Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 65 of 65

Thread: Black Ice

  1. #51
    Senior Member JReade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    1,186
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Black ice here in Florida is when a rain occurs on hot asphalt. The rain brings the oils from the asphalt and droppings from leaky vehicles to the surface of the pavement. This creates what we call black ice as the surface of the asphalt is as slick as ice until enough rain falls to wash clean the pavement.

    Well, I've never heard that before.
    Jesse

  2. #52
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    My Bikes
    Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
    Posts
    11,636
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    But the blanket statement that cars are curling rocks everywhere simply isn't true. Where I ride, for example, winter tyres for cars are mandatory, and a lot of car drivers use specifically studded winter tyres, for the exact same reasons.

    --J
    Studded tires on cars are illegal in the US. Apparently reducing wear on the road surface is more important than reducing accidents. They're probably illegal on bikes too but I don't really care.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  3. #53
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,573
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Studded tires on cars are illegal in the US. Apparently reducing wear on the road surface is more important than reducing accidents. They're probably illegal on bikes too but I don't really care.
    With the exception of Wisconsin and Puerto Rico and with some seasonal restrictions, they are allowed in the other 49 states, according to AAA
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  4. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle, NY
    My Bikes
    too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
    Posts
    20,957
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    With the exception of Wisconsin and Puerto Rico and with some seasonal restrictions, they are allowed in the other 49 states, according to AAA
    +1, in most states, studded tires are legal during the winter months, though in some, are illegal otherwise, ie. April - Oct, or something.
    FB
    Chain-L site

    An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

    “Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

    “One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

    WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.

  5. #55
    Seņior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    My Bikes
    Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
    Posts
    11,636
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    With the exception of Wisconsin and Puerto Rico and with some seasonal restrictions, they are allowed in the other 49 states, according to AAA
    Many only with rubber studs. What the heck is a rubber stud? Google isn't helping me.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  6. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,262
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Many only with rubber studs. What the heck is a rubber stud? Google isn't helping me.
    It's a stud. Made of rubber. Really. They work nearly as well as carbide studs, and dont' damage the pavement. Also, modern studless snows work better than studs almost all the time. The remaining exception is icy surfaces (not snowy) when the temperature is right around freezing. Colder than about 20 F, studs don't bite ice any better than rubber, and really cold, rubber wins. That's cars and light trucks, bikes are different, because the pressures are so different.

  7. #57
    derailleurs are overrated bigbenaugust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    KIGX
    My Bikes
    2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, 2012 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno SSCX
    Posts
    1,735
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    With the exception of Wisconsin and Puerto Rico and with some seasonal restrictions, they are allowed in the other 49 states, according to AAA
    snow tires in Puerto Rico. I wonder why they are illegal there?

    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    The freezing rain...and that what this was...sucked what little heat in the pavement out and froze to the ground quickly. It would have also dropped the air temp rapidly because water has a higher heat capacity than air does. You'd have to provide a mechanism by which water near the freezing point could fall though a column of air, hit the ground and freeze without decreasing the temperature of the air column. That violates a couple of important thermodynamic laws which have never been violated before. Ever.
    In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
    --Ben
    Carrboro Bike Coalition - putting the "bike" in "CARrboro" :)
    2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX
    Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014)
    Current Linux Usage (by machine): Arch: I openSUSE: III

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,362
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dscheidt View Post
    It's a stud. Made of rubber. Really. They work nearly as well as carbide studs, and dont' damage the pavement. Also, modern studless snows work better than studs almost all the time. The remaining exception is icy surfaces (not snowy) when the temperature is right around freezing. Colder than about 20 F, studs don't bite ice any better than rubber, and really cold, rubber wins. That's cars and light trucks, bikes are different, because the pressures are so different.
    Having ridden studs on ice (and driven them in a car) on ice, I don't agree. The argument is that the studs are not as effective on dry pavement and that's an issue because you don't have ice 100% covering the surface.

    Around here (Minnesota) it gets plenty cold and where I live, it's not unusual to have ice covered roads for weeks at a time. Studs (carbide) work great. Rubber does not.

