, get their bikes off of the road'.


    JMHO,
    Mike
    Last edited by Sharpshin; 11-15-13 at 10:48 AM.

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