Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-16-13, 02:16 PM   #1
tcs
Palmer
Thread Starter
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,705
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Bicycling magazine & Hal Ruzal test locks

Hmph - the battery in his angle grinder died before he got through a hardened chain (3+ minutes). Otherwise, no major surprises.

Video
Story


(Sorry if this has been posted - I tried 'search' and didn't come up with anything.)
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 01:43 AM   #2
Turtle Speed
happy bike wishes
 
Turtle Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interesting, thanks for the link!

This is the first real-world scenarios I've seen with the TiGr lock, and I had a feeling it sounded too good to be true.

Thank goodness the theft situation in most places isn't as dire as in the video. Where I live, a decent-quality U-lock puts you head and shoulders above the competition, especially when there are adjacent $1,000 bikes locked with cables.

I think I remember reading at one university that about half of bike theft was unlocked bikes, half was bikes with cables, and only 2% of stolen bikes had U-locks. And of those U's, I'm guessing probably most were lower-end ones. I don't know of those stats are correct (or apply everywhere), but it roughly correlates to what I see around me. People in Chicago seem to be trusting U's a lot, even leaving wheels unlocked. And people who ride as their jobs in much worse crime areas than me say that bikes that are locked with high-quality U's or chains don't really get messed with

So I'm not that much more paranoid after seeing the video. I'll keep my hardened chain on the shelf unless I know I'll need to lock overnight or to something of unusual size.
Turtle Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 02:54 AM   #3
Ghost Ryder
Ghost Ryding 24/7
 
Ghost Ryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Canada/604
Bikes: Giant Defy with Dura Ace group, & Ksyrium SL's,Specialized Allez Shimano mixed/mashed,2011 Opus Sentiero,2008 Kona Jake the Snake,Custom built track/fixed,Stumpy Hartail,Kuwahara/ET bike.
Posts: 2,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just read this article earlier today @ the market.
Thanks for the video.
Ghost Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 08:29 AM   #4
tcs
Palmer
Thread Starter
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,705
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
I thought it was interesting they claim to cut (with an angle grinder) through two 18mm hardened steel shackles on a Kryptonite NY-FU Mini in under a minute (other testers have taken twice as long), but can't cut a chain with 10mm hardened steel links before the battery poops out (3+ minutes).

Also, other testers in the past had little trouble compromising lower spec Abus Bordo locks with hand tools, but Mr. Ruzal couldn't. Perhaps Abus has improved this product?

Last edited by tcs; 11-17-13 at 08:33 AM.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 08:42 AM   #5
erig007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
Bikes:
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
I thought it was interesting they claim to cut (with an angle grinder) through two 18mm hardened steel shackles on a Kryptonite NY-FU Mini in under a minute (other testers have taken twice as long), but can't cut a chain with 10mm hardened steel links before the battery poops out (3+ minutes).

Also, other testers in the past had little trouble compromising lower spec Abus Bordo locks with hand tools, but Mr. Ruzal couldn't. Perhaps Abus has improved this product?
A chain is flexible so hard to grab an ulock is rigid and easy to hold especially with a clamp like shown in the video
You've just noticed how the skill of the guy who cut matter. I doubt that it is the abus lock that magically improved

Last edited by erig007; 11-17-13 at 08:46 AM.
erig007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 08:52 AM   #6
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Orangevale CA
Bikes: '76 Paramount, 02 Hardrock, '98 C'Dale XR800, '04 Burley Samba, '15 Priority Classic
Posts: 5,849
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
I thought it was interesting they claim to cut (with an angle grinder) through two 18mm hardened steel shackles on a Kryptonite NY-FU Mini in under a minute (other testers have taken twice as long), but can't cut a chain with 10mm hardened steel links before the battery poops out (3+ minutes).

Also, other testers in the past had little trouble compromising lower spec Abus Bordo locks with hand tools, but Mr. Ruzal couldn't. Perhaps Abus has improved this product?
What I noticed is that there were a lot of attack demonstrations that only made it into the video as two-second clips, including one against that lock with a crowbar. Wonder how that turned out?
Darth Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 09:04 AM   #7
erig007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
Bikes:
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
What I noticed is that there were a lot of attack demonstrations that only made it into the video as two-second clips, including one against that lock with a crowbar. Wonder how that turned out?
Here the abus bordo granit x-plus cut with a hacksaw.
Also in this video a kryptonite evolution and spybike tracking system tested (or i would say...defeated)


Last edited by erig007; 11-17-13 at 09:42 AM.
erig007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 09:21 AM   #8
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Orangevale CA
Bikes: '76 Paramount, 02 Hardrock, '98 C'Dale XR800, '04 Burley Samba, '15 Priority Classic
Posts: 5,849
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Also, this author is not an engineer:

Quote:
...the steel (which replaced iron) in the locks was rounded, becoming smooth, dense, and heavy. Idly biceps-curling the New York Legend chain, I feel a jolt of exertion in my neck. The best locks feature highly dense steel...
Darth Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 09:43 AM   #9
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Orangevale CA
Bikes: '76 Paramount, 02 Hardrock, '98 C'Dale XR800, '04 Burley Samba, '15 Priority Classic
Posts: 5,849
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
This story on the Bicycling site is related and has more detail

http://www.bicycling.com/news/featur...e-locks-broken

Last edited by Darth Lefty; 11-17-13 at 09:46 AM.
Darth Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 10:48 AM   #10
tcs
Palmer
Thread Starter
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,705
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
A chain is flexible so hard to grab an ulock is rigid and easy to hold especially with a clamp like shown in the video...
Clamping a u-lock in a bench vice is a good deal less realistic as a theft scenario than duct taping a chain down to hold it still while it is being power cut. In any event, I think a cordless angle grinder is the wrong tool for compromising security chains: cheaper, quieter, just as portable.

Quote:
You've just noticed how the skill of the guy who cut matter. I doubt that it is the abus lock that magically improved
As a design engineer who has spent 35 years in factories, I can assure you product improvement is not 'magic'.

Last edited by tcs; 11-17-13 at 10:55 AM.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 11:52 AM   #11
peterw_diy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 336
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Years ago, Bicycling actually employed engineering to their reviews -- for instance, they used machines to measure frame/BB stiffness. Now... they have writers that don't understand the relationship between Fe and steel? I wish I were surprised.
peterw_diy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-13, 11:53 AM   #12
erig007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
Bikes:
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Clamping a u-lock in a bench vice is a good deal less realistic as a theft scenario than duct taping a chain down to hold it still while it is being power cut. In any event, I think a cordless angle grinder is the wrong tool for compromising security chains: cheaper, quieter, just as portable.
What i meant is that in this video Hal tested the ulocks in perfect condition using a clamp to hold the ulock on a nice table etc... not very realistic. Hal by saying that good chains are his favorite choice ended up with the same result that i've found years ago from many youtube videos (now removed) where you could see thieves attacking locks for real spending 20 min or so just trying to hold them in their hands. I'm not talking about videos with locks on the ground or in clamps but on a bike in real conditions with people passing by where the thief has to check every second who is passing by etc..Those videos have been removed since.
Art rating is implying the same thing by giving more stars to chains than ulocks. Why do you think i went for a 19mm hardened chain and the strongest abloy padlock instead of a 18mm kryptonite ulock?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
As a design engineer who has spent 35 years in factories, I can assure you product improvement is not 'magic'.
What i meant by magic is the fact that you start from a design and make small improvements from time to time but unless it is magic, you are a genius or lucky you don't make a weak design becoming one day better than strong designs. Art rate the abus bordo xplus 2 stars, good chains are rated 5 stars and cable locks 1 star that must means something.

Last edited by erig007; 11-17-13 at 01:02 PM.
erig007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-13, 05:46 AM   #13
Turtle Speed
happy bike wishes
 
Turtle Speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 264
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Here the abus bordo granit x-plus cut with a hacksaw.
Took 8 minutes, so I was happy to see it lasted so long!
Turtle Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-13, 06:20 AM   #14
tcs
Palmer
Thread Starter
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,705
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle Speed View Post
This is the first real-world scenarios I've seen with the TiGr lock, and I had a feeling it sounded too good to be true.
Here is the TiGr test video mentioned in the Bicycling article.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-13, 09:06 AM   #15
tcs
Palmer
Thread Starter
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts unknown
Bikes:
Posts: 4,705
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Kryptonite sez a NY-FU Mini weighs ~2kg (4.5 pounds). A quick 'net check suggests one meter of 19mm security chain weighs around 6.3kg (~14 pounds) and an Abloy 362 adds another 1.4kg (3 pounds).

Quote:
Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Why do you think i went for a 19mm hardened chain and the strongest abloy padlock instead of a 18mm kryptonite ulock?
You're in training for some kind of competitive event?

Last edited by tcs; 11-18-13 at 09:15 AM.
tcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-13, 10:36 AM   #16
MNTC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes: 1991 Eddie Merckx Corsa, 1991 Cannondale 3.0 Road Race, 2008 Bianchi Pista
Posts: 212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
I thought it was interesting they claim to cut (with an angle grinder) through two 18mm hardened steel shackles on a Kryptonite NY-FU Mini in under a minute (other testers have taken twice as long), but can't cut a chain with 10mm hardened steel links before the battery poops out (3+ minutes).
I was surprised by the chain's resilience as well. I recently worked at a place where I would cut abandoned/illegally parked bikes' locks and never had to spend more than a minute getting through typical u-locks and chains. I'll have to look into these chains they tested, maybe they are really that much more secure than the other options.
The grinder blade makes a very large difference though. Thinner blades will cut through a lock much more quickly than thicker ones, with the caveat of wearing out faster and being much more likely to shatter in use.
MNTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-13, 11:13 AM   #17
erig007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
Bikes:
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Kryptonite sez a NY-FU Mini weighs ~2kg (4.5 pounds). A quick 'net check suggests one meter of 19mm security chain weighs around 6.3kg (~14 pounds) and an Abloy 362 adds another 1.4kg (3 pounds).



You're in training for some kind of competitive event?
You get used to it and being over 200 pounds on an heavy bike, the weight of the security chain is not too high relatively to the total weight. It is just noticeable when i try to carry my bike and on hills. The rear wheel where my chain is doesn't live the ground when i try to lift my bike. It's kind of funny. All i do is lifting the front wheel. It's just impossible without using both hands or adding extra weight on the front.
Something like this:



rather than this



Hopefully, nobody saw it the few time i tried

Last edited by erig007; 11-18-13 at 11:31 AM.
erig007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:43 AM.