    J.

  9. #59
    Mad bike riding scientist cyccommute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Denver, CO
    My Bikes
    Some silver ones, a black one, a red one, an orange one and a couple of titanium ones
    Posts
    15,573
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    Many only with rubber studs. What the heck is a rubber stud? Google isn't helping me.
    That's new one on me too. I hate studded car tires (almost as much as I hate studded bicycle tires), especially the ones that are being run in July in Colorado. We allow them all year long which tears the crap out of our roads.
    Stuart Black
    Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
    Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
    Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
    Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
    An Good Ol' Fashion Appalachian Butt Whoopin'.

  10. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    PA
    My Bikes
    Lynskey R340, Easy Motion Max 700+ PCS, Surly Moonlander, Santa Cruise Tallboy
    Posts
    65
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    That's new one on me too. I hate studded car tires (almost as much as I hate studded bicycle tires), especially the ones that are being run in July in Colorado. We allow them all year long which tears the crap out of our roads.
    Here in PA from what I remember studded tires are only allowed Nov-April. However, my biggest complaint is not the studs, its how much UNNEEDED LIGUID SALT is put on the roads! Not only does it ruin our roads (probably more than studs) but what it does to our vehicles, and the environment. I just put studded tires on my bike yesterday as I commute in the evenig and back into the wee hours of the morning. The rolling resistance is more but I will take it!

  11. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,262
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Having ridden studs on ice (and driven them in a car) on ice, I don't agree.

    J.
    You can disagree all you want. The actual performance data, though, is clear. Top quality studless tires are better, except on ice, in a very narrow range of temperatures, centered on freezing. Twenty years ago, that wasn't true, but technology has improved.

    The things that racers use on frozen lakes are different, with much longer spikes. They work, but destroy pavement.

  12. #62
    Sprinter linus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    1,068
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
    Black Ice is a real problem for cars (out of control when you're in front of them on your bike) and I've had a few close calls on my bike too!
    Anyone else have issues with black ice?

    No reading comprehension fail here, the OP did ask if anyone else had "issues" with black ice, leaving the subject wide open.
    Q. Anyone else have issues with black ice?
    A. Studded tires.


  13. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,362
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dscheidt View Post
    You can disagree all you want. The actual performance data, though, is clear. Top quality studless tires are better, except on ice, in a very narrow range of temperatures, centered on freezing. Twenty years ago, that wasn't true, but technology has improved.

    The things that racers use on frozen lakes are different, with much longer spikes. They work, but destroy pavement.
    Being an engineer, I get data. Being an engineer, I also get how data doesn't always match reality. I've ridden studded tires on ice from above freezing to near zero fahrenheit and there is little difference in how they grab (always good). I also live in a climate where we get major ice from November until April and where we get *real* black ice on the roads from car exhaust because it's too cold for salt or calcium chloride to work. If studded tires were allowed here, we'd all be using them on our cars as well as snowmobiles (for those of us that have then, I don't).

    There is a difference if you have perfectly flat ice - think ice skating rink - but that isn't what icy roads or trails are like.

    J.

  14. #64
    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    25 miles northwest of Boston
    My Bikes
    Bottecchia Sprint
    Posts
    12,087
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
    I think all of you are missing a central point to BicycleCrazy's post. Studs on your bike can make riding a bicycle in ice conditions ("black ice" is an over used term) possible. But studs do nothing for the cars that are around you. They don't even make it easier to get out of the way.

    When it 'frizzles' (freezing drizzle) around here, it's time to take drive or take the bus. Being the 8 ball in a game of automobile billiards isn't good for preserving your 3rd dimension. Snow? I'll ride. Frizzle? Nope.
    right
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  15. #65
    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    481
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is why, during the winter, I only ride on paths that are physically segregated with something likely to stop a car that's sliding my way (curb, parked cars, ditch, etc). I just do not trust people driving 4000 pound cars to pay attention, let alone drive safely in the winter. I won't put my life in their hands.

    And I put Marathon studded tyres on my bike to help protect me from me.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •